Some weird shit im goin thru.

QuestionGuy · 09-16-2009, 12:11 PM

So I have been on testosterone for about one year now and my doctor is awesome, he was the fourth doctor I talked to that was finally willing to listen and prescribe me testosterone that I desperately needed to stop the depression, low sex drive and old man feeling at the age of 23. I was prescribed 100mg of injectable test per week which placed me in the high middle range of testosterone levels. My sex drive was up, my depression gone, I stopped worying a lot, I made crazy gains in the gym, was motivated, had strenght gains...I was finally able to fuck like I did back in highschool...(and please excuse the image here but it needs to be said)...When I ejaculated, It would be like a volcano, I always knew that my test levels were high and that everything was ok when I rubed one out and it came flying out like it was being shot from a cannon...ok embarasing part done........Well becasue my doctor trusts me and because I really wanted to see what would happen if I took 200mg a week so that my test levels would spike up in the way high normal range, I was prescribeb to take 200 a week. It was freaking awesome in the first couple of weeks, I was walking around like a crazed sex addict constantly bugin the wife for sex, I had zits on my back and shoudlers and I was pushing weights that I could never push before............but slowly I noticed that I have no high sex drive anymore, and my ejaculations are a "meltdown" (if you know what I mean)...I have also been getting more and more emotional...for example I got really emotional while I was wathcing a women show this morning called Dr. OZ or something like that, I literally had tears in my eyes because of some cheesy love story. What is hapening to me, am I having to much tesotsterone that it is converrting into estorgen ?? Do i have too much of a good thing or was the 100mg of test just a placebo feel good drug that wore out?

ALSO, I heared both that tesosterone can help you loose fat and ALSO that it can prevent you from loossing fat making it harder to cut, which is it?

ubergroover · 09-16-2009, 07:10 PM

I am no expert, but it sounds like the test is aromatizing into estrogen. Go tell your doctor and get his/her help.

I have been on HRT for about a year. Same issues as you. My Doc put on Test E, HCG and arimidex. Deca when my joints hurt. Just to give you an idea of other HRT options...

Hoglander · 09-16-2009, 08:12 PM

I'm on HRT. I just went in for my first yearly since it started. I'm on just 50 per week. I feel it for 3 days then I feel the drop. I reported that to the my doc. Blood tests are in the mail.

WOW! 200 for HRT?

More latter....

**Built** · 09-16-2009, 08:45 PM

Hoglander, 50mg a week? You poor thing!

Hubby's on 150mg test cyp a week, pinned @75mg Wednesday and Saturday. I'm going to see if we can increase it to 200.

To the OP, how often do you pin, and what bodyfat are you at? It sounds to me like you may do better pinning twice a week (keeps it stable, no peaks) and with a low dose of some sort of aromatase inhibitor for a little bit.

If you're at all juicy, I'd suggest dropping some bodyfat so you don't turn so much of it into estrogen.

Hoglander · 09-16-2009, 09:24 PM

LOL

Yeah, feel a little ripped off.

Thing is though I was floored when I found my T was low. So all things considered I'm one of the lucky ones. Upper, lower, middle and strength are nothing to complain about. My outlook and mood are nice. I'm very comfortable with myself.

Regardless. I'll post my level. I take it on Tues and was tested on Fri.

More later....

: )

**Built** · 09-16-2009, 09:41 PM

Since you pin on Monday, you should have blood drawn just before you pin - ie have your blood drawn Monday AM, then go home and pin. I guarantee your level will be low by Monday AM, and the goal of HRT is to keep serum testosterone in at least the low end of the normal physiologic range at all times.

I will be VERY interested to read your results, Hoglander. Which ester do you use, and do you pin into a glute or a quad?

Hoglander · 09-16-2009, 10:10 PM

More info for you..

It's cypoinate from Watson Tues in the thigh.

At first it was twice that every two weeks. I told the doc that I felt like I was good for a few days then it was worse then before I took it(it was). So I said I changed it to half the dose every week.

He knows when I take it. I'm not trying to fool him. I do know that others have tried to fool him.

I sense/worry that he is uncomfortable with my gains on low T. So it's a rather odd situation. He did express that I must naturally be predisposed to muscle mass.

In the past year I was up to 224lbs. I came back with the very same weight as last year of 208 because I cut for summer. He mentioned that my abs were more prominent than last year.

He mentioned that we might find out that my thyroid replacement might need to go down. I have no idea why he said that and thought it odd.

BP 120/80 text book normal

You guinea pig

Hog

: )

PS
BTW

I had my overactive thyroid nuked. I've been on 200 for years and last year he put me on 224.

**Built** · 09-16-2009, 10:56 PM

I didn't mean that you should do it that way to "trick" him - in the research where it was pinned once a week, blood levels are always assessed the day before the next shot, at the nadir.
For example, this one: Testosterone Replacement Increases Fat-Free Mass and Muscle Size in Hypogonadal Men -- Bhasin et al. 82 (2): 407 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

This one shows what happens to it when it's pinned once a week at three different doses:
Daily testosterone and gonadotropin levels are similar in azoospermic and nonazoospermic normal men administered weekly testosterone: implications for male contraceptive development -- Amory et al. 22 (6): 1053 -- Journal of Andrology

At 100mg per week, it just skims outside the upper end of normal for a few days after the shot, then drops down to within the normal range just before the next one.

Look for stuff in that journal, "Andrology" - lots of very useful information in there.

**Pirate!** · 09-17-2009, 07:54 AM

QG,

It's the fluctuation, especially the ratio of estrogen to test toward the end of the week. Get some arimidex and take half a tab every four days. If you get 100 mg/wk, try shooting ~75mg every 5 days instead.

jchappj · 09-17-2009, 08:08 AM

OK, I am not trying to hijack this or anything, seems like a decent place to ask... I've been considering trt for a while. A little embarrassing to ask too but with an external source of test don't your gonads shrink like they would if you were 'on cycle', without using hcg? How do you avoid this if not? If you use hcg are you cycling it? Thanks for your help.

QuestionGuy · 09-17-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchappj

OK, I am not trying to hijack this or anything, seems like a decent place to ask... I've been considering trt for a while. A little embarrassing to ask too but with an external source of test don't your gonads shrink like they would if you were 'on cycle', without using hcg? How do you avoid this if not? If you use hcg are you cycling it? Thanks for your help.

Mine have "shrunken" in the past but 90% of the time they are still just hanging out there like they should be, the other 10% I would imagine is just due to the time of day and or weather my body temperature is colder or warmer......Taking test has a high chance of shrinkage like you would be on a cycle, but its not hurting anything.....so does the size of your balls really matter? I mean im sure there are women out there who like to be teabaged with a nice pair of balls after a hard day of work but I think you can manage.

jchappj · 09-17-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Mine have "shrunken" in the past but 90% of the time they are still just hanging out there like they should be, the other 10% I would imagine is just due to the time of day and or weather my body temperature is colder or warmer......Taking test has a high chance of shrinkage like you would be on a cycle, but its not hurting anything.....so does the size of your balls really matter? I mean im sure there are women out there who like to be teabaged with a nice pair of balls after a hard day of work but I think you can manage.

Nice. I just wondered if testicular atrophy would end up being some other type of medical problem. I haven't done any real research on trt so thanks for the info.

ubergroover · 09-21-2009, 08:09 PM

They can definitely shrink. I am on test e 300mg week. So the doc has me on 500 units hcg twice a week. Plus arimidex 3 times weekly. The boys hang normal and life is good!

jchappj · 09-21-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubergroover

They can definitely shrink. I am on test e 300mg week. So the doc has me on 500 units hcg twice a week. Plus arimidex 3 times weekly. The boys hang normal and life is good!

300mg/wk?! WOW! You are on cycle year round. What are your test values at that dosage? How long have you been doing this?

ubergroover · 09-22-2009, 05:08 AM

Be done with my first year in 4 weeks. I will have a major blood test and physical. So I will post my levels then. At the first test my level (dont remeber exact, but it was around 250 Ng/Dl) was significantly below normal for a 46yo male. So I started at 200mg per week. As was explained to me, we make between 4-7 Mg daily. I was in the 2mg category. That was the analogy my doc used. So I started Test E, Armidex, HCG, and Deca once in a while for joint pain. Man, do I feel better. No depression, no muscle wasting....Once I felt better I hit the gym. Lost 45lbs. Now I clock in at 210 with 10%BF. No one can ever tell me andropause is not a real issue for men. I had to go through 5 different Doctors before anyone figured out what was wrong with me.

jchappj · 09-22-2009, 06:10 AM

Congratulations on finding a doctor knowledgeable enough to help you out. Is this an endocronologist?

ubergroover · 09-23-2009, 04:45 AM

Yes he is. Now why this relates to this thread is because, after about 6 months my doc put me on cyp to see if I reacted more favorably. The two are chemically very similar, but the cyp gave me zits and made me very emotional. I went back to Test E and all those issues went away. That is just how I react. Some people could be the opposite...
That is why the author of this post should talk to his doc.

Hoglander · 09-23-2009, 07:46 PM

This thread has been sidetracked a couple different ways, a good part of it by me. There does seem to be some interest in others' HRT. I for one am interested in that. That being said I'll wrap up my end of things here.

I was in error. I'm on 100mg a week.

Got my blood tests back.... normal range on everything. My Serum Testosterone was 431 ng/dL with this lab's reference range 241 - 827. It was taken right in the middle of shots. I found something on the net about this, "...Injectable testosterone enanthate or cypionate: Measure serum testosterone levels midway between injections. If testosterone is >700 ng/dl (24.5 nmol/liter) or <350 ng/dl (12.3 nmol/liter), adjust dose or frequency..." Link: JCEM -- Bhasin et al. 91 (6): 1995 Table 8

I'll let it ride for six months then I'll go in the day before my next shot(Built's advice) and see where the level lands. I couldn't hurt.

I don't and have not had any clinical symptoms of low T, BTW. I just asked the doc to check my levels. I've been on it for one year.

: )

**Built** · 09-23-2009, 10:53 PM

100mg makes MUCH better sense.

If you don't mind doing so, you'll stay more level if you pin twice a week.

**Pirate!** · 09-23-2009, 10:57 PM

I switched to compounded cream. 1 gram twice daily. I'd recommend this over the shots, but I understand this is a relatively high dose. I see a specialist. With Test C, every 4-5 days worked fine for me.

**Built** · 09-23-2009, 11:02 PM

What is the strength of your cream, Pirate?

QuestionGuy · 09-24-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubergroover

Yes he is. Now why this relates to this thread is because, after about 6 months my doc put me on cyp to see if I reacted more favorably. The two are chemically very similar, but the cyp gave me zits and made me very emotional. I went back to Test E and all those issues went away. That is just how I react. Some people could be the opposite...
That is why the author of this post should talk to his doc.

holly shit I need to try that, i didnt know there was a freaking difference...im on tet cyp and like i stated before I have a back full of zits and feel like crying for no reason 10 times a day.

ubergroover · 09-28-2009, 07:39 PM

For me, the test E does the trick. Feel 100% normal,no over aggression, burn fat like I did as a younger man, Same with building muscle. The Cyp was too volatile in my system. It worked great, but it did not agree with my body chemistry.

alexvega · 10-02-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

So I have also been getting more and more emotional...for example I got really emotional while I was wathcing a women show this morning called Dr. OZ or something like that, I literally had tears in my eyes because of some cheesy love story. What is hapening to me, am I having to much tesotsterone that it is converrting into estorgen ?? Do i have too much of a good thing or was the 100mg of test just a placebo feel good drug that wore out?

Hi dude!

i had did 3 cycles,,,, time before with 500mg /week for 8, 10.13 weeks .........i´ll be honest i had felt the shutdown after the end of the cycle
and it´s normal to be more emotional and easy fall in love.... i said that from my experience..... believeme really bad experience.........
but it ´go away after one week may be...... it depends each persons.

like pirate said the estrogen make it´s works......and your braind have changes in the chemistry.

talk with the Doc about the fellings, probably he make some fixit in the dosage !
good luck!

09-16-2009, 12:11 PM	#1
QuestionGuy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,741	Some weird shit im goin thru. So I have been on testosterone for about one year now and my doctor is awesome, he was the fourth doctor I talked to that was finally willing to listen and prescribe me testosterone that I desperately needed to stop the depression, low sex drive and old man feeling at the age of 23. I was prescribed 100mg of injectable test per week which placed me in the high middle range of testosterone levels. My sex drive was up, my depression gone, I stopped worying a lot, I made crazy gains in the gym, was motivated, had strenght gains...I was finally able to fuck like I did back in highschool...(and please excuse the image here but it needs to be said)...When I ejaculated, It would be like a volcano, I always knew that my test levels were high and that everything was ok when I rubed one out and it came flying out like it was being shot from a cannon...ok embarasing part done........Well becasue my doctor trusts me and because I really wanted to see what would happen if I took 200mg a week so that my test levels would spike up in the way high normal range, I was prescribeb to take 200 a week. It was freaking awesome in the first couple of weeks, I was walking around like a crazed sex addict constantly bugin the wife for sex, I had zits on my back and shoudlers and I was pushing weights that I could never push before............but slowly I noticed that I have no high sex drive anymore, and my ejaculations are a "meltdown" (if you know what I mean)...I have also been getting more and more emotional...for example I got really emotional while I was wathcing a women show this morning called Dr. OZ or something like that, I literally had tears in my eyes because of some cheesy love story. What is hapening to me, am I having to much tesotsterone that it is converrting into estorgen ?? Do i have too much of a good thing or was the 100mg of test just a placebo feel good drug that wore out? ALSO, I heared both that tesosterone can help you loose fat and ALSO that it can prevent you from loossing fat making it harder to cut, which is it? You've never lived untill you've almost died, life has an excitement that the protected will never know. Last edited by QuestionGuy : 09-16-2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason: a

09-16-2009, 08:45 PM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	Hoglander, 50mg a week? You poor thing! Hubby's on 150mg test cyp a week, pinned @75mg Wednesday and Saturday. I'm going to see if we can increase it to 200. To the OP, how often do you pin, and what bodyfat are you at? It sounds to me like you may do better pinning twice a week (keeps it stable, no peaks) and with a low dose of some sort of aromatase inhibitor for a little bit. If you're at all juicy, I'd suggest dropping some bodyfat so you don't turn so much of it into estrogen. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-16-2009, 09:41 PM	#6
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	Since you pin on Monday, you should have blood drawn just before you pin - ie have your blood drawn Monday AM, then go home and pin. I guarantee your level will be low by Monday AM, and the goal of HRT is to keep serum testosterone in at least the low end of the normal physiologic range at all times. I will be VERY interested to read your results, Hoglander. Which ester do you use, and do you pin into a glute or a quad? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-16-2009, 10:10 PM	#7
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,499 Photos: 10	More info for you.. It's cypoinate from Watson Tues in the thigh. At first it was twice that every two weeks. I told the doc that I felt like I was good for a few days then it was worse then before I took it(it was). So I said I changed it to half the dose every week. He knows when I take it. I'm not trying to fool him. I do know that others have tried to fool him. I sense/worry that he is uncomfortable with my gains on low T. So it's a rather odd situation. He did express that I must naturally be predisposed to muscle mass. In the past year I was up to 224lbs. I came back with the very same weight as last year of 208 because I cut for summer. He mentioned that my abs were more prominent than last year. He mentioned that we might find out that my thyroid replacement might need to go down. I have no idea why he said that and thought it odd. BP 120/80 text book normal You guinea pig Hog : ) PS BTW I had my overactive thyroid nuked. I've been on 200 for years and last year he put me on 224. Last edited by Hoglander : 09-16-2009 at 10:23 PM. Reason: PS

09-16-2009, 10:56 PM	#8
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	I didn't mean that you should do it that way to "trick" him - in the research where it was pinned once a week, blood levels are always assessed the day before the next shot, at the nadir. For example, this one: Testosterone Replacement Increases Fat-Free Mass and Muscle Size in Hypogonadal Men -- Bhasin et al. 82 (2): 407 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism This one shows what happens to it when it's pinned once a week at three different doses: Daily testosterone and gonadotropin levels are similar in azoospermic and nonazoospermic normal men administered weekly testosterone: implications for male contraceptive development -- Amory et al. 22 (6): 1053 -- Journal of Andrology At 100mg per week, it just skims outside the upper end of normal for a few days after the shot, then drops down to within the normal range just before the next one. Look for stuff in that journal, "Andrology" - lots of very useful information in there. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-16-2009, 07:10 PM	#2
ubergroover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ct Posts: 19	I am no expert, but it sounds like the test is aromatizing into estrogen. Go tell your doctor and get his/her help. I have been on HRT for about a year. Same issues as you. My Doc put on Test E, HCG and arimidex. Deca when my joints hurt. Just to give you an idea of other HRT options...

09-16-2009, 08:12 PM	#3
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,499 Photos: 10	I'm on HRT. I just went in for my first yearly since it started. I'm on just 50 per week. I feel it for 3 days then I feel the drop. I reported that to the my doc. Blood tests are in the mail. WOW! 200 for HRT? More latter....

09-16-2009, 09:24 PM	#5
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,499 Photos: 10	LOL Yeah, feel a little ripped off. Thing is though I was floored when I found my T was low. So all things considered I'm one of the lucky ones. Upper, lower, middle and strength are nothing to complain about. My outlook and mood are nice. I'm very comfortable with myself. Regardless. I'll post my level. I take it on Tues and was tested on Fri. More later.... : )

09-17-2009, 07:54 AM	#9
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,172	QG, It's the fluctuation, especially the ratio of estrogen to test toward the end of the week. Get some arimidex and take half a tab every four days. If you get 100 mg/wk, try shooting ~75mg every 5 days instead. My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-17-2009, 08:08 AM	#10
jchappj I Don't Feel Tardy! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 624 Photos: 6	OK, I am not trying to hijack this or anything, seems like a decent place to ask... I've been considering trt for a while. A little embarrassing to ask too but with an external source of test don't your gonads shrink like they would if you were 'on cycle', without using hcg? How do you avoid this if not? If you use hcg are you cycling it? Thanks for your help. Peace!

09-21-2009, 08:09 PM	#13
ubergroover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ct Posts: 19	They can definitely shrink. I am on test e 300mg week. So the doc has me on 500 units hcg twice a week. Plus arimidex 3 times weekly. The boys hang normal and life is good!

09-22-2009, 05:08 AM	#15
ubergroover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ct Posts: 19	Be done with my first year in 4 weeks. I will have a major blood test and physical. So I will post my levels then. At the first test my level (dont remeber exact, but it was around 250 Ng/Dl) was significantly below normal for a 46yo male. So I started at 200mg per week. As was explained to me, we make between 4-7 Mg daily. I was in the 2mg category. That was the analogy my doc used. So I started Test E, Armidex, HCG, and Deca once in a while for joint pain. Man, do I feel better. No depression, no muscle wasting....Once I felt better I hit the gym. Lost 45lbs. Now I clock in at 210 with 10%BF. No one can ever tell me andropause is not a real issue for men. I had to go through 5 different Doctors before anyone figured out what was wrong with me.

09-22-2009, 06:10 AM	#16
jchappj I Don't Feel Tardy! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 624 Photos: 6	Congratulations on finding a doctor knowledgeable enough to help you out. Is this an endocronologist? Peace!

09-23-2009, 04:45 AM	#17
ubergroover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ct Posts: 19	Yes he is. Now why this relates to this thread is because, after about 6 months my doc put me on cyp to see if I reacted more favorably. The two are chemically very similar, but the cyp gave me zits and made me very emotional. I went back to Test E and all those issues went away. That is just how I react. Some people could be the opposite... That is why the author of this post should talk to his doc.

09-23-2009, 07:46 PM	#18
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,499 Photos: 10	This thread has been sidetracked a couple different ways, a good part of it by me. There does seem to be some interest in others' HRT. I for one am interested in that. That being said I'll wrap up my end of things here. I was in error. I'm on 100mg a week. Got my blood tests back.... normal range on everything. My Serum Testosterone was 431 ng/dL with this lab's reference range 241 - 827. It was taken right in the middle of shots. I found something on the net about this, "...Injectable testosterone enanthate or cypionate: Measure serum testosterone levels midway between injections. If testosterone is >700 ng/dl (24.5 nmol/liter) or <350 ng/dl (12.3 nmol/liter), adjust dose or frequency..." Link: JCEM -- Bhasin et al. 91 (6): 1995 Table 8 I'll let it ride for six months then I'll go in the day before my next shot(Built's advice) and see where the level lands. I couldn't hurt. I don't and have not had any clinical symptoms of low T, BTW. I just asked the doc to check my levels. I've been on it for one year. : )

09-23-2009, 10:53 PM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	100mg makes MUCH better sense. If you don't mind doing so, you'll stay more level if you pin twice a week. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-23-2009, 10:57 PM	#20
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,172	I switched to compounded cream. 1 gram twice daily. I'd recommend this over the shots, but I understand this is a relatively high dose. I see a specialist. With Test C, every 4-5 days worked fine for me. My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-23-2009, 11:02 PM	#21
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	What is the strength of your cream, Pirate? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-28-2009, 07:39 PM	#23
ubergroover Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ct Posts: 19	For me, the test E does the trick. Feel 100% normal,no over aggression, burn fat like I did as a younger man, Same with building muscle. The Cyp was too volatile in my system. It worked great, but it did not agree with my body chemistry.

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