Thread: maxx and minimum hgh you take?

I take 6 ui since now 9 week still painfull joints but the pain is moving from my shoulders moving now to fingers , from my hips, nox to my knees and feet...
it slows dows my training as it is quite painfull when I train...
I gained 5 kg but my weight machine indicates that I gained 2% of bf
from 13 to 15%...strange as I look leaner...
Victor told me that the pain should disapear fater 2 to 3 months...hope it will stop soon...I am fed up as I feel very tired all the time

2iu used with long igf

10iu on training days with slin/igf (via IM). 4iu when off (sub-q). Pharm grade Serostim. At first, 3iu was KILLING my joints, especially my wrists. But, over a year later and I don't get those sides any longer.

/V

it take a few months or so to get use to the high hgh doses. but it level out

6 to 10 iu's every time

Originally Posted by Didsky

Victor told me that the pain should disapear fater 2 to 3 months...hope it will stop soon...I am fed up as I feel very tired all the time

This can be a bit difficult to guage without some more info, some of us use pharm grade, others use gen blues, etc. 6iu of pharm grade could be equal to 2iu of Chinese gens.

What are you using and what is your age? Yes, I told you that in my case the nastiest of sides vanished completely by month 3. But, we are all different and react differently to different things. I hope your sides go away quickly bro. Are you on a AAS cycle now as well?

/V

cool guys, i take somatropin or humantorpin.
will try for summer 10iu a day for 2-3 weeks.

why is it necessary to take IGF at the same time?
what will be the effect of IGF with hgh
Could you tell me the difference between IGF or IGF long R3 ad the HGH (somatotropin)?
Thanks

I've been told taking gh different time of the day yields results. AM is better for healing, PM better for weight loss.

GH is best taken AM if you are pinning only once a day...if you are taking more than say 4iu a day, you will probably want to break your shots in two, early am and early afternoon. Avoid taking it at night because that's when our bodies make their own HGH.

IGF is not necessary, but with proper use one can yield some fantastic results by an effect called hyperplasia, the slitting and growing of new muscle cells. This takes a very long time to happen, possibly up to a year. Both types of IGF (insulin like growth factors) can be very effective, the short acting one is best for spot injection, the other is not. HGH has a completely different sequence and in no way works like IGF. Now, imagine you grew new muscle cells...adding HGH and test for example will amplify the effect of the new muscle cells that are going to start growing.

I combine insulin with HGH/IGF and there is not a more powerful recipe out there (especially combined with test and other anabolics). I in no way condone anyone to do this unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing as this is not only the strongest type of cycle, it's also the most dangerous. One little slip can permanently mess you up for life, even kill you.

/V

Victor is right.

I thought that HGH is already what causes hyperplasia. Am I wrong Victor?

No, you are not wrong.

Hyperplasia can be caused by use of test, HGH, or IGF. HGH has a lot more properties and benefits than IGF. IGF takes a very long time to work properly, but used right, it can be some incredible stuff. I have never run it alone, but in conjunction with slin and HGH...it's truly some potent stuff and works wonders in the long run.

/V

Originally Posted by Didsky

I thought that HGH is already what causes hyperplasia. Am I wrong Victor?

No, you are not wrong. In fact, it will cause more than IGF-1Lr3, since Lr3 works mostly systemically and does not bind locally harldy at all. There is a lot of science behind this, so I am just going to say it is actually pushed away form the cells it needs to bind with directly to cause hyperplasia. The majority enters the bloodstream and works only systemically.

Now GH will actually cause the muscles cells to create it's own IGF-1 and MGF which is the factors that really matter for our use in muscle growth. I have even read that when systemic levels of IGF-1 are increased, it can inhibit these factors defeating the purpose of what we are trying to do all together through s negative feed back mechanism.

Originally Posted by Dragon_MD

No, you are not wrong. In fact, it will cause more than IGF-1Lr3, since Lr3 works mostly systemically and does not bind locally harldy at all. There is a lot of science behind this, so I am just going to say it is actually pushed away form the cells it needs to bind with directly to cause hyperplasia. The majority enters the bloodstream and works only systemically.

Now GH will actually cause the muscles cells to create it's own IGF-1 and MGF which is the factors that really matter for our use in muscle growth. I have even read that when systemic levels of IGF-1 are increased, it can inhibit these factors defeating the purpose of what we are trying to do all together through s negative feed back mechanism.

Thanks for that brother, as always good info!

Do you have any studies or abstracts you could post on this topic?

I should also note that GH induces a positive nitrogen balance, increased amino acid absorption in skeletal muscle, and increased protein synthesis in muscles. Now IGF-1 administration actually decreases Gh secretion. IGF-1 is increased with GH usage, but so is IGFBP-3 which allows it to remain active longer. IGF-1 administration alone actually may cause a decrease in IGFBP-3 levels leading to much faster clearance times.

Basically, Gh is much more potent and effective than IGF-1 in any form.

LOL, here ya go:

45. Kostyo JL. 1968. Rapid effects of growth hormone on amino acid transport and protein synthesis. Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 148:389–407

46. Wolf RF, Heslin MJ, Newman E, Pearlstone DB, Gonenne A, Brennan MF. 1992. Growth hormone and insulin combine to improve whole-body and skeletal muscle protein kinetics. Surgery 112:284–91

47. Horber FF, Haymond MW. 1990. Human growth hormone prevents the protein catabolic side effects of prednisone in humans. J. Clin. Invest. 86:265–72

48. FryburgDA. 1994. Insulin-like growth factor I exerts growth hormone- and insulinlike actions on human muscle protein metabolism. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 267:E331–E36

49. Russell-Jones DL,Weissberger AJ, Bowes SB, Kelly JM, Thomason M, et al. 1993. The effects of growth hormone on protein metabolism in adult growth hormone deficient patients. Clin. Endocrinol. 38:427–31

50. Richelsen B, Pedersen SB, Borglum JD, Moller-Pedersen T, Jorgensen J, Jorgensen JO. 1994. Growth hormone treatment of obese women for 5 weeks: effect on body composition and adipose tissue LPL activity. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 266:E211–E16

51. Ottosson M, Vikman-Adolfsson K, Enerback S, Elander A, Bjorntorp P, Eden S. 1995. Growth hormone inhibits lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 80:936–41

52. Dietz J, Schwartz J. 1991. Growth hormone alters lipolysis and hormone-sensitive lipase activity in 3T3-F442A adipocytes. Metabolism 40:800–6

53. Asayama K, Amemiya S, Kusano S, Kato K. 1984. Growth-hormone-induced changes in postheparin plasma lipoprotein lipase and hepatic triglyceride lipase activities. Metabolism 33:29–31

54. Rosenfeld RG, Wilson DM, Dollar LA, Bennett A, Hintz RL. 1982. Both human pituitary growth hormone and recombinantDNA- derived human growth hormone cause insulin resistance at a postreceptor site. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 54:1033– 38

55. Goodman HM. 1984. Biological activity of bacterial derived human growth hormone in adipose tissue of hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinology 114:131–35

56. Carter-Su C, King AP, Argetsinger LS, Smit LS, Vanderkuur J, Campbell GS. 1996. Signalling pathway of GH. Endocr. J. 43:S65–70 (Suppl.)

57. Randle PJ, Garland PB, Hales CN, Newsholme EA. 1963. The glucose-fatty acid cycle: its role in insulin sensitivity and the metabolic disturbances of diabetes mellitus. Lancet 1:785–89

58. Guler HP, Zapf J, Scheiwiller E, Froesch ER. 1988. Recombinant human insulinlike growth factor I stimulates growth and has distinct effects on organ size in hypophysectomized rats. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 85:4889–93

59. Clark R, Carlsson L, Mortensen D, Cronin M. 1994. Additive effects on body growth of insulin-like growth factor-I and growth hormone in hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinol. Metab. 1:49–54

60. Clark R, Mortensen D, Carlsson L. 1995. Insulin-like growth factor-I and growth hormone (GH) have distinct and overlapping effects in GH-deficient rats. Endocrine 3:297–304

61. Fielder PJ, Mortensen DL, Mallet P, Carlsson B, Baxter RC, Clark RG. 1996. Differential long-term effects of insulinlike growth factor-I (IGF-I) growth hormone (GH), and IGF-I plus GH on body growth and IGF binding proteins in hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinology 137:1913–20

62. LeRoith D, Yanowski J, Kaldjian EP, Jaffe ES, LeRoith T, et al. 1996. The effects of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I on the immune system of aged female monkeys. Endocrinology 137:1071– 79

63. Clark RG, Mortensen D, Reifsnyder D, Mohler M, Etcheverry T, Mukku V. 1993. Recombinant human insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 (rhIGFBP-3): effects on the glycemic and growth promoting activities of rhIGF-1 in the rat. Growth Regul. 3:50–52

Very well said, Dragon!

/V

Originally Posted by Dragon_MD

LOL, here ya go:

45. Kostyo JL. 1968. Rapid effects of growth hormone on amino acid transport and protein synthesis. Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 148:389–407

46. Wolf RF, Heslin MJ, Newman E, Pearlstone DB, Gonenne A, Brennan MF. 1992. Growth hormone and insulin combine to improve whole-body and skeletal muscle protein kinetics. Surgery 112:284–91

47. Horber FF, Haymond MW. 1990. Human growth hormone prevents the protein catabolic side effects of prednisone in humans. J. Clin. Invest. 86:265–72

48. FryburgDA. 1994. Insulin-like growth factor I exerts growth hormone- and insulinlike actions on human muscle protein metabolism. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 267:E331–E36

49. Russell-Jones DL,Weissberger AJ, Bowes SB, Kelly JM, Thomason M, et al. 1993. The effects of growth hormone on protein metabolism in adult growth hormone deficient patients. Clin. Endocrinol. 38:427–31

50. Richelsen B, Pedersen SB, Borglum JD, Moller-Pedersen T, Jorgensen J, Jorgensen JO. 1994. Growth hormone treatment of obese women for 5 weeks: effect on body composition and adipose tissue LPL activity. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 266:E211–E16

51. Ottosson M, Vikman-Adolfsson K, Enerback S, Elander A, Bjorntorp P, Eden S. 1995. Growth hormone inhibits lipoprotein lipase activity in human adipose tissue. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 80:936–41

52. Dietz J, Schwartz J. 1991. Growth hormone alters lipolysis and hormone-sensitive lipase activity in 3T3-F442A adipocytes. Metabolism 40:800–6

53. Asayama K, Amemiya S, Kusano S, Kato K. 1984. Growth-hormone-induced changes in postheparin plasma lipoprotein lipase and hepatic triglyceride lipase activities. Metabolism 33:29–31

54. Rosenfeld RG, Wilson DM, Dollar LA, Bennett A, Hintz RL. 1982. Both human pituitary growth hormone and recombinantDNA- derived human growth hormone cause insulin resistance at a postreceptor site. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 54:1033– 38

55. Goodman HM. 1984. Biological activity of bacterial derived human growth hormone in adipose tissue of hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinology 114:131–35

56. Carter-Su C, King AP, Argetsinger LS, Smit LS, Vanderkuur J, Campbell GS. 1996. Signalling pathway of GH. Endocr. J. 43:S65–70 (Suppl.)

57. Randle PJ, Garland PB, Hales CN, Newsholme EA. 1963. The glucose-fatty acid cycle: its role in insulin sensitivity and the metabolic disturbances of diabetes mellitus. Lancet 1:785–89

58. Guler HP, Zapf J, Scheiwiller E, Froesch ER. 1988. Recombinant human insulinlike growth factor I stimulates growth and has distinct effects on organ size in hypophysectomized rats. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 85:4889–93

59. Clark R, Carlsson L, Mortensen D, Cronin M. 1994. Additive effects on body growth of insulin-like growth factor-I and growth hormone in hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinol. Metab. 1:49–54

60. Clark R, Mortensen D, Carlsson L. 1995. Insulin-like growth factor-I and growth hormone (GH) have distinct and overlapping effects in GH-deficient rats. Endocrine 3:297–304

61. Fielder PJ, Mortensen DL, Mallet P, Carlsson B, Baxter RC, Clark RG. 1996. Differential long-term effects of insulinlike growth factor-I (IGF-I) growth hormone (GH), and IGF-I plus GH on body growth and IGF binding proteins in hypophysectomized rats. Endocrinology 137:1913–20

62. LeRoith D, Yanowski J, Kaldjian EP, Jaffe ES, LeRoith T, et al. 1996. The effects of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I on the immune system of aged female monkeys. Endocrinology 137:1071– 79

63. Clark RG, Mortensen D, Reifsnyder D, Mohler M, Etcheverry T, Mukku V. 1993. Recombinant human insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 (rhIGFBP-3): effects on the glycemic and growth promoting activities of rhIGF-1 in the rat. Growth Regul. 3:50–52

LOL! thanks for burying me =(

Any one of these in particular that best makes your point?

HAHA, I thought you might like that. Bro, I just cut and paste some of the ones I have listed. I have literally read 100's of studies. I just right down and try to remember the key points for our use.