Thread: First cycle.. Any adjustments necessary?

Not so bad for a first cycle. Slightly higher than a norm, but not outrageous. I personally suggest the prop be shot ed, but others are going to disagree. I have two suggestions. I personally would add in NPP at 100mg eod or 50mg ed and switch the nolvadex to clomid if you did add it. Well, I suggest clomid anyways. I also feel HCG is very beneficial on cycles and it's pretty cheap anyways. 250-500iu twice a week is plenty.

Just watch for sides of over suppression of estro, or not enough suppression. You are just going to have to feel that out if you don't get blood work.

I agree with Dragon but you may consider a longer ester of testosterone like cypionate or enanthate. Pinning prop frequently for 12 weeks gets old fast especially on a first run.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

I agree with Dragon but you may consider a longer ester of testosterone like cypionate or enanthate. Pinning prop frequently for 12 weeks gets old fast especially on a first run.

I almost suggested that too bro. Just figured he know what he was getting himself into. And that is especially true if he gets a painful prop. But T prop and NPP is great together!

I don't like using test prop when running a long bulk cycle. When I cut, it's prop ED.


/V

I thought about running long ester, but from what I have read prop gives more dry gains, which is what I'm looking for. But, I imagine squats after a painful pin isn't too fun, so I think I'll take your advice on that.

So should I definitely run test with something else? I've researched that its best to run test alone the first cycle, that way you know how you react to it. But I've also read that it should be stacked.

I'm a little worried about running NPP. I don't really want to run something that shuts down the HPTA function that severely. Would the Aromisin have me covered with that? Or would it be better to run something like T-bol, especially since I'm looking for dryer gains?

When I used prop I was ready to be done by the eigth week every time, but you can play that by ear.... Personally I did ED injecting once and EOD twice, and I didn't notice any difference in mood or sides or anything... I was just sore in more places when pinning ED since I respond like shit to prop

Better hope you don't, but you won't know till you try.

Originally Posted by Motorcycled00d

I thought about running long ester, but from what I have read prop gives more dry gains, which is what I'm looking for. But, I imagine squats after a painful pin isn't too fun, so I think I'll take your advice on that.

So should I definitely run test with something else? I've researched that its best to run test alone the first cycle, that way you know how you react to it. But I've also read that it should be stacked.

I'm a little worried about running NPP. I don't really want to run something that shuts down the HPTA function that severely. Would the Aromisin have me covered with that? Or would it be better to run something like T-bol, especially since I'm looking for dryer gains?

I always said I'd never use nandrolone before I decided to stay on, so I hear ya there.

The test only... I'm sure you read you do this so you can then add somehing else and if you respond bad you know what it was, but does anyone respond badly to test??? Just don't be running grams of the shit, and if you feel lethargic or loose appetite while running an oral also, you can bet it's the oral Or if you loose sex drive or get ED, don't blame the test... pretty simple IMO. Every male loves test!

Bloat's temporary. Take an AI and eat clean, do your cardio, you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by PanterA

I always said I'd never use nandrolone before I decided to stay on, so I hear ya there.

The test only... I'm sure you read you do this so you can then add somehing else and if you respond bad you know what it was, but does anyone respond badly to test??? Just don't be running grams of the shit, and if you feel lethargic or loose appetite while running an oral also, you can bet it's the oral Or if you loose sex drive or get ED, don't blame the test... pretty simple IMO. Every male loves test!

Bloat's temporary. Take an AI and eat clean, do your cardio, you'll be fine.

Yeah, I'm in college, no amount of muscle is worth not being able to have sex haha.

I guess the most commonly feared bad reaction to test is gyno, but I feel like if I'm running aromasin and have nolva on hand I don't really have much to worry about there. Also, no one in my family is bald, and I can get blood work done whenever.

So what about finishing off the cycle with T-bol for the last 4 or 6 weeks?

Something I actually worried about is my ability to balance out my hormones after. I have Lyme Disease, but it has not effected my hormone level. Does anyone know if it would complicate things too much to a run a cycle if I have Lyme, or does anyone know someone that has done it?

I have no idea on the lyme disease...

Test only for a first time is a good idea. It's what I did for my first 2 cycles. I just used a higher dose the second time. Now I will atleast throw an oral in at some point, or run other injectables... I'll never do a test only cycle again.

Clarify t bol??? Legal supp, or turinabol (which I know nothing about, but others will need to know)?

If you want to run an oral I would go with havoc (legal, but a steroid). It's very low on negative sides, but it will deliver. I would say d bol but you want dry gains (which havoc is). If you run it the first 4 weeks the test won't have fully kicked in by then anyways... And you want havoc, not another version.

200mg of test prop is going to shut you down just as hard as with npp added. SHut down is shut down.

T-bol is worthless, IMO, if your going to run an oral at the end, use var at 50-100mg ed, and if you have the npp in there, you could go with winny that way. If you want a real bulk cycle go with the testP/NPP. You'll love it.

I am not one to really condone test only cycles. The reason being that test quite drastically reduces collagen synthesis. And most first time AAS user's are reallly not at their full potential, especially with their strength of tendons and ligaments. This quite easily and often leads to connective tissue damage and inflammation. This is why I always suggest at least a low dose of preferably deca, or anavar. As they promote the most increases in collagen synthesis.

Originally Posted by Dragon_MD

T-bol is worthless, IMO, if your going to run an oral at the end, use var at 50-100mg ed, and if you have the npp in there, you could go with winny that way. If you want a real bulk cycle go with the testP/NPP. You'll love it.

I am not one to really condone test only cycles. The reason being that test quite drastically reduces collagen synthesis. And most first time AAS user's are reallly not at their full potential, especially with their strength of tendons and ligaments. This quite easily and often leads to connective tissue damage and inflammation. This is why I always suggest at least a low dose of preferably deca, or anavar. As they promote the most increases in collagen synthesis.

Funny you should say that, I just added 150mg of Deca to my 600mg of cyp last week =)

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Funny you should say that, I just added 150mg of Deca to my 600mg of cyp last week =)

Interesting. All I keep reading is "estrogen is necassary for muscle growth." Do you disagree with this completely or just partially?

Originally Posted by njc

Interesting. All I keep reading is "estrogen is necassary for muscle growth." Do you disagree with this completely or just partially?

Estrogen rises very high on cycles of aromatizing compounds and that rise causes many side effects so controlling E2 is important. There is no evidence that I know of that shows excessive Estradiol causes LBM gains. If you keep E2 in the normal range for men you will have good growth on cycle. It is pretty hard to crush estro to very low levels with aromasin or arimidex so I would have no problem with guys using either every day.

Alrighty thanks for all the input! Dragon, how does this look?

12 week cycle:

Test C - 300mg pin every monday and thursday.

Deca (can't get NPP, so I've gotta go with Decanoate) - 100mg pin every monday, wednesday, and friday.

Aromasin - 10 mg every day.

PCT will remain the same except for switching the nolva to clomid. (could you explain why you like clomid better?)

Is there anything else I should add in due to the addition of deca?

Thanks again

MD

Stop the deca at week 10, two weeks prior to ending the Cyp. I would just pin the test and cyp together. You could add pramipexole at about .25mg ed for prolactin control from the deca. Hcg at 250-500iu twice a week wouldn't hurt either. As for the clomid Nolvadex debate, I am just not going to get into it right now. Just gonna have to trust me on that one.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Funny you should say that, I just added 150mg of Deca to my 600mg of cyp last week =)

You beginning to learn the way young grasshopper Soon one day you will make a fine master Young Heavy

Originally Posted by njc

Interesting. All I keep reading is "estrogen is necassary for muscle growth." Do you disagree with this completely or just partially?

No you need estrogen, but in the middle of the normal reference range is more than adequate! Unless you consider 15lbs of water retention gains, then yes it is necessary in high levels.

I'm running a second cycle now of Test Enanth at 500mg's..first was Sust 250 at 500 mg's but this time I'm using adex at .5 EOD and I defenitely feel better...just in general compared to my first cycle...gaining strength and I defenitely appear much leaner. I do think I have better gear on this run but I also think the AI has had a lot to do with it.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Motorcyle but it looked like your questions were already well answered.

Originally Posted by Dragon_MD

Stop the deca at week 10, two weeks prior to ending the Cyp. I would just pin the test and cyp together. You could add pramipexole at about .25mg ed for prolactin control from the deca. Hcg at 250-500iu twice a week wouldn't hurt either. As for the clomid Nolvadex debate, I am just not going to get into it right now. Just gonna have to trust me on that one.



You beginning to learn the way young grasshopper Soon one day you will make a fine master Young Heavy

Kinda off topic but...

Man, the whole Nolva vs Clomid debate seems a bit overplayed on some boards. I honestly think either is fine IF Aromasin is used alongside them. But with that said my best PCT ever was a Clomid/Aromasin combo after HCG. I actually never felt a crash in PCT using that...

Originally Posted by Dragon_MD

200mg of test prop is going to shut you down just as hard as with npp added. SHut down is shut down.

NPP would be the better bet, but HI posted a study once showing one dose of nandrolone completely shutting you down! I know shut down is shut down, but there's a difference between being hindered, and being shut down.... Correct?

Anyways with deca, can't you fail a drug test like 16 months after taking it? That's why I always said I would never mess with it when I was actually cycling, and for this reason I won't recommend it to people who plan on comming off and recovering. It's kind of hard to recover the HPTA when you still have anabolics floating around, lol.

We have any studies on NPP? I know the half life is much shorter than deca, but the half life is only half the story. The decanoate ester is about 2 weeks.... Yet you can fail a drug test over a year later (if that's correct, and I'm ALMOST positive it is....).

I thought there was a difference between how test effects HPTA, and how deca does as well. Never heard of test dick haha. I've heard of guys not being able to get it up for 6 weeks after a deca cycle, but they didn't tell me what their post look like, or if they used an AI, or even if they ran it with test.

Is there another injectable that I could use that would be less severe on HPTA, or does it really not matter? Also, since I'm using AI, pramipexole, and HCG, should natural hormones spring back pretty easily during PCT since I'm supporting them so well during cycle, or will I still struggle a bit?