Thread: Long Cycles 15+ Weeks

I take everything Bill says with a grain of salt...if that.


/V

I believe steroids do have a diminishing effect after eight weeks. Thats why a lot of guys switch compounds or increase dosages to attempt to stretch the cycle a bit. But with some things like deca and EQ they just start kicking in good a bit before that so theres a dilima on that theory. I have been doing cycles of 12 weeks with good success but one has to keep in mind what compounds and the risk versus benifit ratio. One of the reasons I do the 12 weeks I guess is like all of us I like being jacked and once it starts feeling good we hate to stop.

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

I take everything Bill says with a grain of salt...if that.


/V

+1

You might consider upping the hcg to 500iu twice weekly.
I have never run EQ but all the guys I know won't run it less than 600 ew. Just a thought to explore.

Quark, thank you for the input. Are there any dangers in taking that level of HCG for 16 weeks? If not, I will boost it to 500 twice a week. Regarding the EQ, it has been working well so far. I know the dose is on the low side, but this is the first time that I have ran it. Next time, I will run it at a higher dose.

If gains are still coming after 12 weeks, are there any issues with running the cycle for 16 weeks in terms of being shut down (i.e will it take longer to bounce back assuming that I am taking HCG throughout)?

Roaddkking, if I do go for 16 weeks and things seem to hit an equilibrium, I have some var that I can add in as well (or end the cycle). I'm not sure if that is the best use of it (3000mgs, so I can run it at 60mg ED for 7 weeks) or if I should save it for a prop/var cycle at a later date.

Thank you all for your input, its much appreciated.

for cutting 8weeks is ok.
mass 12 weeks

thats why i dont stop, i just bridge after 6 months or less on a cycle.

12 seems about right for me. I agree that you need to ramp up a bit the last few weeks.

One way you could use the var is toward the end. Say the last month and since it's a oral and clears quickly you could do it right up until the day before PCT starts. That way during the two weeks(approx) you are waiting for the esters to clear you are still gaining strength. A lot of guys use a oral or prop to fill in that gap before PCT begins. Just a idea for you to consider. Remember also the EQ takes longer to clear than the test.

Thanks everyone, I think I will bump the Sustanon up to 700 and end it at 12 weeks. Ill save the var for a rainy day cutter down the road a bit.

Originally Posted by brickshthouse79

Hi Everyone,

I just read the William Llewellyn (in another place his name is spelled Llewelyn, but you know who I am referring to) 25 Minutes of Steriod Truth sticky. Anyway, he suggests that cycles should be restricted to 8 weeks. Most seem to run 8-12 weeks. Would someone with experience please tell me about PCT and being shut down after 15 weeks versus 12. I'd really like input from someone that did not go from cycle to a a HRT dose of test. For those folks, was there much of a difference and should the PCT protocol be adjusted for longer cycles?

About me:
30 year old male, training since I was 15 and quite seriously since I was 17. I am currently at 216 lbs, 5’ 11” and probably around 15% body fat. I train very intensely twice a day (cardio and weights separate) and my diet is spot on.

Purpose of cycle:
To gain lean body mass. Perhaps add 10lbs and drop a significant amount of fat. Protein is high, fat is moderate and carbs are low – overall diet is spot on and sodium intake is low.


Cycle History (no need to poke fun, some classic newbie mistakes)

• At 17 ran what I think was methyltest and greatly improved my physique
• At 18 ran 5 weeks of sten (pathetic), but increased strength further and ended at a flat bench 1 rep max of 365 lbs.
• At 25, ran first real cycle which was still paltry. Consisted of sustanon at 500mg/week for 8 weeks, winny tabs at 50mg a day for 4 weeks and some deca for joint lube. Gained 20+ lbs of lean muscle and was in the best shape of my life. Added a few inches on my arms and strength went through the roof.

Now, I am planning on running 16 weeks of sustanon/eq at 525/400, respectively (starting week 6 tomorrow). In the first 5 weeks, the results have been excellent and after reading his article, I am wondering if I should stop it at 8 take off some time and then hit the other 8 in the winter (4-5 months off).

Regardless of how long I run the cycle, the PCT will include nolva(40/20/20/20)/clomid (50/50/50/50) and I have been taking HCG twice weekly at 250 IUs. May also add HCgenerate, alpha sustain and clen.


Thank you in advance for your input.

The reason most cycles are suggested to stop at 8 weeks is due to myostatin levels falling. IF YOU'RE GOING TO RUN ANY LONGER THAN THAT AND CONTINUE TO GAIN YOU NEED TO ADD AN ORAL AND/OR BE USING GH.

A couple of things about your cycle:
-EQ needs to be used for a minimum of 16 weeks at a higher dose for the desired results.
-Your starting body fat is a little bit high for the rusults you're looking for.
-Unless you're a genetic freak you can't bulk and cut at the same time, pick one. Your diet will dictate if you gain mass or lose body fat.
-Up you're training sessions to four a week, what type of split are you running right now?
-Nolva or clomid - pick one, no need for both. Use aromasin for your A/I.

You'll be happy you've been using the HCG while running the cycle, you'll recover faster.

No need for those other supps you mentioned as clomid, hcg and aromasin are really all you need. The case of "more is better" doesn't apply here.

Why clen? Are you bulking or cutting?

Originally Posted by ChocolateThunder

-EQ needs to be used for a minimum of 16 weeks at a higher dose for the desired results.

EQ is a strange beast.

The reason most cycles are suggested to stop at 8 weeks is due to myostatin levels falling. IF YOU'RE GOING TO RUN ANY LONGER THAN THAT AND CONTINUE TO GAIN YOU NEED TO ADD AN ORAL AND/OR BE USING GH.

A couple of things about your cycle:
-EQ needs to be used for a minimum of 16 weeks at a higher dose for the desired results.
-Your starting body fat is a little bit high for the rusults you're looking for.
-Unless you're a genetic freak you can't bulk and cut at the same time, pick one. Your diet will dictate if you gain mass or lose body fat.
-Up you're training sessions to four a week, what type of split are you running right now?
-Nolva or clomid - pick one, no need for both. Use aromasin for your A/I.

You'll be happy you've been using the HCG while running the cycle, you'll recover faster.

No need for those other supps you mentioned as clomid, hcg and aromasin are really all you need. The case of "more is better" doesn't apply here.

Why clen? Are you bulking or cutting?



Thank you for your thoughs ChocolateThunder. Here are a few questions/answers:

I will do some research on myostatin levels. Can you tell me in a sentence or two why orals are able to prevent myostatin levels from falling (or make them increase)? Would significantly upping my dose of sustanon help combat falling myostatin levels? Judging by what you wrote, I’m assuming that doing so will not.

The purpose of the cycle is more of a cutter; hoping to add maybe 10 lbs of muscle and drop fat – net result maybe drop a pound or two, but greatly improve my body composition. I just started week 6 and so far, so good. Strength is up in all lifts and abs are showing (still a lot of work to do)

Yes, I know EQ has to be run for a long time. I had intended on running it 12 weeks and know that is at the short end of the spectrum. If I ran the sustanon for 16 weeks, I’d run the EQ for 15 and start PCT 2+ weeks after the sustanon (so ~3 weeks from the last EQ shot).

Right now, I am training is 6-7 days a week. My split is: Chest, Back, Bis/Tris, Legs, Shoulders – not necessarily in that order, try to change it every week. I only take a day off when I feel very beat and have been managing about 6 days on per week. Each training session includes 4 or more exercises, including one compound movement. In addition to weight training, I am doing a 45 minute cardio sessions 5-7 days a week at moderate-high intensity. My diet is clean and low in sugar, with the exception of a moderate level of post workout carbs.

Regarding HCG, do you think it should be run at 250 or 500 iu’s twice a week? There seem to be differing views on the dosage.

I am using Adex on cycle as an AI and plan to switch to SERMS during PCT (clomid/nolva). Why do you prefer aromosin? It seems that some love aromasin, I’ve never used it. I already have clomid/nolva and want to do whatever I can to minimize being shut down, so I plan on running both.

If I decide to run clen, it would be to burn off a bit of extra fat is left at the end of the cycle. It may make the first few weeks of PCT “easier” (ran with Keto) and help my body bounce back. That is still up in the air, what do you think?

Originally Posted by brickshthouse79

Thank you for your thoughs ChocolateThunder. Here are a few questions/answers:

I will do some research on myostatin levels. Can you tell me in a sentence or two why orals are able to prevent myostatin levels from falling (or make them increase)? Would significantly upping my dose of sustanon help combat falling myostatin levels? Judging by what you wrote, I’m assuming that doing so will not.

Orals are instantly bio-available, a kick start so to speak. Increasing your test levels will do nothing but cause sides.

The purpose of the cycle is more of a cutter; hoping to add maybe 10 lbs of muscle and drop fat – net result maybe drop a pound or two, but greatly improve my body composition. I just started week 6 and so far, so good. Strength is up in all lifts and abs are showing (still a lot of work to do)

The idea of a cutter is to stop all gains, and drop as much body fat as possible, this can't be done without a caloric deficit and you won't lose weight if you're not in one. Unless you're a genetic freak or running GH YOU CAN'T DROP BODY FAT AND ADD MUSCLE AT THE SAME TIME, it just doesn't work that way. GH is what will change your composition more than anything, but that needs to be used for a minimum of 20-30 weeks.

Yes, I know EQ has to be run for a long time. I had intended on running it 12 weeks and know that is at the short end of the spectrum. If I ran the sustanon for 16 weeks, I’d run the EQ for 15 and start PCT 2+ weeks after the sustanon (so ~3 weeks from the last EQ shot).

Correct.

Right now, I am training is 6-7 days a week. My split is: Chest, Back, Bis/Tris, Legs, Shoulders – not necessarily in that order, try to change it every week. I only take a day off when I feel very beat and have been managing about 6 days on per week. Each training session includes 4 or more exercises, including one compound movement. In addition to weight training, I am doing a 45 minute cardio sessions 5-7 days a week at moderate-high intensity. My diet is clean and low in sugar, with the exception of a moderate level of post workout carbs.

Here is your problem. You're over training. No more than 4 days a week and no more than 2 days in a row. More is not better and your body needs to recover, you're beating yourself to death.

You don't even need cardio, if your diet is spot on as well as your training. That's A LOT of cardio.

The post work out sugar is killing you. Diet is about insulin management, get this squared away and you'll drop weight like never before. Eat old fashioned oats with fruit PWO. No other carbs but veggies the rest of the day.

Regarding HCG, do you think it should be run at 250 or 500 iu’s twice a week? There seem to be differing views on the dosage.

250ius twice a week or 500ius a week, pick one. It doesn't really matter that much.

I am using Adex on cycle as an AI and plan to switch to SERMS during PCT (clomid/nolva). Why do you prefer aromosin? It seems that some love aromasin, I’ve never used it. I already have clomid/nolva and want to do whatever I can to minimize being shut down, so I plan on running both.

Aromasin is a suicidal A/I, adex is not. There is a chance for e2 rebound with adex, why risk it? You don't need both, you need an A/I and a SERM not two SERMS. Use the adex and clomid if you don't want to get the aromasin.

If I decide to run clen, it would be to burn off a bit of extra fat is left at the end of the cycle. It may make the first few weeks of PCT “easier” (ran with Keto) and help my body bounce back. That is still up in the air, what do you think?

What is your reasoning for clen making PCT easier? That is counterproductive.

I would never run clen again, it is terrible for your heart. I didn't like the tiredness from it nor did I like the jitters nor did I like the insomnia. If you want to use it go for it.