Cycle for recovering from broken leg??

nkira · 07-05-2009, 01:50 PM

Which one's are you taking?

VictorZ06 · 07-05-2009, 05:11 PM

Very good info guys!!

/V

juggernaut · 07-05-2009, 06:04 PM

Aleve, NK, but only when I do squats a few hours later.

juggernaut · 07-05-2009, 06:04 PM

as needed which isnt much.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 12:15 AM

Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.

Better of speaking from experience, much more reliable option in my opinion. I have suffered a torn pec, torn rotator cuff, inflammed shoulder bursitis(both sides), elbow tendonitis and a broken collar bone and arm.

I have experimented with many drugs and used Naprosyn frequently during rehabilitation which helped restricting inflamation and pain. I never made claims that it enhances bone remodeling or whatever in anyway.

I dont think taking AAS is the best option from EXPERIENCE, not from what I have read somewhere. Although some AAS may speed recovery due to faster muscle growth and additional fluid retention while on a cycle IF the rest of the rehabilitation process is done correctly, the problem is when AAS use is stopped and the body is reducing its anabolic state, loosing fluid and fighting to hold on to muscle aswell as healing a injury, the body is now very vunurable.

In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Because NSAIDs carry a host of side effects and do nothing to help heal the underlying condition - in fact, they do the opposite: NSAIDs interfere with bone remodeling during the healing process:
<link>
"Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs continue to be prescribed as analgesics for patients with healing fractures even though these drugs diminish bone formation, healing, and remodeling. Inhibition of bone formation can be clinically useful in preventing heterotopic ossification in selected clinical situations. In this regard, naproxen may be more efficacious than the traditional indomethacin, and short-term administration is as effective as long-term. When fracture healing or spine fusion is desired, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs should be avoided."

Nandrolone aids in tissue remodelling while it reduces inflammation. In short, it not only masks pain, but promotes muscle and bone growth - important considerations while healing an injury. I wish my husband had been given nandrolone when he was healing a leg fracture five years ago. It would have healed faster, and his leg might not have wasted while he was healing. Nandrolone can work to improve the outcome of physiotherapy - so you get back to your regularly-scheduled life more quickly.

<shrugs>

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Thinking steroids are the answer for everything is a no-brainer.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 12:36 AM

You must not know me very well if you think that about me.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.

Cool. I'll wait for you to produce them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.

Then why take NSAIDS? They have been demonstrated to slow down the process of healing broken bone.

Hardly seems like a responsible approach to rehabbing an injury.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Cool. I'll wait for you to produce them.

Theres no point! That was my point.

Then why take NSAIDS? They have been demonstrated to slow down the process of healing broken bone.

Hardly seems like a responsible approach to rehabbing an injury.

I said use them or another anti-inflamatary (there are many) IF an anti-inflamatary is required rather than a anabolic that puts the body in a false sense of sercurity and shuts down natural hormone production.

Using anabolics hardly seems like a responsible approach to rehabbing an injury to me.

What are your experiences using drugs during rehabilitation??

nkira · 07-06-2009, 01:59 AM

I don't think he knows you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

You must not know me very well if you think that about me.

So, you mean to say every one's body is just like your's? (Considering YOUR experience!)

Also if MEATYCOL decided to take roids the dose requires would be far-less than the one required for muscle building goal(Read the title of the thread!)...thus lesser sides & short low dosed PCT.

To shut down body's natural production the dosage required are much higher...we discussing therapeutical dosage only......the goal here is to AID HEALING.

Post some links, references to backup what ever you are saying...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links.

Better of speaking from experience, much more reliable option in my opinion. I have suffered a torn pec, torn rotator cuff, inflammed shoulder bursitis(both sides), elbow tendonitis and a broken collar bone and arm.

I have experimented with many drugs and used Naprosyn frequently during rehabilitation which helped restricting inflamation and pain. I never made claims that it enhances bone remodeling or whatever in anyway.

I dont think taking AAS is the best option from EXPERIENCE, not from what I have read somewhere. Although some AAS may speed recovery due to faster muscle growth and additional fluid retention while on a cycle IF the rest of the rehabilitation process is done correctly, the problem is when AAS use is stopped and the body is reducing its anabolic state, loosing fluid and fighting to hold on to muscle aswell as healing a injury, the body is now very vunurable.

In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 02:03 AM

Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries. And I've been careful to avoid NSAIDs whenever possible because of their adverse effect on healing.

The drugs I've been offered to control pain for my herniated cervical disc and associated bone and neuropathic pain in my neck and left arm include the NSAIDs Celebrex and Arthrotec (diclofenac/misoprostol), the GABA analogue Gabapentin, the tricyclic antidepressants and Amitriptyline and Imipramine, the narcotic morphine, and the anabolic steroid Nandrolone.

I have prescriptions for all of them, but there have been problems.

Celebrex - I might as well have swallowed smarties - Celebrex did NOTHING for my pain. Arthrotec, well, it worked a bit but the stomach pain was almost unbearable - and this in spite of the misoprostol. I referred to taking it as "time to take my burning glass shards" because that's what it felt like I had swallowed whenever I took it. Gabapentin and the tricyclic antidepressants promised to make me - and I quote my physician on this one - "loopy". No thanks. I'm on ADHD meds as it is. No point making things WORSE - and besides, I'm not depressed - I'm just injured. Morphine is helpful, but all I do on it is sleep.

Nandrolone is less androgenic than the extremely low dose of transdermal testosterone I already take for HRT, and as I mentioned, has been demonstrated to reduce inflammation and bone pain, and to enhance tissue remodelling and bone healing. This isn't random tissue being laid down - it actually helps your body lay down tissue in the correct organizational matrix to support proper tissue-healing, exactly the opposite of what NSAIDs will do under this paradigm.

Of the drugs I have been offered, only nandrolone is currently unavailable in my country. It is a legal, approved drug in Canada, and I have a scrip for it, but I have so far been unable to find a Canadian pharmacy that stocks it since Organon (which used to be in Quebec) was purchased by Schering-Plough a few years ago. I called them, and was told the supplier in Pakistan was unreliable so they discontinued the line; they got tired of waiting up to a year for back-ordered Deca-Durabolin to ship.

Nandrolone can help protect against breast cancer, and is a known blood-builder. Its metabolites are present in a woman's body when she is pregnant - how's that safety profile for you? It is widely used in Europe for little old ladies with similar bone conditions, in the same dosing (50mg every three weeks) and still, no dice. Seems there are a few bodybuilders using it for physique-enhancing purposes, and I rather suspect that has made it difficult for people to obtain these therapeutics for use as indicated on the product monographs.

There are others who are unable to obtain these therapeutics - HIV/AIDS wasting, for example, responds beautifully to this life-saving medication. In Canada, neither nandrolone nor the much more expensive oxandrolone is available except through special access, which is a NIGHTMARE and almost no doctors are willing to jump through the required hoops in order to obtain it.

My own doctor suggested I go outside the country and fly in with three months' supply at a time - a practice which is legal in Canada for any approved medication for personal use. That's what my endocrinologist told me, and that's what the Justice website tells me. I checked.

I don't know why you have a bee in your bonnet about AAS for injury rehab, Shadowcam. Used responsibly, these are extremely beneficial substances that have been demonstrated to improve treatment outcomes for injury-rehab, broken bones and muscle wasting.

This cannot be said for any NSAID, narcotic or tricyclic antidepressant I've encountered.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkira

I don't think he knows you.

So, you mean to say every one's body is just like your's? (Considering YOUR experience!)
Absolutely not! Im stating whats worked for me. Of course that may not work for somebody else but same goes for anything and everyone else so whats your point.
Also if MEATYCOL decided to take roids the dose requires would be far-less than the one required for muscle building goal(Read the title of the thread!)...thus lesser sides & short low dosed PCT.

To shut down body's natural production the dosage required are much higher...we discussing therapeutical dosage only......the goal here is to AID HEALING.
Wrong! Deca is known to shut down natural hormone production at a very minimal dosage as it is one of the most surpressive steroids there is. Plus, Deca obviously cannot be used by itself because of its low androgen levels therefore needs to be stacked with some form of Testosterone.
Post some links, references to backup what ever you are saying...

So your saying the thread starter was only considering anabolics for healing an injury and not to build muscle mass. I suggest your read the first post.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 02:43 AM

What's wrong with building muscle mass as he rehabs? He had a chunk taken off his leg when he broke his femur.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries. And I've been careful to avoid NSAIDs whenever possible because of their adverse effect on healing.

The drugs I've been offered to control pain for my herniated cervical disc and associated bone and neuropathic pain in my neck and left arm include the NSAIDs Celebrex and Arthrotec (diclofenac/misoprostol), the GABA analogue Gabapentin, the tricyclic antidepressants and Amitriptyline and Imipramine, the narcotic morphine, and the anabolic steroid Nandrolone.

I have prescriptions for all of them, but there have been problems.

Celebrex - I might as well have swallowed smarties - Celebrex did NOTHING for my pain. Arthrotec, well, it worked a bit but the stomach pain was almost unbearable - and this in spite of the misoprostol. I referred to taking it as "time to take my burning glass shards" because that's what it felt like I had swallowed whenever I took it. Gabapentin and the tricyclic antidepressants promised to make me - and I quote my physician on this one - "loopy". No thanks. I'm on ADHD meds as it is. No point making things WORSE - and besides, I'm not depressed - I'm just injured. Morphine is helpful, but all I do on it is sleep.

Nandrolone is less androgenic than the extremely low dose of transdermal testosterone I already take for HRT, and as I mentioned, has been demonstrated to reduce inflammation and bone pain, and to enhance tissue remodelling and bone healing. This isn't random tissue being laid down - it actually helps your body lay down tissue in the correct organizational matrix to support proper tissue-healing, exactly the opposite of what NSAIDs will do under this paradigm.

Of the drugs I have been offered, only nandrolone is currently unavailable in my country. It is a legal, approved drug in Canada, and I have a scrip for it, but I have so far been unable to find a Canadian pharmacy that stocks it since Organon (which used to be in Quebec) was purchased by Schering-Plough a few years ago. I called them, and was told the supplier in Pakistan was unreliable so they discontinued the line; they got tired of waiting up to a year for back-ordered Deca-Durabolin to ship.

Nandrolone can help protect against breast cancer, and is a known blood-builder. Its metabolites are present in a woman's body when she is pregnant - how's that safety profile for you? It is widely used in Europe for little old ladies with similar bone conditions, in the same dosing (50mg every three weeks) and still, no dice. Seems there are a few bodybuilders using it for physique-enhancing purposes, and I rather suspect that has made it difficult for people to obtain these therapeutics for use as indicated on the product monographs.

There are others who are unable to obtain these therapeutics - HIV/AIDS wasting, for example, responds beautifully to this life-saving medication. In Canada, neither nandrolone nor the much more expensive oxandrolone is available except through special access, which is a NIGHTMARE and almost no doctors are willing to jump through the required hoops in order to obtain it.

My own doctor suggested I go outside the country and fly in with three months' supply at a time - a practice which is legal in Canada for any approved medication for personal use. That's what my endocrinologist told me, and that's what the Justice website tells me. I checked.

I don't know why you have a bee in your bonnet about AAS for injury rehab, Shadowcam. Used responsibly, these are extremely beneficial substances that have been demonstrated to improve treatment outcomes for injury-rehab, broken bones and muscle wasting.
This cannot be said for any NSAID, narcotic or tricyclic antidepressant I've encountered.

The problem is it is not very often used responsibly, especially by bodybuilders.

I understand that AAS are prescribed for certain injuries and many other medical conditions but where bodybuilders are concerned the dosages are nothing like what a doctor would prescribe.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 02:53 AM

Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem.

I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed.

The OP has lost a great deal of muscle - 45 lbs - and had muscle cut away from his thigh during surgery. I cannot for the life of me see why the cycle he is suggesting is a bad idea in his case.

Shadowcam, what have been your experiences with AAS?

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

What's wrong with building muscle mass as he rehabs? He had a chunk taken off his leg when he broke his femur.

Nothing at all! thats what he should be doing.

nkira said we were only discussing therapeutical dosages that will not shut down natural hormone production.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 03:10 AM

Okay, so based on your complete lack of personal experience with AAS, and your clear dislike for their therapeutic and or physique-enhancing properties, you feel the OP should NOT take AAS and instead use drugs that interfere with the natural healing process while he rehabs a bone-break that could have killed him and continues to experience muscle-wasting.

Just so we're clear.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 03:14 AM

[quote=Built;1911223]Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem.

I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed.

The OP has lost a great deal of muscle - 45 lbs - and had muscle cut away from his thigh during surgery. I cannot for the life of me see why the cycle he is suggesting is a bad idea in his case.

Shadowcam, what have been your experiences with AAS?[/QUOTE]

I have used Test/Deca twice for rehab after operations in desperation to get lost muscle mass back. Both times I have re-injured myself. Once about six weeks into the cycle and once during PCT.

nkira · 07-06-2009, 03:38 AM

So, Gaining muscle mass while healing an injury.....hmmm....sound's like perq to me!

He has lost considerable muscle mass, 45lbs.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

So your saying the thread starter was only considering anabolics for healing an injury and not to build muscle mass. I suggest your read the first post.

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Okay, so based on your complete lack of personal experience with AAS, and your clear dislike for their therapeutic and or physique-enhancing properties, you feel the OP should NOT take AAS and instead use drugs that interfere with the natural healing process while he rehabs a bone-break that could have killed him and continues to experience muscle-wasting.

Just so we're clear.

Yes you are right! I have never used AAS and I am totally against AAS for any purpose even for somebody who almost lost his life by breaking his leg.

I love to get told by a over dramatic 58kg little lady!

nkira · 07-06-2009, 03:41 AM

Here's something interesting,

"Nine patients who had been treated with 50 mg nandrolone decanoate every three weeks did not lose bone from the radius or the metacarpals during the 2 yrs following withdrawal of therapy."

Bone mineral content, cortical thickness and fract...[Maturitas. 1986] - PubMed Result

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkira

Here's something interesting,

"Nine patients who had been treated with 50 mg nandrolone decanoate every three weeks did not lose bone from the radius or the metacarpals during the 2 yrs following withdrawal of therapy."

Bone mineral content, cortical thickness and fract...[Maturitas. 1986] - PubMed Result

Oooh, good to know, thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

Yes you are right! I have never used AAS and I am totally against AAS for any purpose even for somebody who almost lost his life by breaking his leg.

I love to get told by a over dramatic 58kg little lady!

I misunderstood your earlier post, obviously. I read it as you saying you had no experience with AAS. You clarified, so I'll get on with the discussion.

Okay, so because you're a man and I'm tiny and female, being "told" by me is particularly irksome?

That just makes it SO MUCH BETTER!

Now, when you re-injured yourself, were you doing rehab on these drugs, or were you trying to push around the heavy stuff like you did when you were uninjured? The reason I ask is because the OP isn't in any position to throw around the heavy stuff, and he knows it.

You sound like you did not.

(The little woman will now tippy-toe off to bed for her beauty-sleep. Try to be nice while I'm asleep...)

Shadowcam · 07-06-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Oooh, good to know, thanks!

I misunderstood your earlier post, obviously. I read it as you saying you had no experience with AAS. You clarified, so I'll get on with the discussion.

Okay, so because you're a man and I'm tiny and female, being "told" by me is particularly irksome?

That just makes it SO MUCH BETTER!

Now, when you re-injured yourself, were you doing rehab on these drugs, or were you trying to push around the heavy stuff like you did when you were uninjured? The reason I ask is because the OP isn't in any position to throw around the heavy stuff, and he knows it.

You sound like you did not.

(The little woman will now tippy-toe off to bed for her beauty-sleep. Try to be nice while I'm asleep...)

I was doing rehab in both instances. I never attempted to lift the same poundages as before the injuries as I had lost alot of muscle mass although I was on a progressive resistance training program to regain strength and muscle mass but I began with a very light weight.

The first time I chose to run a cycle during rehab I re-tore a tendon six weeks into the cycle. Reason being the muscle grew at such a rapid rate due to "lost muscle rebound and AAS" the tendon gave way. This may not have happened if I had let the muscles rebuild at a natural level rather than try to speed the process up with anabolics.

I also tried running a cycle while in rehabilitation after I broke my arm. I completed the cycle with no problems and recovery was going great untill the drugs started to leave the body and the anti-inflamitary and anabolic effect was reversed I recieved excrushiating pain and inflamation and was forced to cease training for almost two months.

I always compete once or twice a year so obviously I wanted the injuries to heal as soon as possible and the dosages I took were obviously higher than what a doctor would prescribe.

If used responsibly at a low dosage, the rehab process is not rushed and extra care is taken when AAS are ceased when recovery levels are diminishing then Im sure it will aid the rehab process. But that is very unlikely if the subject is a bodybuilder and I believe not including AAS in the rehab process and let the injury heal at a natural consistant pace is a safer option.

Just my 2 many cents!

nkira · 07-06-2009, 09:09 AM

I meant therapeutical.....Just correcting my typo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkira

Steroid's were ACTUALLY developed for their pharmaceutical value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowcam

I also tried running a cycle while in rehabilitation after I broke my arm. I completed the cycle with no problems and recovery was going great untill the drugs started to leave the body and the anti-inflamitary and anabolic effect was reversed I recieved excrushiating pain and inflamation and was forced to cease training for almost two months.

Shadowcam, Your personal experience with injuries while running the cycle are interesting....No offence.

In IMHO diet is crucial in PCT phase, focus on keeping what you gained from your cycle.

Make sure your protein intake and caloric intake has been adjusted upwards based upon how much you gained.

If you're dieting severely, then chronic cortisol can become an issue when it comes to muscle preservation.

Also, you didnt outline your PCT, some suggest using cortisol blocker(7-OH-Diacetate) as the purpose there is two fold - maintaining your gains and also fat reduction.

Considering that you compete twice a year I assume that you already know this stuff...

Well that's my 2 cents..

Hope that helps.

rahaas · 07-06-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries.

Dam you need to look both way before crossing traffic

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 10:20 AM

rahaas, I know I know... LMAO I'm telling you, I'm clumsy. I was on a first-name basis with ER when I was a kid. They probably thought my parents were throwing me down flights of stairs I was in there so often!

Shadowcam, it sounds to me like you rushed your training because you were anxious to compete - in the first instance, you were trying to rehab a ruptured tendon? DAMN, that's a serious injury. Tendons take forever to heal. In the second, you were trying to speed the healing of a broken bone. My feeling is that you blew the opportunity to allow AAS to assist in the rehab of your injuries by pushing your actual training too fast - it's an important warning to anyone running AAS to assist in healing injuries and I'm glad you brought it up.

That being said, you'll heal better and faster on then off. I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

- The little woman's .02 CDN.

juggernaut · 07-06-2009, 12:54 PM

Damn, MA-didnt think that of you being clumsy-assed.

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 01:33 PM

I have ADHD. It's part of the spectrum.

nkira · 07-06-2009, 01:43 PM

Look, sparkly things! Let's go fly kites!.....

**Built** · 07-06-2009, 01:44 PM

LMAO! Nkira knows me well!

07-06-2009, 12:36 AM	#37
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	You must not know me very well if you think that about me. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-06-2009, 02:03 AM	#41
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	Well, I've broken two arms, a collarbone and a foot. I have a herniated disc and osteoarthritis. I have a grade I anterolisthesis at C5-S1, a rotator cuff impingement and a torn acetabular labrum in my right hip (and possibly another in my left). Believe me when I say I've had my share of injuries. And I've been careful to avoid NSAIDs whenever possible because of their adverse effect on healing. The drugs I've been offered to control pain for my herniated cervical disc and associated bone and neuropathic pain in my neck and left arm include the NSAIDs Celebrex and Arthrotec (diclofenac/misoprostol), the GABA analogue Gabapentin, the tricyclic antidepressants and Amitriptyline and Imipramine, the narcotic morphine, and the anabolic steroid Nandrolone. I have prescriptions for all of them, but there have been problems. Celebrex - I might as well have swallowed smarties - Celebrex did NOTHING for my pain. Arthrotec, well, it worked a bit but the stomach pain was almost unbearable - and this in spite of the misoprostol. I referred to taking it as "time to take my burning glass shards" because that's what it felt like I had swallowed whenever I took it. Gabapentin and the tricyclic antidepressants promised to make me - and I quote my physician on this one - "loopy". No thanks. I'm on ADHD meds as it is. No point making things WORSE - and besides, I'm not depressed - I'm just injured. Morphine is helpful, but all I do on it is sleep. Nandrolone is less androgenic than the extremely low dose of transdermal testosterone I already take for HRT, and as I mentioned, has been demonstrated to reduce inflammation and bone pain, and to enhance tissue remodelling and bone healing. This isn't random tissue being laid down - it actually helps your body lay down tissue in the correct organizational matrix to support proper tissue-healing, exactly the opposite of what NSAIDs will do under this paradigm. Of the drugs I have been offered, only nandrolone is currently unavailable in my country. It is a legal, approved drug in Canada, and I have a scrip for it, but I have so far been unable to find a Canadian pharmacy that stocks it since Organon (which used to be in Quebec) was purchased by Schering-Plough a few years ago. I called them, and was told the supplier in Pakistan was unreliable so they discontinued the line; they got tired of waiting up to a year for back-ordered Deca-Durabolin to ship. Nandrolone can help protect against breast cancer, and is a known blood-builder. Its metabolites are present in a woman's body when she is pregnant - how's that safety profile for you? It is widely used in Europe for little old ladies with similar bone conditions, in the same dosing (50mg every three weeks) and still, no dice. Seems there are a few bodybuilders using it for physique-enhancing purposes, and I rather suspect that has made it difficult for people to obtain these therapeutics for use as indicated on the product monographs. There are others who are unable to obtain these therapeutics - HIV/AIDS wasting, for example, responds beautifully to this life-saving medication. In Canada, neither nandrolone nor the much more expensive oxandrolone is available except through special access, which is a NIGHTMARE and almost no doctors are willing to jump through the required hoops in order to obtain it. My own doctor suggested I go outside the country and fly in with three months' supply at a time - a practice which is legal in Canada for any approved medication for personal use. That's what my endocrinologist told me, and that's what the Justice website tells me. I checked. I don't know why you have a bee in your bonnet about AAS for injury rehab, Shadowcam. Used responsibly, these are extremely beneficial substances that have been demonstrated to improve treatment outcomes for injury-rehab, broken bones and muscle wasting. This cannot be said for any NSAID, narcotic or tricyclic antidepressant I've encountered. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup. Last edited by Built : 07-06-2009 at 02:08 AM.

07-06-2009, 02:43 AM	#43
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	What's wrong with building muscle mass as he rehabs? He had a chunk taken off his leg when he broke his femur. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-06-2009, 02:53 AM	#45
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem. I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed. The OP has lost a great deal of muscle - 45 lbs - and had muscle cut away from his thigh during surgery. I cannot for the life of me see why the cycle he is suggesting is a bad idea in his case. Shadowcam, what have been your experiences with AAS? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-06-2009, 03:10 AM	#47
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	Okay, so based on your complete lack of personal experience with AAS, and your clear dislike for their therapeutic and or physique-enhancing properties, you feel the OP should NOT take AAS and instead use drugs that interfere with the natural healing process while he rehabs a bone-break that could have killed him and continues to experience muscle-wasting. Just so we're clear. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-05-2009, 05:11 PM	#32
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	Very good info guys!! /V

07-05-2009, 06:04 PM	#33
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	Aleve, NK, but only when I do squats a few hours later.

07-06-2009, 12:15 AM	#35
Shadowcam Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 506	Unfortunatly research links do not always tell the truth. I bet I can find another artical that contradicts everything in those links. Better of speaking from experience, much more reliable option in my opinion. I have suffered a torn pec, torn rotator cuff, inflammed shoulder bursitis(both sides), elbow tendonitis and a broken collar bone and arm. I have experimented with many drugs and used Naprosyn frequently during rehabilitation which helped restricting inflamation and pain. I never made claims that it enhances bone remodeling or whatever in anyway. I dont think taking AAS is the best option from EXPERIENCE, not from what I have read somewhere. Although some AAS may speed recovery due to faster muscle growth and additional fluid retention while on a cycle IF the rest of the rehabilitation process is done correctly, the problem is when AAS use is stopped and the body is reducing its anabolic state, loosing fluid and fighting to hold on to muscle aswell as healing a injury, the body is now very vunurable. In my opinion from experience is to let the body heal at its own pace it its own natural anabolic status with plenty of rehabilitation.

07-06-2009, 03:14 AM	#48
Shadowcam Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 506	[quote=Built;1911223]Of course not. My physician would only prescribe masking agents - nothing that had the potential to heal the problem. I had to see an endocrinologist at the University of British Columbia to get a scrip for the elusive nandrolone. I argued that it might help, and in his expert opinion, he agreed. The OP has lost a great deal of muscle - 45 lbs - and had muscle cut away from his thigh during surgery. I cannot for the life of me see why the cycle he is suggesting is a bad idea in his case. Shadowcam, what have been your experiences with AAS?[/QUOTE] I have used Test/Deca twice for rehab after operations in desperation to get lost muscle mass back. Both times I have re-injured myself. Once about six weeks into the cycle and once during PCT.

07-06-2009, 10:20 AM	#56
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	rahaas, I know I know... LMAO I'm telling you, I'm clumsy. I was on a first-name basis with ER when I was a kid. They probably thought my parents were throwing me down flights of stairs I was in there so often! Shadowcam, it sounds to me like you rushed your training because you were anxious to compete - in the first instance, you were trying to rehab a ruptured tendon? DAMN, that's a serious injury. Tendons take forever to heal. In the second, you were trying to speed the healing of a broken bone. My feeling is that you blew the opportunity to allow AAS to assist in the rehab of your injuries by pushing your actual training too fast - it's an important warning to anyone running AAS to assist in healing injuries and I'm glad you brought it up. That being said, you'll heal better and faster on then off. I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater. - The little woman's .02 CDN. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-06-2009, 12:54 PM	#57
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	Damn, MA-didnt think that of you being clumsy-assed.

07-06-2009, 01:33 PM	#58
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	I have ADHD. It's part of the spectrum. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-06-2009, 01:44 PM	#60
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	LMAO! Nkira knows me well! Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

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