Thread: Lengths Of Cycles

8 weeks on a blast with 6 weeks off is ideal. Run them back to back over and over. Keep the goal the same the whole year. Ie. cutting or bulking.

you talking cruise and blast Heavy? Or actually going into PCT during the 6 weeks?

I think heavy's on HRT. No matter how you cut it you can only be on half the year if a person goes with the reccomended time off protocol. So 7 week cycles 2 weeks to clear and 3wks PCT 7+5=12 12 on 12 off then it would come out to exactly 48 which is the weeks in a year so it would only be 2 7wk cycles per year. Doesnt sound like much does it guys. And honestly even with 3 weeks PCT thats cutting it short. On long cycles sometimes guys go with PCT up to 6 weeks. I may try a 7 wk'er here before long and see how I respond. Start off hard with a oral kicker, prop for a few weeks and more prop at the end. Test-E or cyp for the 7. I'm going to check out a few more ideas and Heavy if you care to elaborate on your 8 wk idea I'm all ears my friend. I'm just searching for what might be best for me in hopes of keeping as much as possible. However I have to say I'm in PCT at the moment and even though I have dropped some weight my strength hasnt changed and in fact todays leg routine I had more stamina than I have had in a long while. And got some compliments on how it appears I have dropped some water and looked good.

Originally Posted by TheCapt'n

you talking cruise and blast Heavy? Or actually going into PCT during the 6 weeks?

I was talking ideal cycle durations so no cruise. 8 weeks hitting it hard with 6 weeks off. Then jump back on hard for 8 weeks. You can do a quick and dirty PCT with this method. Nothing fancy is needed.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

I was talking ideal cycle durations so no cruise. 8 weeks hitting it hard with 6 weeks off. Then jump back on hard for 8 weeks. You can do a quick and dirty PCT with this method. Nothing fancy is needed.

So..

8 weeks on, 4 weeks PCT, 2 weeks off, and then start all over?

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

I think heavy's on HRT. No matter how you cut it you can only be on half the year if a person goes with the reccomended time off protocol. So 7 week cycles 2 weeks to clear and 3wks PCT 7+5=12 12 on 12 off then it would come out to exactly 48 which is the weeks in a year so it would only be 2 7wk cycles per year. Doesnt sound like much does it guys. And honestly even with 3 weeks PCT thats cutting it short. On long cycles sometimes guys go with PCT up to 6 weeks. I may try a 7 wk'er here before long and see how I respond. Start off hard with a oral kicker, prop for a few weeks and more prop at the end. Test-E or cyp for the 7. I'm going to check out a few more ideas and Heavy if you care to elaborate on your 8 wk idea I'm all ears my friend. I'm just searching for what might be best for me in hopes of keeping as much as possible. However I have to say I'm in PCT at the moment and even though I have dropped some weight my strength hasnt changed and in fact todays leg routine I had more stamina than I have had in a long while. And got some compliments on how it appears I have dropped some water and looked good.

I never count PCT as on time but many guys do. Let me show you a year bulking cycle phase. This is for guys who are seriously training and eating right that have run a few cycles. You can do your prop up front and at the end as it is a good idea but check this out.

week 1 400mg cyp
week 2 600mg cyp
week 3 800mg cyp
week 4 1 gram
week 5 1,200mg
week 6 1,400mg
week 7 1,600mg
week 8 1,600mg
week 9-14 off
week 15 400mg cyp, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 16 600mg cyp, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 17 800mg cyp, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 18 1 gram, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 19 1,200mg, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 20 1,400mg, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 21 1,600mg, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 22 1,600mg, 50mg Anadrol daily
week 23-28 off
week 29 400mg cyp
week 30 600mg cyp
week 31 800mg cyp
week 32 1 gram
week 33 1,200mg
week 34 1,400mg
week 35 1,600mg
week 36 1,600mg
week 37-42 off
week 43 400mg cyp, 50mg D-bol daily
week 44 600mg cyp, 50mg D-bol daily
week 45 800mg cyp, 50mg D-bol daily
week 46 1 gram, 50mg D-bol daily
week 47 1,200mg, 50mg D-bol daily
week 48 1,400mg, 50mg D-bol daily
week 49 1,600mg, 50mg D-bol daily
week 50 1,600mg, 50mg D-bol daily
week 51-56 off

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

So..

8 weeks on, 4 weeks PCT, 2 weeks off, and then start all over?

You could do a PCT but with the dosages and durations I am posting about you really won't need it. These are heavy fast back to back cycles.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

You could do a PCT but with the dosages and durations I am posting about you really won't need it. These are heavy fast back to back cycles.

Ahh, okay.

But yeah, that is a heavy cycle! As much as 1,600mg test/wk a few times!!

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

Ahh, okay.

But yeah, that is a heavy cycle! As much as 1,600mg test/wk a few times!!

Yes and with the oral you will push close to 2 grams for a few weeks but it is a short duration at these doses so organ stress is not for very long. This is an effective way to put some mass on over a year period.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

... This is an effective way to put some mass on over a year period.

I can only imagine. I am intrigued. Will keep this for the future.

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

I can only imagine. I am intrigued. Will keep this for the future.

This is close to how I ran my first year.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

This is close to how I ran my first year.

Dang. I bet the gains you made were through the roof!!

Heavy. That cycle looks incredible but with half lifes it doesnt look like you would ever really clear. With 1,600mgs at the end half that in two weeks and another half in another two it would seem you would just barely be down to base when you started over again. You obviously are much more experienced with those high doses. Tell me this though for the average user dont you think the best and safest way would be to run short cycles with the PCT protocol, time off and then repeat. I like running cycles but at 54 I just dont want to push myself up to those high doses so soon I wouldnt have a choice but to go on HRT. I've been doing a bit of math on the 7 week plan I had originally spoke of and with that 2 wks to clear, 3wks PCT a person could do exactly 2 7 wk cycles each year still done with time off and a decent PCT. From what I have read and been told after eight weeks the benifits start to drop because of the homiostatis(sp) anyway. Any thoughts on this Heavy?

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

Heavy. That cycle looks incredible but with half lifes it doesnt look like you would ever really clear. With 1,600mgs at the end half that in two weeks and another half in another two it would seem you would just barely be down to base when you started over again. You obviously are much more experienced with those high doses. Tell me this though for the average user dont you think the best and safest way would be to run short cycles with the PCT protocol, time off and then repeat. I like running cycles but at 54 I just dont want to push myself up to those high doses so soon I wouldnt have a choice but to go on HRT. I've been doing a bit of math on the 7 week plan I had originally spoke of and with that 2 wks to clear, 3wks PCT a person could do exactly 2 7 wk cycles each year still done with time off and a decent PCT. From what I have read and been told after eight weeks the benifits start to drop because of the homiostatis(sp) anyway. Any thoughts on this Heavy?

You are correct on much of what you have posted. The above cycle was for a youngish guy really training hard and eating right. When I design cycles for guys I take their personal goals and experience in mind. My rule of thumb is to increase dose 250mg from the previous cycle maximum if they want to feel out their response to T.

Myostatin seems to be peaked around day 56 of a cycle and years of experience as well as communication with hundreds of guys we know a cycle can be productive for 8 weeks. If you increase dose or add compounds we can "push" gains a few more weeks. If a guy was to only do 2 cycles in a year I would definately go at least 8 weeks. If you want to limit stress to organs because of your age then no need to "push" gains with more drugs.

However, at your age HRT is a no brainer unless you have a really good reason not to do it. You can safely run 300mg of Testosterone weekly for years if you are healthy. This dose will give you great results over the long run. Keep in mind Myostatin returns to baseline at week 20 of a cycle so this is a very good strategy for a guy your age.

Getting back to your original point of using Prop in the begining and end of a cycle. This is something guys will do to maximize gains. I think placing the prop up front is less productive because muscle just plain takes time to grow but placing it or an oral on the backend is an efficient way to keep gains rolling while the long esters are clearing. I personally see about a week earlier response using it up front which frankly isn't enough of an adbvantage for me personally.

What is your cycle history?

What are your goals?

What sides do you get?

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

From what I have read and been told after eight weeks the benifits start to drop because of the homiostatis(sp) anyway. Any thoughts on this Heavy?

Why do steroids quit working in 8-10 weeks?

You guys remember the study done in 2005 by Shalender Bhasina? The one where they gave men 75-600mg/wk of Test? "Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men" Well the author published a new study that was released a couple months ago.

Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2009 Apr 10;302(1):26-32. Epub 2009 Jan 21. Links

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.

Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.

PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]

Contrary to what they were expecting to see, it seems that by day 56 myostatin levels were much higher. So in week 8 it was causing LBM gains to stall, you know, like we know they do. But here's the good news. By the end of the study in week 20 they were back to baseline.

The moral of the story is to do 8 week cycles or increase dose before week 8 or stay on.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

The moral of the story is to do 8 week cycles or increase dose before week 8 or stay on.

what is the longest/highest you have done for a cycle?

Originally Posted by Prince

what is the longest/highest you have done for a cycle?

Highest was 2,650mg weekly for a few weeks. I was over 2 grams for a while. I have to say it was a bit much. I started having BP and gyno issues. I had to use Nolva AND an AI just to keep the puffiness under control. I started having insomnia and anxiety. I was on about 5 different esters of test and some tren. I dropped the tren and scaled back the cycle so I could sleep. The longest I have run is 6-8 months I think. I have done some long runs at various doses. Overall I don't like going that high anymore. I don't think I will ever go over 2 grams weekly ever again. I think for the average gym rat it does not make much sense to exceed 2 grams weekly.

What was your max dose/duration?

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Highest was 2,650mg weekly for a few weeks. I was over 2 grams for a while. I have to say it was a bit much. I started having BP and gyno issues. I had to use Nolva AND an AI just to keep the puffiness under control. I started having insomnia and anxiety. I was on about 5 different esters of test and some tren. I dropped the tren and scaled back the cycle so I could sleep. The longest I have run is 6-8 months I think. I have done some long runs at various doses. Overall I don't like going that high anymore. I don't think I will ever go over 2 grams weekly ever again. I think for the average gym rat it does not make much sense to exceed 2 grams weekly.

What was your max dose/duration?

Right now (1400mg/weekly), but I will taper off after this week, it's been 12 weeks, it did not start out this high, only the past 4 weeks:

• 800mg Sust per week
• 400mg Deca per week
• 200mg Cyp per week

I only pin twice weekly which is why I added in the Cyp with the Sust.

Originally Posted by Prince

Right now (1400mg/weekly), but I will taper off after this week, it's been 12 weeks, it did not start out this high, only the past 4 weeks:

• 800mg Sust per week
• 400mg Deca per week
• 200mg Cyp per week

I only pin twice weekly which is why I added in the Cyp with the Sust.

Looks good. How do you like all that Deca? Any problems?

To answer some of your questions. I dont have expectations of being huge or ever being on stage. I just like to be strong and built real well for my age. I enjoy the agression in the gym as we all do I'm sure. 25 years ago I used to cycle all the time and it was in this period that I was the strongest in all my life. I've had experience with a wide variety of compounds but back then the common cycle would be cyp, deca, d-bol. Did EQ, anavar, testoviron, sust, winstrol-V. To be honest back then we thought a good PCT would be to use some HCG big doses at the end for a week or so and then take some nolva for a few weeks. Had a big break through the years not with training just with steroid use and have been getting back into it these last few years. I have a small lump under my right breast which I have to keep a eye on which may or may not be from steroid use but I did notice on this last cycle it did flare some so I addressed that with a few differant protocols. I'm very intigued with your comment in that a person could do 300mgs per week indefinetly if healthy. The main reason I dont go on HRT is basically the money. I dont have it. I could self medicate as that would be much cheaper and with the knowledge I have now would be a lot safer than those younger years. Those are my goals, sides and history. Thanks Bro

i never come off totally. i trained naturally for 12 yrs except joe weiders bcaa, soy protein and multivitamin. then when i turned 25 i started my 1st cycle of omnadren 500mg wk and 20mg d-bol ed for 8 weeks, 12 wks for the omna. but after a 5 week break i went back on for good that was 19 yrs ago. i go heavy for about 12 weeks then i do bridge with 20mg d-bol or anavar or winstrol oral plus 100mg 2xs a wk or test cyp 200mg a wk. 30mg var or 40mg winstrol oral. but my whole cycle not bridge but cycle i use hcg 500ius 2xs a wk or 1,000 2xsa wk depending. i have my cbc and lipids tsh done every 3 months and iam within normal ranges. i do take cholestrol medicine , vytorin, lovaza, non flush niacin otc and a baby aspirin 81mg ed on my own not dr recommended. but other then that iam fine. is anybody else do this type of cycling? just curious. imho. peace to all ..............

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

To answer some of your questions. I dont have expectations of being huge or ever being on stage. I just like to be strong and built real well for my age. I enjoy the agression in the gym as we all do I'm sure. 25 years ago I used to cycle all the time and it was in this period that I was the strongest in all my life. I've had experience with a wide variety of compounds but back then the common cycle would be cyp, deca, d-bol. Did EQ, anavar, testoviron, sust, winstrol-V. To be honest back then we thought a good PCT would be to use some HCG big doses at the end for a week or so and then take some nolva for a few weeks. Had a big break through the years not with training just with steroid use and have been getting back into it these last few years. I have a small lump under my right breast which I have to keep a eye on which may or may not be from steroid use but I did notice on this last cycle it did flare some so I addressed that with a few differant protocols. I'm very intigued with your comment in that a person could do 300mgs per week indefinetly if healthy. The main reason I dont go on HRT is basically the money. I dont have it. I could self medicate as that would be much cheaper and with the knowledge I have now would be a lot safer than those younger years. Those are my goals, sides and history. Thanks Bro

Read this carefully and pay attention to the 300mg T group.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Looks good. How do you like all that Deca? Any problems?

I love it, no issues at all, I was having bad joint pain until I added the Deca.

Originally Posted by Prince

I love it, no issues at all, I was having bad joint pain until I added the Deca.

Deca is wonderful for joint pain. Just 200mg weekly treats my joints right.

That was a interesting read and I did my best to pay close attention to the 300mg group.

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

That was a interesting read and I did my best to pay close attention to the 300mg group.

Did you see the side effect......acne =)

Nothing else after 5 months...