Thread: First Cycle Help

You are a bit too young my friend. I would wait a few more years. Also, if you are not ready to inject....you are not ready to use AAS. You must include injectable test in your programs to see concrete results. Sure, there are many other methods...but they don't all work. Most gains are usually lost after a dbol only cycle for example.

Oral anabolics are far more dangerous than injectables. Orals can take a huge toll on the liver that may or may not cause scarring. Most of us take an oral up front such as dbol, but we also take sups that help protect our liver. And lastly, when/if the time comes....stay away from nolva as it has no business in today's current BB world (aside from extreme gyno breakouts). There are FAR better options. At 175, what is your height/bf%?

Also, lay out your daily caloric and protein intake so we can see if your diet is really "on par".


/V

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

You are a bit too young my friend. I would wait a few more years. Also, if you are not ready to inject....you are not ready to use AAS. You must include injectable test in your programs to see concrete results. Sure, there are many other methods...but they don't all work. Most gains are usually lost after a dbol only cycle for example.

Oral anabolics are far more dangerous than injectables. Orals can take a huge toll on the liver that may or may not cause scarring. Most of us take an oral up front such as dbol, but we also take sups that help protect our liver. And lastly, when/if the time comes....stay away from nolva as it has no business in today's current BB world (aside from extreme gyno breakouts). There are FAR better options. At 175, what is your height/bf%?

Also, lay out your daily caloric and protein intake so we can see if your diet is really "on par".


/V

I forgot to mention if i do go ahead with one of the of them, i would take milk thistle.

Could you give me the names of the FAR better options of PCT?

I'm 5'9'' with a bf% of 8.9%.

Here is a basic layout of my diet, but you basically get the idea. I track my calories @ fitday

General idea of diet...

Breakfast;
Eggs
Oatmeal
Fruit

Snack;
PB and Jelly sandwich
Tub of Natural Greek Yoghurt

Lunch;
Tuna and Pasta Salad with Avocado/Spinach/Brocolli (varies from day to day)

Snack (Pre-workout);
Oatmeal
Whey Protein
Peanut Butter

Post-Workout;
1-2 Banana's
Whey Protein

Dinner;
Fish/ Chicken/ Turkey/ Beef
Sweet Potato
Vegetables

Before Bed;
Cottage Cheese/ Casein Protein
Peanut Butter
Oatmeal

Serving size are not included as they vary from day to day.

Oh, also, i dont wanna be a beast...i want to gain mass, and retain a portion of it.

You'll loose a lot of your gains if you go just with orals!

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

You are a bit too young my friend. I would wait a few more years. Also, if you are not ready to inject....you are not ready to use AAS. You must include injectable test in your programs to see concrete results. Sure, there are many other methods...but they don't all work. Most gains are usually lost after a dbol only cycle for example.

Oral anabolics are far more dangerous than injectables. Orals can take a huge toll on the liver that may or may not cause scarring. Most of us take an oral up front such as dbol, but we also take sups that help protect our liver. And lastly, when/if the time comes....stay away from nolva as it has no business in today's current BB world (aside from extreme gyno breakouts). There are FAR better options. At 175, what is your height/bf%?

Also, lay out your daily caloric and protein intake so we can see if your diet is really "on par".


/V

What he said and orals are made to enhance a cycle not build one off of.

Originally Posted by ChocolateThunder

What he said and orals are made to enhance a cycle not build one off of.

So please be kind enough to elaborate. What would you recommend for a short cycle including lets say tbol. Test? for how long, an with what dosage?

I can't say, I've never used tbol.

Read the stickies,test is staple of any cycle,since you hate needles go with longer esthers you'll just have to pin twice per week...Test enanthate at 500mg ew...if you want to add some mass anadrol and dbol are excellent choice,anadrol will make you wonder if your scale is broken ,first one at 50mg ed and the second at 30mg,both for 6 weeks with a liver support!

Originally Posted by laflsyl10

I forgot to mention if i do go ahead with one of the of them, i would take milk thistle.

Could you give me the names of the FAR better options of PCT?

Knowing your caloric and protein intake would help. Good to see that you are in the single digit BF%. As for PCT, all one really needs is clomid. And during a cycle, one should run an AI (adex, aromasin, etc.) along side of your program, as well as some HCG.

As for suggesting a program, if you insist on running it now and not waiting a little longer, I would run something basic like this...

500mg test enan EW 1-12 (2 shots a week, 250mg ea.)
adex (arimidex) .5mg EOD 1-16 (or aromasin)
HCG 2-12 1000iu ew (split in two), some do well on 500iu EW. Not me.

PCT (4 weeks long, start 3 weeks after last shot): Clomid and continue AI
Day 1&2, 200mg
(week 1-4) 100/100/75/50

Please note that there are many methods to running PCT with clomid. Some will run it 50mg ED for 3-4 weeks, I found tapering off works better. If you run a search, you will find dozens of different dosing protocols when it comes to clomid and PCT. Toss the nolva in the back of your closet, you won't need it. Good luck.



/V

I agree with Vic

But not everyone is going to do injecting we can disagree with it all we like but it wont change a thing, if they dont want to do it they wont, so all of us should at least try to lead them in the right direction as far as whats decent and all.

I read a post on another board and it was about oral only first cycles or oral only cycles something along those lines.
I belive it was heavy that posted up one like so 50mg dbol a day for 6 weeks or maybe it was 8.

Being his first cycle he may very well keep a good portion of his gains if he does pct right and keeps training hard and eating right.

SD would be an option but gains would be dry and its not something you want to use for a first cycle.

If he does not keep any of the gains we will all be here and I am sure alot of you will say...TOLD YOU SO

But hey who knows he might do well from it, and it might be all he does as far as any more cycles go.

To the OP these guys do know whats best so listen to them, but in the end if your not going to listen and go with a oral only cycle then I hope you at least listen to their advice on the orals.

all the best

If your thinking about a first cycle I would say keep it simple test only, pct clomid and nolva, and if you want liver support look into UDCA, also helps with cholesterol.

I was afraid of needles too, but once you get that test flowing through your system and you feel yourself getting stronger, it's much easier to inject. The other key to injections is using the right size needle. If you are absolutely sure you can't inject, then D-bol is a good choice. I would start at 30mg or 50mg per day. Get 10mg tabs and take 3 per day. You will feel it work immediately. The bad part about orals is the fact that they are very toxic to your liver. So be careful... In my opinion, a good first cycle would be Deca/Enanthate. I would inject 1ml of each (put in the same syringe) into your ass. Alternate sides. Your first injection will be painful. You may even want to jumpstart your cycle with D-bol for the first 2 weeks until the Enanthate starts working. Run that for 10 weeks with arimidex at .5mg EOD to combat gyno and end with HCG and Nolva or Clomid for a few weeks. That would give you great results, and you only have to inject once a week. Anyway... Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

By the way... if you only plan on orals. Stay away from Anadrol. It works, and you will see big resulats, but that shit is probably the most toxic to your liver. A guy once told me, "You know it's working when you piss blood." That's not something I would recommend.

you know its working when you piss blood. lol. That is one hardcore iron swinger

Nolva is NOT needed nor suggested for a test only run guys. And as most of us know, HCG is far more effective when it's run ALONG SIDE a program, not during PCT. Why not prevent the atrophy before it begins? If you like balls the size of raisins, run HCG at the end. Most of us like to be able to see our balls....I know my wife does. OP, look into milk thistle and Liv52 for liver support as well.


/V

So Vic are you saying that HCG should be takin In the beginning or in the middle of a test only cycle. and not at the end? so would you say clomid should be the pct? thanks for the 411