Novice cycles

**Glycomann** · 02-14-2010, 09:44 AM

Some good novice cycles in my mind

1-12 Test C or E 400-500 mg/w
1-12 Deca Durabolin 400 mg/w
8-12 Dianabol 30 mg/d
1-14 Adex 0.5 mg EOD
14-18 Clomid 100/50/50/50/-/-
14-18 Nolvadex -/-/20/20/20/20

1-12 Test C or E 400-500 mg/w
1-12 Equipoise 400 mg/w
8-12 Stanozolol 30 mg/d
1-14 Adex 0.5 mg EOD
14-18 Clomid 100/50/50/50/-/-
14-18 Nolvadex -/-/20/20/20/20

1-12 Test C or E 400-500 mg/w
1-12 Primobolan 500 mg/w
8-12 Anavar 40-50 mg/d
1-14 Adex 0.5 mg EOD
14-18 Clomid 100/50/50/50/-/-
14-18 Nolvadex -/-/20/20/20/20
note: primobolan is probably the most faked AAS

1-12 Sustanon 500 mg/w
1-12 Parabolan 228 mg/w
8-12 Stanozolol 30 mg/d
1-14 Adex 0.5 mg EOD
14-18 Clomid 100/50/50/50/-/-
14-18 Nolvadex -/-/20/20/20/20
Note: Parabolin is difficult to obtain but is the only trenbolone developed for human use and tends to give less side effects

Rational for oral timing: Gains tend to diminish at or around week 8. This is likely for a miriad of reasons one being an increase in myostatin expression. C17 methyl alkylated compounds, most orals, do not bind tightly to the androgen receptor. Rather, they tend to act through modulation of glucocorticoid pathways and are thus thought to be anti-catabolic rather than anabolic. This is a rather general statement of course. Still, the idea is that by introduction of one of these compounds at the plateau point in a cycle allows another pathway to become active and thus gains are more continuous.

Rational for testosterone in all cycles: Test is required for many functions in the male body. Briefly, these include activity in the lymbic system, sexual function, conversion to estrogen which is important for bone and joint health, and many others. failure to use it often leads to sexual dysfunction, joint pain and brain fog.

Rational for use of an additional anabolic: Anabolic steroids were developed to eliminate or limit the negative aspects of testosterones such as aromatization to estrogens and androgenic effects such as increased body hair growth and prostate enlargement. So, rather than use 2x the amount of testosterone in a cycle and be forced to deal with added side effects and the requirement for additional ancillary compounds the idea here is to use compounds that will not add to those problems but add anabolism.

Rational for use of Adex: Many users will have estrogenic problems even at 400-500 mg/w of testosterone. In the TRT setting some even have problems on 100 mg/w. Adex is a second generation type 1 aromatase inhibitor and is generally well tolerated. Roughly 0.5 mg every other day tends to reduce estrogen in the average male body by half, which may roughly place estrogen close to or in the normal range. Of course blood studies are required to dial this in.

PCT rational: Clomid was developed to act on the arcuate nucleus cells in the hypothalamus by blocking estrogen receptors, which under normal circumstances inhibits the secretion of GNRH, a protein hormone required to stimulate release of FSH and LH from the pituitary. These later 2 protein hormones then stimulate the tested to produce sperm and testosterone respectively among other things. Clomid is better than some SERMs for this purpose as it was selected for this purpose more or less (actually developed to stimulate the same cells in the female and thus ovulation). After approximately 2-3 weeks clomifene looses some of its effectiveness. Here is where Nolvadex is useful. It also binds to the arcuate nucleus cells (as well as ER in breast and uterine tissues) and has been shown to restore GnRH signaling under reduced clomifene response. Use of the two together thus should be more effective and as an added bonus will guard against estrogen dominance which can occur during PCT and lead to gynocomastia.

**GeorgeForemanRules** · 02-14-2010, 04:39 PM

Orals for a novice, nope this is not needed at all.

Test dose the same as Deca....no way, very bad advice.

Stanozolol or Parabolan for a novice? again bad advice.

12 week cycles for a novice? Nope 6-8 weeks of short esters are much better and safer.

**Glycomann** · 02-14-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Orals for a novice, nope this is not needed at all.

Test dose the same as Deca....no way, very bad advice.

Stanozolol or Parabolan for a novice? again bad advice.

12 week cycles for a novice? Nope 6-8 weeks of short esters are much better and safer.

I disagree. I don't buy into the test must be higher than 19 nor either. nothing wrong with 4-6 weeks of orals. See my rational. Maybe you confused novice with beginner.

**diz** · 02-14-2010, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Orals for a novice, nope this is not needed at all.

Test dose the same as Deca....no way, very bad advice.

Stanozolol or Parabolan for a novice? again bad advice.

12 week cycles for a novice? Nope 6-8 weeks of short esters are much better and safer.

novice means 3rd, 4th, 5th or more cycles. i agree with test being close or equal to deca for the first run or two. the optimum dosage range for deca is 400-600mg a week. you'd have to jump up to 600-800+mg a week of test just to keep it higher than the deca, which can cause other problems for a novice. i say give it a shot, if you run into problems you can always lower the deca or raise the test. but, no need to start out with a very high dose of test or a uselessly low dose of deca.

**GeorgeForemanRules** · 02-14-2010, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by diz

novice means 3rd, 4th, 5th or more cycles.

That is opinion not fact. To me a novice is someone who has run 0-2 cycles, just a step above a beginner. But this is a debatable thing and not worth our time.

Other that that, Glycomann's advice about orals, steroid types, drug balance and cycle length is just God awful.

**diz** · 02-14-2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

That is opinion not fact. To me a novice is someone who has run 0-2 cycles, just a step above a beginner. But this is a debatable thing and not worth our time.

Other that that, Glycomann's advice about orals, steroid types, drug balance and cycle length is just God awful.

lengths are standard, dosages are standard, compounds are standard. oral at the beginning or end is debatable. short or long esters are debatable. while i get the argument for short esters for beginners OR novices, let's be honest, most beginners and novices don't want to be a pin cushion their first few runs. outside of that, what makes them so awful in your opinion?

**Glycomann** · 02-15-2010, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

That is opinion not fact. To me a novice is someone who has run 0-2 cycles, just a step above a beginner. But this is a debatable thing and not worth our time.

Other that that, Glycomann's advice about orals, steroid types, drug balance and cycle length is just God awful.

Your opinion is in the minority then. Zero cycles is a beginner by any definition. It' easy to attack without substance. You really have offered nothing at all to this thread other than stroking your own ego and yelling no.

**downtown** · 02-15-2010, 09:08 AM

the only thing i can disagree with is using Eq at 400mgs a week for 12 weeks. Through the experience of others and myself, EQ is effective at 600mgs for 20weeks, anything other that that is just short changing yourself and ending the cycle just as its starting to take off.

Other than that, looks good to me.

**Glycomann** · 02-15-2010, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by downtown

the only thing i can disagree with is using Eq at 400mgs a week for 12 weeks. Through the experience of others and myself, EQ is effective at 600mgs for 20weeks, anything other that that is just short changing yourself and ending the cycle just as its starting to take off.

Other than that, looks good to me.

Yeah a lot of guys seem to feel this way with equipoise. I recall the first 2 times I used it back in the late 80s. It did seem to be really startign to kick at about week 10. Back then it was only 50 mg/ml for the most part. That was before all these UGL companies popped up with the 200 mg/ml concentrations. Back in the 80s a common dose was a bit lower simply for comfort really. 5 or 6 cc was probably averge. Maybe part of the late "kick in" bit with equipoise has to do with the traditionally lower doses used back a decade or so ago. One thing you have to keep in mind with equipoise especially at high dose is increased RBCs and BP. So if you'fr going to use 500 mg and up you should closely monitor your hematocrit and related blood values and BP.

**downtown** · 02-15-2010, 10:30 PM

^ and take baby asprin twice a day too

**downNdirty** · 04-15-2012, 08:46 AM

I'm wantind to do my first cycle. I'm 41 and been lifting lil over 20 years. I'm 6'3 250lbs. Have had a few lifting injuries lately and was wanting to try a cycle. Was thinking of 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks and 250mg of deca for 10 weeks. Does this sound like a decent first cycle for me?

**downNdirty** · 04-15-2012, 08:50 AM

Hey Glyco was needing some advice. I'm wantind to do my first cycle. I'm 41 and been lifting lil over 20 years. I'm 6'3 250lbs. Have had a few lifting injuries lately and was wanting to try a cycle. Was thinking of 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks and 250mg of deca for 10 weeks. Does this sound like a decent first cycle for me?

**Glycomann** · 04-15-2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by downNdirty

Hey Glyco was needing some advice. I'm wantind to do my first cycle. I'm 41 and been lifting lil over 20 years. I'm 6'3 250lbs. Have had a few lifting injuries lately and was wanting to try a cycle. Was thinking of 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks and 250mg of deca for 10 weeks. Does this sound like a decent first cycle for me?

Given you are in good health I would say that is fine for a first cycle. I would also advise a physical and blood work. Some of the younger juicers here will say no need for deca but since you are older the nandrolone ester will help to reduce inflammation in the joints and make the cycle both more productive and more comfortable. I still like nandrolone. My joints are beat u[ from a lifetime of sports and weight training. There is a chance that it may effect your libido. Also since you are older you may tend toward estrogen dominance. It may be advisable to use 0.5 mg of Arimidex every other day to control testosterone conversion to estrogen. After your cycle you will need PCT as outlined in this rather old thread.

**thr3e43** · 04-15-2012, 12:25 PM

There's no reason for a novice to be running deca doses that high. In fact, I'm inclined to believe the best cycle for a first-timer involves testosterone only. Just my opinion. If you want to run something else concurrently, go for it. But keep the doses mild.

**Digitalash** · 04-15-2012, 02:14 PM

500mg test and 200mg deca just for joints since you're older and are dealing with injuries apparently

use an on cycle AI and full pct, hcg on cycle as well wouldn't be a bad idea

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