sus250maybe

Oh and one more thing something you will always find in those types of articles is the word "Potential risk". why doesnt it ever say a definite risk? or atleast based on a test subject?

jmorrison

I at least take back the name calling, but I can't edit threads. rereading you don't seem like you are intentionally disrespectful.

Good luck man. I really hope it works out for you, sincerely.

You should bang this chick like a mountain gorilla ~ ROID

Built

There are very few drugs that have definite risks. Those are called "poisons".

Seriously, scientists are cautious and pedantic in their language for a reason - they have to be very, very precise in what they report.

Another huge problem here is the fact that there can be no controlled studies on the effects of steroids on healthy adolescent boys because it's not ethical - we can only extrapolate (that means "guess" by reaching beyond the data we have) based on what we know from accidental use and from cases where steroids may have been used as treatments, for example on burn victims, to prevent tissue wasting. Normals don't behave quite the same as burn victims but some of the processes - sealing the growth plates for instance - happen to all of us eventually.

The growth plates appear to be sensitive to estrogen. When you get a surge in testosterone (for example, in youth, or when you run a cycle) there is so much extra that initially, your aromatase enzymes convert a whole pile of it into estrogen. That's why a lot of teenage boys get gyno. This estrogen shuts off the growth plates in your bones, so you stop growing taller.

In girls, our estrogen surge happens earlier, because of our ovaries. That's why women are usually shorter than men, and it's also why boys who develop masculine features while young are often shorter than average - all that extra test that kicked in early got the estrogen closing the growth plates early as well. And it's why boys who use anabolic steroids are shorter than those who do not. You can read about this on PubMed Home, look up diseases such as Turner syndrome and Sjögren's syndrome, also adolescent hypogonadism, to investigate the effect of early testosterone use in boys.

This was a nice thing to say. Thank you.

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Ben dur

a definite risk would be known as a

"known adverse effect"

the word "risk" implies that it could happen, or could not.

there are precautions that can be taken to reduce all these risks, the first being to let your body mature naturally, although this doesnt seem likely to me.

just make absolute certain that you take the necessary precautions, and LISTEN to your body.

getting your liver enzymes tested, and making sure you have ALL the proper supports BEFORE your commence.

im no expert on the subject, and i cant say that ive been 100% immaculate in my own health throughout the years...

you must understand, we are sincerely just looking out for your well being.

good luck man, and please make sure you do this responsibly if you insist on doing it.

21
5'11"
~175lbs
8% on elec. analyzer

jbish8

I haven't seen a 16 year old take them.......he was 18, my bro in law is now 24 and finally had to get his breasts removed through surgery after suffering for 6 years trying to figure out a less expensive way (insurance won't cover it) to get rid of them. He's now happily married........although he's been struggling to get his wife pregnant for the last year and a half.....I wonder why?
Sure he got really strong, and big for a while, although he never got ripped, because he never learned good nutrition and workout skills. Now he's lost every bit of the gains he once had (for maybe a year), and is recovering from gyno surgery before being able to lift again. He's now asking me what I do to stay "ripped" year round, while continuing to gain lean mass and get stronger. Well it's no secret, and everyone here has already told you, it simply takes some determination, effort, and knowledge.
So what are the chances this could happen to you, you ask? I dunno......but who cares, as long as there is a chance. My brother in law said the same crap you're saying, how he "didn't care about gyno, and could handle all the side effects", but he admits now he just really either hadn't really thought about the consequences or really didn't believe it could happen to him. After reading your responses, you sound exactly like him.
Keep in mind, this was at a time when I would have killed to have his progress naturally. Sure your buddies might look like they're doing the right thing, but I guarantee it will catch up to them.
You have nothing to lose to give yourself a couple of months to try out a different "experiment" first. Your gear will still be there if what we are saying isn't true, but why not hold off for a couple of months and let Built and others help you gain some invaluable knowledge that will help you permanently and even increase your results when you do decide to use.
You say you're responsible, so why don't YOU PROVE IT.

Built

This was a great post. Thank you for this.

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NJ-Surfer

It's unfortunate that you think I'm a jackass. It's also unfortunate that you have put too much emphasis on getting big in a very short period of time. You are 18 and have the best years of your life ahead of you. If you work hard and eat right you will achieve your goals. If you want to take a short cut and use steroids you will miss out on joy of achieving an accomplishment based on hard work and determination. You sound like a very determined individual which is to be admired. Please use that determination in a positive way and eat right, get a good workout program, gets lots of rest, and enjoy the fruits of your labor naturally.

"..well I read somewhere that you got to beware, you can't believe everything you read.." Jack Johnson (surfer, film-maker, musician, environmentalist)

sus250maybe

Im not gonna lie, this got me to think tons of times. Its been on my mind ever since i read it, but sadly, at the end of the day im still driven to do what i wanna do. I dont know what your brother in law did, and im not too sure if the same thing is gonna happen or not considering every single body is uniquely composed and reacts differently. As far as training naturally goes, its working, but not as quick as id like it to. Its more of a mental thing. When i know i have this in me, and its a once in a life opportunity, i will go for taht extra rep, i will eat that 1 extra bit of egg left in my plate just cause i dont wanna be malnutritioned. I will literally interrupt the best sex in the world to drink a protein shake. (No, that wasnt a joke at all).

And as far as NJ surfer goes, im sorry i called you a jackass. I definitly didnt mean it. As far as this goes though, I dont really have control over myself, At this point my mind and heart are separating. My mind is telling me not to after i read that post above. But my heart is still going towards it and well, as of now, it still seems like i will. I havent started yet, nor will i probably till another 2 weeks or so but i know i will.

Ben dur

so your 5'4" and 150lbs 12% bf

i think you got a good frame to work with, but you probably wouldnt want to stunt your growth at 5'4" would you

you should at least hold off till you reach your vertical maximum

sounds like you have plenty of room to build naturally too


and one more thing, if you do a cycle now, with only about a year under your belt, and expect big gains. your joins will seriously be aching by the end of it

my joints have enough trouble keeping up with my natural progress...

lets start with some basics BEFORE you start

what does your program look like
if possible give us specifics

21
5'11"
~175lbs
8% on elec. analyzer

Shadowcam

I guarentee with a few adjustments to your diet and training, you could make dramatic improvements without AAS.

The more gains you make naturally and the longer you train without AAS, the better you will respond and maintain gains recieved from AAS.

Gains from steroids are not permenant, It is very pointless starting a cycle premature as the chances of keeping any gains are slim to none.

Post your diet and training program.

sus250maybe

as much as my brain tells me to go natural, I just cant. Like theres no way i could live with being natural anymore. Oh and my vertical maximum im guessing thats another word for height?, I reached my maximum height due to fully fused growth plates.

m11

It's probably a good idea to learn to listen to your brain.

Getting Started by Built
LG Sciences Board Representative


These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by
LG Sciences, LLC.

Ben dur

Vertical maximum is just my way of saying your genetic potential in height. As far as not "wanting" to be natural anymore, wait till people accuse you of being on steroids, you'll hate that! I get it all natty. And there's nothing you can do or your in "roid rage"... That shit is so annoying..

Then later you'll here about natural body building, some of the guys are ridiculous, and all natty (where's merk at? Oh yeah not in the anabolic zone) and that will make you jealous that you can't claim that your all natty. Even though you will end up lying and saying you are all natural...

The truth is society loves bodybuilders, society wants to see freak massives and veins bursting from every limb. But simultaneously, society shuns steroid users... "roid head" "everyone on that team is on steroids"

you will never know your true genetic potential if you experiment with steroids. And your true genetic potential is probably much more extreme than you THINK it is

in my honest opinion you are making an unwise and immature decision. I urge you to reconsider

21
5'11"
~175lbs
8% on elec. analyzer

jbish8

Ok Sus, this will be my last shot to put things in perspective for you. Honestly the only reason I'm spending time on this, is that I've seen first hand the effects of the decisions you are weighing, both the positives, and negatives, and want to make sure you go into this fully aware, so I thought I'd pull out some pics if that will help you understand.

This first photo is of my bro in law at around 19. I couldn't find one from earlier but he was about 20 lbs lighter just one year earlier. This is after his first cycle and pct. He had no clue (just like me) about proper nutrition and workout habits however the gear allowed him some leeway and so he got pretty big and strong for his age, although notice his BF% is still too high to see abs.


This next photo is of him after his second cycle and pct just a few months later with probly another 15 to 20 lbs on him. You'll notice not all of the weight gain is lean mass due to to the lack of knowledge.


This is him now at about 25 Lbs less than the second picture and with more fat and less lean mass than ever before. This is also about a month before his surgery. Believe it or not, he has always eaten, lifted and done cardio in pretty much the same way through out the last 6-7 years and this is his honest end result for that time including 2 cycles of roids and pcts.


Now at risk of sounding like I'm bragging, I want to show you what can be done naturally and at 30 years old with much less natural test than you most likely have.

This photo is of me at 31 (and in the worst shape I've been in). I actually decided to change after seeing myself in this photo. I had been lifting (if you could call it that) and thinking I was doing things right for the 15 years prior to this photo.


This is me now. I simply learned everything I could about proper diet and workout habits, made a goal, and didn't quit till I acheived it. Believe it or not it came much easier than I expected once I focused my efforts in the right direction.

My point is this. You should take that determination you have to jump into to steroids, and focus it into learning the right way to reach your goals, and I promise you, there will be no question about what will happen. I'm not saying steroids don't have their place (I don't do them for religious reasons), but if you don't know what you're doing in the diet and workout areas, then your really just wasting your money and possibly health in the long run. I guarantee you can get better results than what your getting now by simply employing some of the tricks and tecniques people on this very forum are willing to share. You should give yourself 2 months to prove me wrong, and put all that same stubborness you've exhibited on this thread into changing what you're doing wrong into something right. Like I said before, your gear will still be there if you still wanna do it, and at least you'll get better results from them, by gaining some knowledge on how to do things properly. Then you won't waste a perfectly good cycle. Good luck.

jchappj

Great work jbish! What is your height & weight in that pic? That is a testament to hard work and dedication. Congratulations!

Peace!

jbish8

Thanks.
5'-9"
170 lbs.
8%

Built

jbish, thank you for putting into pictures and words what absolutely needed to be said.

You look phenomenal.

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jbish8

Thanks Built, unfortunately it looks as though it's falling on deaf ears, but maybe it will help someone else.

DiGiTaL

Lol look at this guy's diet, 320 protein and only 150 carbs. No wonder your complaining.

You need to learn training and nutrition first before stepping foot into AAS.

I love how cocky he acts that is 'ready' the 'chosen' one. BS, we get cocky little fuckers like you all the time thinking they can change the world, you need to realize we are trying to help you.

If you trained hard for just one week, and ate really healthy and actually stayed focused you'll notice you don't need any steroids.



Also, girls don't care how you look, incase your trying to impress anyone.

Stats: Weight: 183lbs | BF: 13%
My Cutting Journal come motivate me.

sus250maybe

You might be right about the diet. but your not right about the fact that i think im the chosen one. im not trying to change the fucking world. I dont care about the world. I care about myself, and i realize you guys are trying to help me and ive mentioned it multiple times. This posts here have made me think a shitloada times especially the one with pictures above but even if i train naturally for another 2 or 3 months and realize my gains. I would still think that steroids could go farther then that. Once again its a mental thing, when i know i have it in me, i will go that extra mile just to get that extra carb in.

Built

Sus250, you might be surprised at what a difference it would make to go into your cycle with a running start. We all recognize you're going to do this, so let's move on from here and get you to a position where you'll at least benefit properly from the (expensive, illegal, risky) drugs you are about to inject into your body.

Do you remember when you first started lifting? Did you have any muscles you had a hard time connecting to? For me, it was quads and lats. Oh, and delts. Okay, and pecs lol - I'd go through the motions and nothing seemed to really fire. But I kept at it, and eventually I got to the point where my nerves and my muscles were at least occasionally chatting with each other and I started to really FEEL the muscles working, feel the pumps and the form. That's when things REALLY took off for me.

Had I run a cycle from the beginning, it wouldn't have done shit for me. But if I had chosen to run a cycle after I nailed the lifts, totally different story.

I'm sure you remember this part, yes? (And yes, I'm on juice. I take testosterone transdermal cream for hormone replacement, and it's a tiny amount - basically about 1mg a day in my blood stream - but trust me, I feel it). My accidental HRT "cycle" has worked WONDERS for me because I was already so trained and dialled in.

Now, how about we help you really get your training and your diet dialed in BEFORE you start, so instead of wasting your cycle while we get your routine worked out, you'll have your form and your diet down COLD, and totally NAIL your cycle? You're still doing a bit of homework about your ancillaries anyway, and we're all keen to help you do this. You'd be a fool to turn down the kind of free help you're about to get here. Seriously. I won't try to talk you out of this, you're almost nineteen, you're old enough to drink in my province and you're old enough to vote in your country, your choices are your own problem, but seriously, take this offer.

Dammit. Where's Merkaba. Sus250, I helped him prep for a natty show and he came in second. Looked amazing. You've seen what the members here can do with less natural test than you have and with no additional assistance. Go into this with a running start, seriously, because if you feel you need a cycle at 19, it is patently obvious your training and your diet aren't up to snuff, and it's going to be so easy to get you to where it is. Do that, THEN start.

Come on... I know you want too...

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DiGiTaL

Merkaba came 2nd? Wow thats very impressive of him and yourself Built.

Is he all natural?

Stats: Weight: 183lbs | BF: 13%
My Cutting Journal come motivate me.

Built

Merc's lifelong natty. He did all the work, really, I just helped him show it off.

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mixologist

O.K. I've read enough.. your obviosly not gonna listen and your gonna do it wrong and without advise or right with advice!!??!! 1st of all stay away from Sustanon all together! You truely do wanna keep your Plasma levels as even as possible. Next you ARE Gonna look for something such as Test. Enanthate and try to do 400mgs a week for no longer than 10 weeks, Eating 5000 to 7000 healthy calories a day. Cut it to 300mgs of Test Enth., on week 11, 200mgs at week 12, and 100mgs at week 13. After that your definately gonna wanna use your clomid regiment at your age.. O.K.? normally under no sercomstances at your age and with your workout and diet regiment nobody should be giiving you advise on AAS! Does that work for you?

sus250maybe

first of all you might be right. but at this point i think your wrong as hell. because i have done some basic research and from what i know. I should wait atleast 3 weeks once im off of test E (thats if i were to take it) to take clomid. (Test E has long esters from what i understand). 2nd of all your pyramiding down, does not make a difference to recovery AT ALL. and HCG would definitly be useful. So, i might not be a genius, and might have it ALL WRONG, but your just making it worse by giving me wrong advice. And for everyone here believe it or not, i MIGHT of decided not to take anything for a while. MIGHT.

Built

Okay, everybody back off for a bit. Sus250's clearly doing some reading and he's taking it all in right now. He's got some decisions to make and he knows it, now he has better information with which to make a more informed decision, which is what he came here for in the first place.

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mixologist

The whole idea of cutting down saves you from having to wait three weeks before using your Clomid while still making somewhat small gains and lessoning your water retention. thats why to cut down slowly not cause it helps with your recovery.

Built

I'm going to lock this thread for a few days while everyone cools down. If there's a need, I'll re-open it but for now, this has run its course.

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