Bulking Diet FINALLY (critique greatly appriciated)

ST240 · 10-15-2005, 12:51 PM

After finally getting back into the whole routine of training for the most part after the summer, I compiled this diet over several days. My stats are 5'8", 140 lbs (i was 160 lbs 4 months ago

damn framing). I hope this is better than my last bulking diet which consisted of mass gainer shakes, brown bread and tuna

. Anyways here goes (totals are in grams):

Meal 1

Multivitamin
6 eggs (only 2 yolks)
0.66 cup of oatmeal uncooked
1 cup skim milk
2 fish caps
2 tbsp ground flaxseed

Protein 44 | Carbs 46 | Fat 25

Meal 2

Sandwich
-can of chunk light tuna
-2 pieces of sprouted grain bread
-lettuce
-1 tbsp mayo
0.25 cup of peanuts
carrots/celery

Protein 37 | Carbs 38 | Fat 31

Meal 3

1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
8 oz 95% lean ground beef
0.5 avocado
steamed veggies (broccoli, carrots, asparagus)

Protein 48 | Carbs 43 | Fat 27

Meal 4

Some kind of home cooked meal

Protein ~40 | Carbs ~40 | Fat ~15

Meal 5 (PWO)

1.5 cups skim milk
2 scoops of whey
~50 ml of dextrose? (if you know what weight in g this is tell me

)
5 g creatine

Protein 57 | Carbs 62 | Fat 4

Meal 6 (PPWO)

1 medium yam or sweet potato
med chicken breast
large salad
1 tbsp olive oil
2 tbsp hemp seeds

Protein 43 | Carbs 39 | Fat 24

Which combines to a daily total of:

Protein 269 | Carbs 278 | Fat 126

Which yields a grand total of 4417 calories in a 37/37/26 respective breakdown.

I was thinking of adding a banana to the PWO shake but i loved the perfect ratio so i left it alone. Keep in mind im not a diet expert

. What do you guys think? Any opinions welcome.

Edit: Keep in mind my metabolism is very fast. i probably won't even put on a ponch with this diet.

LAM · 10-15-2005, 12:58 PM

don't use milk in your PWO shake use only water and/or juice(s).

other than that it looks pretty solid

ST240 · 10-15-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

don't use milk in your PWO shake use only water and/or juice(s).

other than that it looks pretty solid

not even skim

?

rgrmike74 · 10-15-2005, 01:31 PM

i have read alot bout not useing milk in your shakes.. what is the reason? skim milk in my shakes is bout the only way to make them taste good enough to finish

Hlanderr · 10-15-2005, 02:55 PM

correct me if im wrong, but for some reason I thought milk slowed down protein metabolism...
maybe im thinking about something else? i might be talking out of my ass.... im pretty hungover! hah

LAM · 10-15-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

not even skim

?

nope. milk is not an optimum liquid to use for the PWO shake. the caesin in the milk will bond with the whey causing it to be digested at a much slower rate. PWO you want those amino acids to get to your bloodstream ASAP to start the repair process.

ST240 · 10-15-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

nope. milk is not an optimum liquid to use for the PWO shake. the caesin in the milk will bond with the whey causing it to be digested at a much slower rate. PWO you want those amino acids to get to your bloodstream ASAP to start the repair process.

alright well i think ill just switch to plain ol' water then...

ST240 · 10-15-2005, 04:44 PM

Oh, yeah and another thing... I was thinking of replacing the ground flax with ground almonds in meal 1 (ground almonds on oats proved to be quite tasty

). Are there any restrictions to the kinds of nuts you should eat (im referring to the peanuts here too). Just your average roasted/salted is ok? Blanched isnt too appealing

.

**Emma-Leigh** · 10-15-2005, 07:05 PM

Gaahhhh... Milk is good PWO!!! Don't listen to the myths!!

To re-post some other posts I have made:

Quote:

Actually milk is great PWO and it is due to not only an ability to rapidly increase insulin secretion, but also because of the unique combination of protein fractions (both caesin and whey).

And yes, milk will actually increase insulin substantially - you have to remember that insulin release and glycaemic index are not always related.

So, although it has a low GI (that is, it has a slow release of GLUCOSE into the blood - mainly because once the lactose is digested in the intestines, half of the carbohydrate content is galactose, and this needs to be processed to glucose in the liver before it is released into the blood) it actually has a very high Insulin index (II).

Milk has a high II because of the unique combination of amino acids (especially the high content of BCAAs) and glucose/carbohydrates. For some reason (most of which is unknown) these things act synergistically. This is also one of the reasons why whey protein also causes an increase in insulin levels - because of the high content of BCAAs.

But if you think about it logically, having milk reacti like this is, in terms of evolution, a very sensible thing to do.

As an infant/baby, you want to grow - and what better to grow than a good dose of insulin combined with an adequate mix of carbohydrates and protein!

So you have an 'instant' hit of energy and nutrient uptake (caused by the glucose component of the lactose when combined with the whey fraction of the milk protein which then act to cause a marked increase in insulin)... But then you do not want your meal to 'dissapear' from the blood too quickly (you want to provide a continuous stimulus for growth) therefore you add in a slower fraction of glucose (galactose) and a slower, anti-catabolic protein fraction (casein).

Milk does not slow the digestion of whey by any great length and the time frame is hardly relavant to anyone who has ensured that they have had a good pre-workout meal.

The milk contains different suspensions of protein. Casein is one. Whey is another. Just because the casein settles in the stomach doesn't mean the whey does as well - infact the vast majority of the whey fraction continues in the liquid fraction of the meal into the small intestine where it is absorbed without any delay.

If you REALLY did not want to delay the absorption of the whey then you would have to take it on an completely empty stomach/intestines - which means you would have to not eat for about 8 to 12 hrs....

There have also been HEAPS of threads on the topic... Do a search!... But here are a few of them:
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=36488 (Post Workout Whey)
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=47740 (Water or Milk?)

Now.... I have been saying that milk is great for PWO for YEARS now... But if you do not believe me... Try to take a look at some of the latest research coming out about optimal PWO nutrition (S. Phillips, Tipton... etc etc)!!

International whey conference This presentation by Dr Phillips states "Bottom Line
SYNTHESIS: WHY = MIX > CAS
BREAKDOWN: CAS = MIX > WHY
OXIDATION: WHY > MIX > CAS
BALANCE: MIX > WHY = CAS
A MIXTURE OF WHEY AND CASEIN MAY PROVIDE AN OPTIMAL BLEND OF PROTEINS TO SUPPORT PROTEIN ACCRETION IN MUSCLE AS A RESULT OF RESISTANCE EXERCISE"

From This t-nation article There is this info "—Research is underway to determine which mix of whey-casein: 100% whey, 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 or 100% casein best improves protein retention after 80% 1RM whole-body resistance exercise. So far (4 subjects), the casein seems to provide a bit higher BCAA and leucine-specific responses in the blood at the 60-minute mark. Watch for protein powder manufacturers to jump all over this research as they design their products next year...."

There is also this article which just states that whey and casein both can help:

Quote:

Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.
Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children and Department of Surgery, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX
PURPOSE: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two different intact proteins after resistance exercise. METHODS: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups. Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein (CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. CONCLUSIONS: Acute ingestion of both whey protein and casein after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

Anyway.... To your diet.

1. Too much protein - at your weight you do not need 269g protein. I would stick with something closer to the 210-240g mark.
2. I would add some more carbs....
3. I would probably cap fats at ~20g a meal....
4. I would add some fruit

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

Meal 1
Multivitamin
6 eggs (only 2 yolks)
0.66 cup of oatmeal uncooked
1 cup skim milk
2 fish caps
2 tbsp ground flaxseed

Protein 44 | Carbs 46 | Fat 25

Looks good. I would dump ~ 5g of fat and add a little more carb instead.

Quote:

Meal 2
Sandwich
-can of chunk light tuna
-2 pieces of sprouted grain bread
-lettuce
-1 tbsp mayo
0.25 cup of peanuts
carrots/celery

Protein 37 | Carbs 38 | Fat 31

Looks fine. Once again, LOTS of fats here... I would add a little more carb too (eg: a peice of fruit)

Quote:

Meal 3

1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
8 oz 95% lean ground beef
0.5 avocado
steamed veggies (broccoli, carrots, asparagus)

Protein 48 | Carbs 43 | Fat 27

Good... (once again with the fats).
Decrease protein. 8oz is too much meat for someone 50 pounds heavier than you....

Quote:

Meal 4

Some kind of home cooked meal

Protein ~40 | Carbs ~40 | Fat ~15

LOL... Fine.

Quote:

Meal 5 (PWO)

1.5 cups skim milk
2 scoops of whey
~50 ml of dextrose? (if you know what weight in g this is tell me

)
5 g creatine

Protein 57 | Carbs 62 | Fat 4

WAY too much protein and not enough carb... Decrease your protein to ~45g (0.33 x your weight) at a maximum. In reality, 0.25g/pound is enough (35g).

Leave the milk.

And for dextrose there is 76g of carbs in 1/3 of a cup... (roughly 1g of carb per ml volume). So 2 tbs ~ 30g carbs.

Quote:

Meal 6 (PPWO)

1 medium yam or sweet potato
med chicken breast
large salad
1 tbsp olive oil
2 tbsp hemp seeds

Protein 43 | Carbs 39 | Fat 24

I would decrease protein and add more carbs here. Fat could come down slightly.

Quote:

Which combines to a daily total of:

Protein 269 | Carbs 278 | Fat 126

Which yields a grand total of 4417 calories in a 37/37/26 respective breakdown.

As I said above, decrease protein slightly and increase carbs slightly. Fat can stay where it is if you like.

Quote:

I was thinking of adding a banana to the PWO shake but i loved the perfect ratio so i left it alone. Keep in mind im not a diet expert

. What do you guys think? Any opinions welcome.

Add the banana.

What about:
1 cup milk (12g carb, 8g protein)
1 med. banana (28g carb)
30g whey (~25g protein)
30g dextrose (30g carb)
5g creatine
TOTAL = 70g carb, 33g protein

Quote:

Edit: Keep in mind my metabolism is very fast. i probably won't even put on a ponch with this diet.

If this is the case then you certainly want to increase your carbs... Protein is NOT going to work for you!!

In regards to the nuts - walnuts are the best. Almonds are ok, but they are not going to give you the omega-3 fats that linseeds will give you.

The best nuts are walnuts and almonds. Pecans are ok too... Peanuts (not a real nut... but anyway) are fine - but they are higher in saturated fats and carbs than some of your other nuts. Cashews are also high in carbs and sat. fats.

The others are ok... I would stay clear of macadamia's (saturated fats) and hazelnuts (poor fat ratio).

ST240 · 10-15-2005, 08:47 PM

Wow thats a lot of info. Thanks a lot Emma-Leigh. If it's any consolation i thought 8 oz. of beef was too much too lol. Ill make those changes then. So i guess ill leave the milk in there cuz it makes the shake that much more enjoyable

. Btw does that PWO shake have to be consumed immediately after the workout? Or can it wait until i get home (~20 min) and make it there?

You got me confused about the whole nut/seed thing now

i thought almonds were pretty good and i donno if linseeds will tastes as good as almonds do in my oatmeal haha.

Hlanderr · 10-15-2005, 11:19 PM

I've heard it's best to take your protein/carbs IMMEDIATELY after lifting.
Like, as your walking away from your last set if possible.... hahah well maybe a drink of water might be refreshing first....

I drive to the gym I'm go to and I always bring my shake with me, and I'm drinking it within a few minutes after my last set in my car on my ride back.

Not sure where I heard that from, but I think the general idea is to have it as soon as you can...

Hlanderr · 10-16-2005, 04:47 PM

bump for interest

LAM · 10-16-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Gaahhhh... Milk is good PWO!!! Don't listen to the myths!!

if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?

lnvanry · 10-16-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?

w/ that theory then LAM....would it be better to have the milk (caesin protein) w/ protein shakes right before bedtime to get a slow steady "stash" of slow digesting protein?

**Emma-Leigh** · 10-16-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

if it is a myth why is that not ONE single performance test lab recommends using caesin post WO ?

A lot of the research is only just beginning to be circulated now... Did you read the articles I linked above? (especially the presentation by Phillips). The information is plain to see.

The reason why no one is using it yet is because everyone has the same resistance to change - the current 'whey only' theory is so ingrained that it is going to take time. It is the same idea behind the whole 'food pyramid' thing or the 'fats are bad' thing. People are slow on the uptake.

But you wait - with the research that is coming out now, it will not be long before people will be using the information and suggesting a mix of protein fractions PWO.

**Emma-Leigh** · 10-16-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

w/ that theory then LAM....would it be better to have the milk (caesin protein) w/ protein shakes right before bedtime to get a slow steady "stash" of slow digesting protein?

Yes - it is a well known fact that casein at night is a good thing... Whey, not as much... But casein, yes.

If you want further benefits adding some fibre and/or fats would also help to slow digestion.

ST240 · 10-16-2005, 06:41 PM

is it ok to take my pwo shake when i get home or should i do it at the gym?

thajeepster · 10-16-2005, 07:36 PM

my calc's (269g+278g) x 4 + 126g x 9 = 3322 cals not 4417 and that would be a 32p/33c/34f isocaloric diet.

thajeepster · 10-16-2005, 07:36 PM

sorry, btw

, im kindof a math freak .... lol

ST240 · 10-16-2005, 10:24 PM

errrrrrrrr. isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?

Edit: Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL. Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot. Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.

iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...

ST240 · 10-16-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thajeepster

sorry, btw

, im kindof a math freak .... lol

Believe me, im an engineering student. Math is my best friend whether i like it or not.

**Emma-Leigh** · 10-16-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

errrrrrrrr. isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?

Edit: Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL. Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot. Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.

iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...

LOL - No:
Protein and carbs = 4 cals/gram
fat = 9 cals/gram

thajeepster · 10-17-2005, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

errrrrrrrr. isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs?

Edit: Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL. Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot. Guess ill have to be switching shit up then.

iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...

have you been on this diet for a while? are you gaining on it? If so, stick with it. If not, or if you havent started yet, you might do better lowering fats a tad (100-110g or so) and raising carbs.

Hlanderr · 10-17-2005, 11:21 AM

I like to throw in two scoops of carbs with my post workout shake.
I bought this massive 20 pound bucket of maltodextrin carbs online which has about 30 g of carbs per serving (less than 1 g of sugar).
Since it's with your shake you wouldn;t have to change your diet at all if you really want to stick with that one.

ST240 · 10-17-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thajeepster

have you been on this diet for a while? are you gaining on it? If so, stick with it. If not, or if you havent started yet, you might do better lowering fats a tad (100-110g or so) and raising carbs.

no i just started it a few days ago... I think im gonna give it a whirl, except like Emma-Leigh suggested ill add a few more carbs such as fruit, etc. Never tried iso-caloric before... maybe its what ive been looking for

10-15-2005, 12:51 PM	#1
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	Bulking Diet FINALLY (critique greatly appriciated) After finally getting back into the whole routine of training for the most part after the summer, I compiled this diet over several days. My stats are 5'8", 140 lbs (i was 160 lbs 4 months ago damn framing). I hope this is better than my last bulking diet which consisted of mass gainer shakes, brown bread and tuna . Anyways here goes (totals are in grams): Meal 1 Multivitamin 6 eggs (only 2 yolks) 0.66 cup of oatmeal uncooked 1 cup skim milk 2 fish caps 2 tbsp ground flaxseed Protein 44 \| Carbs 46 \| Fat 25 Meal 2 Sandwich -can of chunk light tuna -2 pieces of sprouted grain bread -lettuce -1 tbsp mayo 0.25 cup of peanuts carrots/celery Protein 37 \| Carbs 38 \| Fat 31 Meal 3 1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked) 8 oz 95% lean ground beef 0.5 avocado steamed veggies (broccoli, carrots, asparagus) Protein 48 \| Carbs 43 \| Fat 27 Meal 4 Some kind of home cooked meal Protein ~40 \| Carbs ~40 \| Fat ~15 Meal 5 (PWO) 1.5 cups skim milk 2 scoops of whey ~50 ml of dextrose? (if you know what weight in g this is tell me ) 5 g creatine Protein 57 \| Carbs 62 \| Fat 4 Meal 6 (PPWO) 1 medium yam or sweet potato med chicken breast large salad 1 tbsp olive oil 2 tbsp hemp seeds Protein 43 \| Carbs 39 \| Fat 24 Which combines to a daily total of: Protein 269 \| Carbs 278 \| Fat 126 Which yields a grand total of 4417 calories in a 37/37/26 respective breakdown. I was thinking of adding a banana to the PWO shake but i loved the perfect ratio so i left it alone. Keep in mind im not a diet expert . What do you guys think? Any opinions welcome. Edit: Keep in mind my metabolism is very fast. i probably won't even put on a ponch with this diet.

10-15-2005, 12:58 PM	#2
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	don't use milk in your PWO shake use only water and/or juice(s). other than that it looks pretty solid
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

10-15-2005, 02:55 PM	#5
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	correct me if im wrong, but for some reason I thought milk slowed down protein metabolism... maybe im thinking about something else? i might be talking out of my ass.... im pretty hungover! hah
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774

10-15-2005, 11:19 PM	#11
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	I've heard it's best to take your protein/carbs IMMEDIATELY after lifting. Like, as your walking away from your last set if possible.... hahah well maybe a drink of water might be refreshing first.... I drive to the gym I'm go to and I always bring my shake with me, and I'm drinking it within a few minutes after my last set in my car on my ride back. Not sure where I heard that from, but I think the general idea is to have it as soon as you can...
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774

10-16-2005, 04:47 PM	#12
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	bump for interest
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774

10-15-2005, 01:31 PM	#4
rgrmike74 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: alabama Posts: 129	i have read alot bout not useing milk in your shakes.. what is the reason? skim milk in my shakes is bout the only way to make them taste good enough to finish

10-15-2005, 04:44 PM	#8
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	Oh, yeah and another thing... I was thinking of replacing the ground flax with ground almonds in meal 1 (ground almonds on oats proved to be quite tasty ). Are there any restrictions to the kinds of nuts you should eat (im referring to the peanuts here too). Just your average roasted/salted is ok? Blanched isnt too appealing .

10-15-2005, 08:47 PM	#10
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	Wow thats a lot of info. Thanks a lot Emma-Leigh. If it's any consolation i thought 8 oz. of beef was too much too lol. Ill make those changes then. So i guess ill leave the milk in there cuz it makes the shake that much more enjoyable . Btw does that PWO shake have to be consumed immediately after the workout? Or can it wait until i get home (~20 min) and make it there? You got me confused about the whole nut/seed thing now i thought almonds were pretty good and i donno if linseeds will tastes as good as almonds do in my oatmeal haha.

10-16-2005, 06:41 PM	#17
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	is it ok to take my pwo shake when i get home or should i do it at the gym?

10-16-2005, 07:36 PM	#18
thajeepster Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 759 Photos: 7	my calc's (269g+278g) x 4 + 126g x 9 = 3322 cals not 4417 and that would be a 32p/33c/34f isocaloric diet.

10-16-2005, 07:36 PM	#19
thajeepster Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 759 Photos: 7	sorry, btw , im kindof a math freak .... lol

10-16-2005, 10:24 PM	#20
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	errrrrrrrr. isnt there 6 cals per g in protein and carbs? Edit: Son of a bitch there is 4.... LOL. Wow, do i ever feel like an idiot. Guess ill have to be switching shit up then. iso caloric isn't what i really want i dont think...

10-17-2005, 11:21 AM	#24
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	I like to throw in two scoops of carbs with my post workout shake. I bought this massive 20 pound bucket of maltodextrin carbs online which has about 30 g of carbs per serving (less than 1 g of sugar). Since it's with your shake you wouldn;t have to change your diet at all if you really want to stick with that one.
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774