Making A Third Cycle

LikeARock · 08-09-2009, 10:23 PM

Hey, so this is my situation. I get my gear from an acquaintance and I dont have much choice in what I get

I asked him to pick me up enough Test. E. and EQ for minimium a 12 week cycle. Instead I got 3 bottles of Test. C. at 200mg/ml (10ml's), 1 bottle of Test 400 (10ml), and 1 bottle of EQ @ 200mg/ml (10ml). I have about 5 weeks worth of Tren. Hex. on hand but the problem with that is they expired last month (07/09). Would they still be safe to shoot up? I'm going to assume they wont be as potent anymore but I'm not sure if the oil can go bad or not. I dont plan on starting a cycle until November. Would something like this work:

400mg/week Test 400 for 10 weeks
200mg/week Test C for 10 weeks, than 600mg/week for the final 2 weeks.
and
200mg/week of EQ for 10 weeks
152/mg week Tren Hex @ last 5 weeks.

or should I just throw out the Tren., which is a major waste of cash :'( and not use the EQ but still run the 600mg/week of test for 12 or 14 weeks instead. Also I have arimidex on hand and so was wondering if it be worthwhile using .25mg/day. The water retention I get is pretty crazy, especially on my face. This is all a pre-game plan, and I can potentially get more before November, hopefully from another source though because if I told you what I paid for all of this you'd think I have an extra 21st Chromosome.

zeek · 08-11-2009, 06:50 AM

tell us about yourself first... age, weight, bf,how many cycles have you ran before, ect.....

redflash · 08-11-2009, 04:37 PM

Zeek, I know that's the protocol but this is his third cycle and he's asking some pretty sensible questions...

Cycle seems fine to me: good length, high cumulative dosages but not off the scale; finishing EQ 2 weeks before test seems to be the norm; Arim is a good idea and at that dose shouldn't limit gains too much; and your Tren should be absolutely fine given usual margins on use-by dates. I'm assuming the Test 400 is a long ester test...

Some would say 200mg EQ won't do anything and on its own they might be right, but as part of a mix then it will increase the overall anabolic value of the stack. There might be some case for five weeks Tren and five separate weeks of 400mg EQ to address this dosage point and even out the overall cycle; others will advise on whether EQ would be best first or last if you did this.

You haven't mentioned Nolva/Tamoxifen which you should always have on hand as a fast-acting anti-e, especially if you have had water retention problems before.

And you haven't mentioned HCG from week 2 which many would use at low doses (even 250iu every 3-4 days) to keep your balls in action which is a big aid to eventual PCT.

Now play by the rules, answer Zeek's questions and you might get more of a response!

Good luck.

VictorZ06 · 08-11-2009, 05:08 PM

I would not want to take two different kinds of tests as this will cause your levels to flux, and that's a big no no. It's best to have one ester of test...no more. This way your levels are even throughout your cycle and recovery will be much easier. (The same reason why sustanon is frowned upon)

I strongly suggest not adjusting your test during your cycle...pick a dose and stick with it. No need to go up and down and changing tests. This will do more harm than good. The only time I can see using two kinds of test is when you want to front with prop, while running enan or cyp. And lastly, I'd probably up the EQ another 100mg. I don't notice much under 300mg/ew. IMHO.

/V

LikeARock · 08-11-2009, 07:44 PM

Well heres go than:

Age: 23.5
Height: 6'1
Weight: 194
BF: <13%
Cycles: Umm the title says its going to be my third one

So the game plan was to use 600mg/week of test, divided in two shots. One monday morning, one thursday night. I'd do half of the test 400 and half of the cyp for a total of 300mg per shot. Also from people I've talked too and what I've read is that Test 400 hurts like hell and it helps to mix it up with something else to lower its concentration. This is what test 400 is made of:

Testosterone Propionate: 25mgs
Testosterone Cypionate: 187mgs
Testosterone Enanthate: 188mgs

I figured if I do two shots a week my test levels shouldnt flux that much from the propionate, 12.5mg isnt that much test for two days. Also, Im guessing that since cyp and Enan. are fairly similar it shouldnt matter too much that they are mixed together, but this is just a guess. As for the EQ I only have the one 10ml bottle @ 200mg/ml so thats why I was wondering if it'd be worth doing 200mg/week or just saving it or something.

For PCT I'll use tamaxofin cit. and maybe clomid plus the usual stuff like lean xtreme, creatine, and some kind of trib.. I dont have a source for HCG so I wont be using that

And as always, this is just a pregame plan. I dont plan on starting until November and I could potentially get more gear, so say two more bottles of EQ and more of test cyp.

I'll post my training plan Im going to use later sometime too.

redflash · 08-12-2009, 01:34 AM

I guessed the Test 400 would be mainly long acting and that's the case. Victor, there's no real difference in half-life between cyp and enan so the only fly in the ointment is the 25mg prop... but this is such a low amount percentage-wise that fluctuation will be minimal.

See my earlier post regarding options for EQ and Tren. If it were me I'd probably use the Tren for first five weeks and 400mg EQ per week for next five, but you're not me...

Even if planning on tamox for PCT, have it on hand at start of cycle.

Finally, it's a poor supplier that can get source your test but not HCG!

VictorZ06 · 08-12-2009, 08:39 AM

All good advice but I have to respectfully disagree with one of your points, Flash.

Yea, there is a difference in half lives for both cyp and enan and they are both very similar. Your body will still have to adjust to the new ester, even though cyp and enan are the almost the same. It's not like drinking a Coke and later switching to Pepsi. Pardon the poor analogy.

It will still take a few weeks for the different test to start working once administered. Cyp is just as effective as enan, but if you cut the cyp and switch to enan (or vice-versa), you still have to wait for that different test to kick in. And as for flux in levels, it should be avoided at all costs, however small. Evan if his prop dose is only at 25mg e/w.

So in short, he's got 3 different kinds of test working at the same time and his levels will flux due to the different durations of each. Especially after bumping up the dose. The extra prop contained in his 400 test as you mentioned, will simply go to waste unless he pins ED or EOD.

In my experiences, I'd run the tren last as you originally planned. Tren does a good job hardening up gains you all ready gained (as will mast). EQ can sometimes leave you a little bloated and if you follow up with tren, it will help reduce bloat. And as far as your tren dose is concerned, I'm not sure you are going to get much off of 152mg e/w. And if you have not used tren before, I would start at around 50mg EOD and see where that gets you. 152mg. is all the way on the left/light side of the spectrum. IMHO. Best of luck, keep us posted.

/V

And yeah, like Flash said...your supplier sucks if doesn't have HCG. I strongly suggest finding it elsewhere.

redflash · 08-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

Yea, there is a difference in half lives for both cyp and enan and they are both very similar. Your body will still have to adjust to the new ester, even though cyp and enan are the almost the same. It's not like drinking a Coke and later switching to Pepsi. Pardon the poor analogy.

It will still take a few weeks for the different test to start working once administered. Cyp is just as effective as enan, but if you cut the cyp and switch to enan (or vice-versa), you still have to wait for that different test to kick in.
.

At risk of stealing the guy's thread, Victor, I have to disagree with your disagreement! I think you're at risk of complicating this.

The only thing that matters in terms of the ester is the half-life and there's nothing in it betwen cyp and enan. Other threads have said before that the choice between cyp and enan is basically what you can get hold of in any market (I think cyp is more common in US and Enan in Europe but I could be wrong). "Getting used to" has no scientific basis; as the cyp gets eliminated from the body, the enan will be building up just like another shot of cyp would. There's no difference in test levels. Hell, you could do cyp one week and enan the next throughout a cycle as they're interchangeable. If you're going to disagree then you'll have to provide some evidence.

The only messy ingredient in this particular cycle is the prop.

Good advice on the Tren/EQ front.

LikeaRock, hope this helps!

Flash

VictorZ06 · 08-12-2009, 04:33 PM

Well, we will have to agree to disagree! LOL

I know I read this in a study someplace, I'll do my best to dig it up. I'll post back here when I find it. Either way will work, but I believe there would be a slight advantage with my method. IMHO.

/V

LikeARock · 10-07-2009, 11:00 PM

Hey I'm alive still!

Here's my new game plan, my buddy came through for me and was able to get me HCG and more Cypionate.

600mg/week Test. C. for 12 weeks (maybe 14)
152mg/week Tren. Hex. at the last 4 weeks.
700 IU/week HCG
.25mg/day Arimidex

I'll split the shots into two per week.

I have 3 bottles of 200mg EQ on hand, plus that Test400. I figure I'll save the EQ for the future, they dont expire for another three years. The Test400 can go to a buddy.

The reason I wanted to do the Tren. Hex. is because I have it on hand and it already expired, I just want to use it up so that it's not a total waste of money.

For PCT Im going to be ordering right away. Im going to use either CEM or AG-Guys. I was planning on ordering nolva and doing something like 40/40/20/20 about 2 weeks after my last shot.

I dont plan on doing this for about a month so I have lots of time to tweek it and and what not. Just let me know what you think!

P.S. Redflash, my supplier does suck for many reasons but I have to take what I can get

On the upside everything that I have bought from him for exorbitant sums of money worked really good.

**Built** · 10-08-2009, 01:22 AM

Victor, I'd like to see something about the change in ester lag-time thing you mentioned above. If this is true, I'd like to understand the mechanism.

08-09-2009, 10:23 PM	#1
LikeARock Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alberta Posts: 67	Making A Third Cycle Hey, so this is my situation. I get my gear from an acquaintance and I dont have much choice in what I get I asked him to pick me up enough Test. E. and EQ for minimium a 12 week cycle. Instead I got 3 bottles of Test. C. at 200mg/ml (10ml's), 1 bottle of Test 400 (10ml), and 1 bottle of EQ @ 200mg/ml (10ml). I have about 5 weeks worth of Tren. Hex. on hand but the problem with that is they expired last month (07/09). Would they still be safe to shoot up? I'm going to assume they wont be as potent anymore but I'm not sure if the oil can go bad or not. I dont plan on starting a cycle until November. Would something like this work: 400mg/week Test 400 for 10 weeks 200mg/week Test C for 10 weeks, than 600mg/week for the final 2 weeks. and 200mg/week of EQ for 10 weeks 152/mg week Tren Hex @ last 5 weeks. or should I just throw out the Tren., which is a major waste of cash :'( and not use the EQ but still run the 600mg/week of test for 12 or 14 weeks instead. Also I have arimidex on hand and so was wondering if it be worthwhile using .25mg/day. The water retention I get is pretty crazy, especially on my face. This is all a pre-game plan, and I can potentially get more before November, hopefully from another source though because if I told you what I paid for all of this you'd think I have an extra 21st Chromosome.

08-12-2009, 08:39 AM	#7
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	All good advice but I have to respectfully disagree with one of your points, Flash. Yea, there is a difference in half lives for both cyp and enan and they are both very similar. Your body will still have to adjust to the new ester, even though cyp and enan are the almost the same. It's not like drinking a Coke and later switching to Pepsi. Pardon the poor analogy. It will still take a few weeks for the different test to start working once administered. Cyp is just as effective as enan, but if you cut the cyp and switch to enan (or vice-versa), you still have to wait for that different test to kick in. And as for flux in levels, it should be avoided at all costs, however small. Evan if his prop dose is only at 25mg e/w. So in short, he's got 3 different kinds of test working at the same time and his levels will flux due to the different durations of each. Especially after bumping up the dose. The extra prop contained in his 400 test as you mentioned, will simply go to waste unless he pins ED or EOD. In my experiences, I'd run the tren last as you originally planned. Tren does a good job hardening up gains you all ready gained (as will mast). EQ can sometimes leave you a little bloated and if you follow up with tren, it will help reduce bloat. And as far as your tren dose is concerned, I'm not sure you are going to get much off of 152mg e/w. And if you have not used tren before, I would start at around 50mg EOD and see where that gets you. 152mg. is all the way on the left/light side of the spectrum. IMHO. Best of luck, keep us posted. /V And yeah, like Flash said...your supplier sucks if doesn't have HCG. I strongly suggest finding it elsewhere. Last edited by VictorZ06 : 08-12-2009 at 09:11 AM. Reason: math was wrong

10-08-2009, 01:22 AM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,115	Victor, I'd like to see something about the change in ester lag-time thing you mentioned above. If this is true, I'd like to understand the mechanism. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

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08-11-2009, 06:50 AM	#2
zeek Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: On lake erie Posts: 31	tell us about yourself first... age, weight, bf,how many cycles have you ran before, ect.....

08-11-2009, 04:37 PM	#3
redflash Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: England Posts: 200	Zeek, I know that's the protocol but this is his third cycle and he's asking some pretty sensible questions... Cycle seems fine to me: good length, high cumulative dosages but not off the scale; finishing EQ 2 weeks before test seems to be the norm; Arim is a good idea and at that dose shouldn't limit gains too much; and your Tren should be absolutely fine given usual margins on use-by dates. I'm assuming the Test 400 is a long ester test... Some would say 200mg EQ won't do anything and on its own they might be right, but as part of a mix then it will increase the overall anabolic value of the stack. There might be some case for five weeks Tren and five separate weeks of 400mg EQ to address this dosage point and even out the overall cycle; others will advise on whether EQ would be best first or last if you did this. You haven't mentioned Nolva/Tamoxifen which you should always have on hand as a fast-acting anti-e, especially if you have had water retention problems before. And you haven't mentioned HCG from week 2 which many would use at low doses (even 250iu every 3-4 days) to keep your balls in action which is a big aid to eventual PCT. Now play by the rules, answer Zeek's questions and you might get more of a response! Good luck.

08-11-2009, 05:08 PM	#4
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	I would not want to take two different kinds of tests as this will cause your levels to flux, and that's a big no no. It's best to have one ester of test...no more. This way your levels are even throughout your cycle and recovery will be much easier. (The same reason why sustanon is frowned upon) I strongly suggest not adjusting your test during your cycle...pick a dose and stick with it. No need to go up and down and changing tests. This will do more harm than good. The only time I can see using two kinds of test is when you want to front with prop, while running enan or cyp. And lastly, I'd probably up the EQ another 100mg. I don't notice much under 300mg/ew. IMHO. /V

08-11-2009, 07:44 PM	#5
LikeARock Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alberta Posts: 67	Well heres go than: Age: 23.5 Height: 6'1 Weight: 194 BF: <13% Cycles: Umm the title says its going to be my third one So the game plan was to use 600mg/week of test, divided in two shots. One monday morning, one thursday night. I'd do half of the test 400 and half of the cyp for a total of 300mg per shot. Also from people I've talked too and what I've read is that Test 400 hurts like hell and it helps to mix it up with something else to lower its concentration. This is what test 400 is made of: Testosterone Propionate: 25mgs Testosterone Cypionate: 187mgs Testosterone Enanthate: 188mgs I figured if I do two shots a week my test levels shouldnt flux that much from the propionate, 12.5mg isnt that much test for two days. Also, Im guessing that since cyp and Enan. are fairly similar it shouldnt matter too much that they are mixed together, but this is just a guess. As for the EQ I only have the one 10ml bottle @ 200mg/ml so thats why I was wondering if it'd be worth doing 200mg/week or just saving it or something. For PCT I'll use tamaxofin cit. and maybe clomid plus the usual stuff like lean xtreme, creatine, and some kind of trib.. I dont have a source for HCG so I wont be using that And as always, this is just a pregame plan. I dont plan on starting until November and I could potentially get more gear, so say two more bottles of EQ and more of test cyp. I'll post my training plan Im going to use later sometime too.

08-12-2009, 01:34 AM	#6
redflash Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: England Posts: 200	I guessed the Test 400 would be mainly long acting and that's the case. Victor, there's no real difference in half-life between cyp and enan so the only fly in the ointment is the 25mg prop... but this is such a low amount percentage-wise that fluctuation will be minimal. See my earlier post regarding options for EQ and Tren. If it were me I'd probably use the Tren for first five weeks and 400mg EQ per week for next five, but you're not me... Even if planning on tamox for PCT, have it on hand at start of cycle. Finally, it's a poor supplier that can get source your test but not HCG!

08-12-2009, 04:33 PM	#9
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	Well, we will have to agree to disagree! LOL I know I read this in a study someplace, I'll do my best to dig it up. I'll post back here when I find it. Either way will work, but I believe there would be a slight advantage with my method. IMHO. /V

10-07-2009, 11:00 PM	#10
LikeARock Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alberta Posts: 67	Hey I'm alive still! Here's my new game plan, my buddy came through for me and was able to get me HCG and more Cypionate. 600mg/week Test. C. for 12 weeks (maybe 14) 152mg/week Tren. Hex. at the last 4 weeks. 700 IU/week HCG .25mg/day Arimidex I'll split the shots into two per week. I have 3 bottles of 200mg EQ on hand, plus that Test400. I figure I'll save the EQ for the future, they dont expire for another three years. The Test400 can go to a buddy. The reason I wanted to do the Tren. Hex. is because I have it on hand and it already expired, I just want to use it up so that it's not a total waste of money. For PCT Im going to be ordering right away. Im going to use either CEM or AG-Guys. I was planning on ordering nolva and doing something like 40/40/20/20 about 2 weeks after my last shot. I dont plan on doing this for about a month so I have lots of time to tweek it and and what not. Just let me know what you think! P.S. Redflash, my supplier does suck for many reasons but I have to take what I can get On the upside everything that I have bought from him for exorbitant sums of money worked really good.