Thread: End of cycle and PCT question

Originally Posted by guybb3

I ran a wimp 1st cycle of 250 test cyp EW. My problem is I used up the vial a week short of my planned finish (9weeks instaed of 10). I have another vial, should I just get one dose from that and leave til next time? My worry is that I have a martial arts competition 12 days from now and don't want to feel tired or sluggish (I would pin next monday if I used another dose). Also, when should I start PCT? I have all the hcg, clomid, and nolvadex I need. Thanks for any advice, guys.

HCG - 14 days after last Cyp shot
Aromasin or Adex - start same time as HCG and run for 4 weeks
Aromasin - w1-3@20-25mg, w4@10-12mg ED / Adex - w1-4@.5mg ED
Nolva if needed.

Originally Posted by aja44

HCG - 14 days after last Cyp shot
Aromasin or Adex - start same time as HCG and run for 4 weeks
Aromasin - w1-3@20-25mg, w4@10-12mg ED / Adex - w1-4@.5mg ED
Nolva if needed.

Can you explain further? what's the reason for this? Can you back this up?
No necessary nolva/clomid?

Use the HCG while the aas ester is clearing so the day after your last aas inject.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Use the HCG while the aas ester is clearing so the day after your last aas inject.

that was my thinking

HCG CYCLES

As regards HCG´s use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don´t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don´t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn´t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, that´s right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.

As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Can you explain further? what's the reason for this? Can you back this up?
No necessary nolva/clomid?

I forgot to add Clomid running 4 weeks at 100/100/100/50

I got this PCT outline right out of the sticky's based on running a Cyp cycle. I also have PM's with Heavy were I layed out my cycle and he approved and made recommendations which I believe I listed here except that I forgot to include the Clomid.

I wouldve suggested going on T3 and clen together. Problem is you just ended a cycle.

In this case, stick with a classic ECA stack. Clen does work, just watch the sides. They can be a bitch. You can prolong the usage with either 50mg benadryl or using ketofen. I'd suggest using benadryl every 3 weeks on keep it going until your contest, which is when?

Originally Posted by juggernaut

HCG CYCLES

As regards HCG´s use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don´t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don´t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn´t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, that´s right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.

As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan.

Jugg- not doubting you in any way. But as a newbie, I am confused by what the sticky and other posts say and the response here. The "first cycle" sticky says to run HCG at 500iu twice per week for the full cycle (10 weeks) and then run it at 1000iu's EOD during PCT for 16 days. It also states the following: "Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno". Nolva is not listed as required part of your PCT other then in the case of experiencing gyno. How can you run HCG on cycle for 10 weeks and then run it for 16 days post cycle when your post states to run it 2-3 weeks straight with at least a month off?

Again, I am asking for information and learning and in no way criticizing or calling you out. I'm simply asking for clarification because going into a cycle without the right PCT is asking for trouble.

Thanks,

Thanks for the responses so far guys. So none of you think I should bother breaking into another test c vial just for one or two more doses? I and my girlfriend have not noticed nut atrophy but hcg should still be used, correct? Also when I use the hcg, the unused goes in the fridge until the next day?

Originally Posted by aja44

Jugg- not doubting you in any way. But as a newbie, I am confused by what the sticky and other posts say and the response here. The "first cycle" sticky says to run HCG at 500iu twice per week for the full cycle (10 weeks) and then run it at 1000iu's EOD during PCT for 16 days. It also states the following: "Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno". Nolva is not listed as required part of your PCT other then in the case of experiencing gyno. How can you run HCG on cycle for 10 weeks and then run it for 16 days post cycle when your post states to run it 2-3 weeks straight with at least a month off?

Again, I am asking for information and learning and in no way criticizing or calling you out. I'm simply asking for clarification because going into a cycle without the right PCT is asking for trouble.

Thanks,

There's 2 ways you can run HCG; throughout the entire cycle, which I would've recommended you do, but since you havent, I offered another way of usage. Also, I believe Heavy found an article on using clomid and nolva together since they do different things.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

There's 2 ways you can run HCG; throughout the entire cycle, which I would've recommended you do, but since you havent, I offered another way of usage. Also, I believe Heavy found an article on using clomid and nolva together since they do different things.

Ok, but my concern is the 2-3 weeks max with at least a month off in between. How can that statement be accurate if running it on cycle is for 10 weeks straight and then starting it as part of your PCT the day after your last CYP shot. Its pretty much a bit over 12 weeks straight at 1000iu's per week.

Originally Posted by aja44

I forgot to add Clomid running 4 weeks at 100/100/100/50

I got this PCT outline right out of the sticky's based on running a Cyp cycle. I also have PM's with Heavy were I layed out my cycle and he approved and made recommendations which I believe I listed here except that I forgot to include the Clomid.

Use the HCG while the ester is clearing NOT after.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Use the HCG while the ester is clearing NOT after.

Ok, so you run it all through cycle. Then the day after your last Cyp shot you begin your PCT run of HCG EOD for 16 days because the Cyp ester is just about clear after day 16?

So with regards the the earlier post by Jugg, the 2-3 weeks on and then month off is specific only to post cycle. You can run HCG through an entire cycle because the Cyp Ester is at a constant level in your system so no harm from it. Do I have this right Heavy?

Originally Posted by aja44

Ok, so you run it all through cycle. Then the day after your last Cyp shot you begin your PCT run of HCG EOD for 16 days because the Cyp ester is just about clear after day 16?

So with regards the the earlier post by Jugg, the 2-3 weeks on and then month off is specific only to post cycle. You can run HCG through an entire cycle because the Cyp Ester is at a constant level in your system so no harm from it. Do I have this right Heavy?

HCG may be run on cycle and/or for recovery at the end of the cycle as the ester is clearing.

Originally Posted by aja44

Ok, so you run it all through cycle. Then the day after your last Cyp shot you begin your PCT run of HCG EOD for 16 days because the Cyp ester is just about clear after day 16?

So with regards the the earlier post by Jugg, the 2-3 weeks on and then month off is specific only to post cycle. You can run HCG through an entire cycle because the Cyp Ester is at a constant level in your system so no harm from it. Do I have this right Heavy?

Not trying to bust your balls, but you need to read a lot in order for this to really hit home. I did for 6 months, and I am thankful I didnt run into it. There's a lot to learn, and you're doing the right thing by asking questions. Keep reading too. When you think you know all of it, read and research more.

Heavy is right here-no HCG after the ester clears. Used to run HCG during PCT many moons ago before I knew better. I'm with Juggs, too-best to run throughout the cycle. Works much more effectively.

Originally Posted by MDR

Heavy is right here-no HCG after the ester clears. Used to run HCG during PCT many moons ago before I knew better. I'm with Juggs, too-best to run throughout the cycle. Works much more effectively.

Juggs/MDR - Thank you very much for responding. Like I had stated earlier, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm simply trying to clearly understand. I will continue to do my reading, but I will continue to ask the same question until it gets answered in a way that I get.

Juggs response in an earlier post stated "run HCG for 2-3 weeks and then take a month off". Well how do you run it for 10-12 weeks straight while on cycle then? So I will ask the question I asked yesterday again.....you can run HCG for as many weeks straight as you want while on cycle, or during the few days/weeks while the Ester clears without harm????

Example:
running 15 week Prop/EQ cycle. 12 weeks on EQ and 10 weeks on Prop. Will shoot 200mgEQ twice per week and then 125mg Prop EOD. I run EQ solo for 5 weeks and then run EQ/Prop for the next 7 weeks. I run just Prop for the last 3 weeks. The EQ takes between 14-16 days to clear while the Prop is about 3 days. I will be running HCG @ 250iu's twice per week during the entire 15 weeks. With that said, what should my PCT be and when should I start it?

I have been given the following different scenarios for PCT:

Schedule your EQ to stop about 21 days before you last shot of Prop and then start PCT the day after last Prop shot. HCG @1000iu's EOD for 16 days, Aromasin for 4 weeks at 25/25/25/12.5, Clomid for 4 weeks at 100/100/100/50


Drop the HCG all together from PCT, not needed. Clomid is to high a dose.

Someone else suggested dropping Aromasin and going to Adex

And someone else said it was good as is.

This is why I am confused.

Uhhh dude, do some fucking homework. Ask questions, yes-but dont think you cant find these answers on your own. Enough already.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Uhhh dude, do some fucking homework. Ask questions, yes-but dont think you cant find these answers on your own. Enough already.

Ahhh dude, I did some fucking homework. You wrote a statement that contradicted Heavy's sticky and I asked for clarification. I guess the PM's I got about you were right....You can be an asshole at times. Fuck it, drop the topic....

Originally Posted by aja44

Ahhh dude, I did some fucking homework. You wrote a statement that contradicted Heavy's sticky and I asked for clarification. I guess the PM's I got about you were right....You can be an asshole at times. Fuck it, drop the topic....

I am a complete asshole. Thank you. You're still a retard overkilling a simple question. Stop being lazy and find the answer.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I am a complete asshole.

I agree, you definitely are a complete ASSHOLE.

The problem here is simple. This forum is designed to support the sport and help newbies and experience guys with cycle and PCT questions. The first thing your told when you come here is the read the stickys before asking questions. I did not come at you with "Put a cycle together for me" or "Tell me what PCT to use". Or even better, "What is a PCT". I posted the STICKY PCT for a Cyp cycle and you questioned it and wrote this diatribe about HCG. I came to you for clarification and you give me attitude.

Were not simply talking about taking the wrong amount of Vit C or Creatine here. The wrong combination, or not taking the right components post cycle can lead to major issues or death. If your going to be a grumpy asshole with a shitty attitude and no patience when you reply.....DONT. There are plenty of other great guys who had no problem helping the retard out.

Originally Posted by aja44

There are plenty of other great guys who had no problem helping the retard out.

Hey, do you mean me? lol

Originally Posted by guybb3

Hey, do you mean me? lol

Hey dude, sorry to hijack your post like that. But I'm a newbie also and wanted to make sure things were clear for any other newbie that is working his ass off reading and learning.

Bottom line that I got from others... Running HCG during cycle is best and then there is no need to run it again during PCT. If you did not run it during cycle, then you should run it beginning the day after you last shot and end based on when the ester you took is cleared from your system. Review the sticky's to get that info on the half life's.

Good luck

Originally Posted by guybb3

I ran a wimp 1st cycle of 250 test cyp EW. My problem is I used up the vial a week short of my planned finish (9weeks instaed of 10). I have another vial, should I just get one dose from that and leave til next time? My worry is that I have a martial arts competition 12 days from now and don't want to feel tired or sluggish (I would pin next monday if I used another dose). Also, when should I start PCT? I have all the hcg, clomid, and nolvadex I need. Thanks for any advice, guys.

not to go off topic how did the 250 cyp a week do for you

aja that sounds about right,, remember to add your clomid

everyone is a bit different, i am sensitive to meds so clomid for me would be 100/100/50 and i am done

You may run HCG on cycle and/or for recovery. Here is a sample of how to use HCG

week 1-10 600mg test cyp per week
week 1-10 500iu HCG twice weekly
week 11-12 1,000iu HCG eod

Cyp has about a 10-14 day active life so you use the HCG in weeks 11-12 while the cyp ester is clearing.

week 13-16 Clomid 100,100,100,50
week 1-17 Aromasin 25 mg eod

If you don't want to run HCG on cycle then just run the HCG at 2,500iu eod weeks 11-12.

Originally Posted by guybb3

Hey, do you mean me? lol

well obviously he didnt mean me. I'm not a great guy.

Originally Posted by Klutch

not to go off topic how did the 250 cyp a week do for you

Definitely stronger, with more energy but I'm 50. I must say, around week 3, I remember how hard it was to be 19 with a perpetual hard-on. I am driving my girlfriend crazy.