Thread: My 2nd Cycle (Small one)

Originally Posted by sully169

Looking for advice

stats:
6 ft 215lbs and 25% bf
decent diet normally (summertime is killing it tho bbq's and drinking)
weight training 4-5x weekly
cardio 5-6X/weekly

Gear:
currently : 3 iu ed of neutopin hgh (in week 7)
will start next few days : andro gel 1% 5 g daily (2 weeks)
after 2 weeks test cyp @ 1 cc once a week

all gear as prescribed by american doctor

have another visit to the doc in 5 weeks and was thinking of adding tren, anavar or dnp??? what would you guys do in my situation....

my goals: lose the body fat and lean out ... not looking to get bloated but i do want to put on a few pounds of muscle while losing the fat


if you have any other questions about me you can look at my journal ...

and pls leave out the obvious of my diet ... i know thats most important and i am working on it but i would like other advice besides that

You're asking us what we would do and then say leave my diet out of this how can you get a straight and honest answer? DIET COMES BEFORE EVERYTHING. There is no other advice besides cleaning up your diet. No matter how bad you want to hear something else it just doesn't work without the diet being first. You can take all the gear in the world along with 6 hours of cardio a day and it all means shit unless your diet is in order.

You're not going to achieve your goals with anavar, DNP or anything else unless you get your diet down.

AAS is a tool that helps you, it doesn't mean you can eat whatever you want. Drinking is also KILLING your progress.

I'm just being a realist here, you asked the question and I'm giving you the answer. If you go and run a bunch of gear, DNP and whatever else you're going to be disappointed.

i think your thinking im doing it alot ... im talking like 1 or 2 days a week eating bad and drinking once a week ..... i mean im not a professional body builder ... but my diet is pretty good .. i kno its not completely clean but mostly whole wheat veggies and lean meats avoiding beef salads low fat dressings egg whites ... whole grain ceral, pastas 2% milk and protein shakes .... with supplements .... its not like im eatting mcdonalds every day and pizza for breakfast lunch and dinner

If you were eating all those "correct" foods, training 4-5 times a week and doing cardio 5-6 times a week you would not be 25%BF. And if you are, your training routine needs some work or you need to put in more effort in the gym.

I'm a bit surprised your doctor is willing to put you on the gears you listed without getting your BF at or below 13%.

you're too fat for Gears, You'll just get fatter. If you're 25%BF then your diet is fucked. Fix that, get yourself below 13-14%, then review.

Originally Posted by sully169

i think your thinking im doing it alot ... im talking like 1 or 2 days a week eating bad and drinking once a week ..... i mean im not a professional body builder ... but my diet is pretty good .. i kno its not completely clean but mostly whole wheat veggies and lean meats avoiding beef salads low fat dressings egg whites ... whole grain ceral, pastas 2% milk and protein shakes .... with supplements .... its not like im eatting mcdonalds every day and pizza for breakfast lunch and dinner

No I don't think that. Post up your EXACT diet, training program and cardio, THEN better answers can be given.

Average diet:
pre workout a protein shake about 35g of protein

post work out whole grain cereal with 1% milk

lunch tuna or turkey on whole wheat bread low fat mayo

snack yogart, mixed fruit or another protein shake

dinner :a lean meat (ground turkey/chicken, chicken breast with steamed veggies and some type of complex carbs (brown rice, whole wheat pasta etc)

and if i am still hungry i will have another protein shake (rarely)

4 X per week i do splits
day 1 chest
day 2 back
day 3 legs
day 4 shoulder
Day 5 (if i make it to the gym for the 5th) arms
no matter what at home at some point i do some type of arm work out just maybe not a whole session in the gym

and 3-4x per week 25-35 min of elliptical machine

that is my diet now ... i am cutting weight for the last 7 months (lost 80 lbs) got outta sports and found my wife and we just ate and fucked ... but now we are getting married in december and im leaning out to put on some more muscle she doesnt like skinny bone guys ... and she feels i am that way now ....

when on the cyp i am going to increase my diet make sure i have at least 3 shakes and start eating cooked chicken or turkey or lean meats throughout the day .... more veggies and fruits in the am

what do you think ???

and by the way the doc put me on a cc weekly ... most of what i am reading says about 500 mg weekly ???

also he told me every week to inject but gave me enough for 2x weekly ... on purpose .... what should i do ??? (give it away not a good answer

my worthless advice is to stop drinking period. stop all aas, asap. do more than wat your doing in the gym. try 4 days on 1 off. you can do . iam wasting my time. this will go in two ears and out the fifth. your doing good. by the way iam never going to be a pro either. good luck.

ps......if you dont have use for the other 200mg ill gladly take it at no charge to you.

Sully, I have a lot of respect for the people here, they really know their shit and take training, diet and take AAS seriously. Their replies to people such as myself -- a rank beginner and amateur -- can sometimes seem a little cutting, but don't take it personally. If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't bother replying. From my own experience, I can tell you that, when my MD put me on Hormone Replacement Therapy, it really kick started my return to fitness. He started me at 210mg Test C, 100mg Nadrolone per week, 4IUs HGH daily, then added Anavar, 20mg daily about a month ago. I don't know what my BF percentage was, but I did something smart six months ago when I started. Every two weeks, I'd video myself naked, do a slow 360 holding up a sign with my date and weight. A few days ago, I pasted those videos together, and it's like watching a fucking Disney nature film, watching the fat melt off my sides and belly, even though my weight has remained about the same. In other words, AAS definitely didn't make me fatter even though I didn't watch my diet as carefully as the pros here do. I'm pretty old, 59 -- not sure how this all translates to a young guy -- but it has definitely helped change my life for the better. I do the Versaclimber daily, swim open water, and was lifting 3xweek until I fucked up my rotator cuff, so its not all chemically induced. Anyway, just wanted to add an encouraging word.

hey thanks alot .... alot of the reason i want the aas is cause i have plateaued for a while .... and now with the gh @ 3 iu's daily i have increased my strenght cause i am recovering quicker .... and my doctor was like its like have a bmw in your car and not driving it when adding test to it ..... i also am low in test ... and gh levels ... so i am just catching up to what alot of other people produce natural ....

and i know what i am dealing with with the people in these types of forums ... good people with good ideas ... but sometimes u cant always go the best way possible ... i have a "competition" (my wedding) so i need to get there as fast as possible ... if i was sitting on my ass not doing anything and wanting to do this stuff and hadnt been working out for the last 8 months i would understand ... but with the way modern medicine has figured out things ... why the f**k shouldnt i have an advantage just like everyone else ...

on the growth now it has really started kicking in and has changed my life ...

i know cutting out drinking is important ... its been really just the summer where i havent been able to maintain the type of diet i would like .... but for the first 6 months that was the diet i used ... as a non pro i cant diet year round but i have changed my life style of eatting .... and anyone else negative or positive who have something to say go for it .... but at least try and give me something i can do in the gym (would really like to improve my chest) or a supplement that helps while using aas ... or something alittle more intermediate/advanced skill level

These are the guys to ask for advice. I posted something asking about Primobolan because it appears to have few side effects, and a couple of guys said use Anavar instead, I'd be a lot happier. I suggested it to my Doc and he was all for it. There are a lot of good brains here, plus they are also funny as hell. Good luck

Originally Posted by sully169

Average diet:
pre workout a protein shake about 35g of protein

post work out whole grain cereal with 1% milk

lunch tuna or turkey on whole wheat bread low fat mayo

snack yogart, mixed fruit or another protein shake

dinner :a lean meat (ground turkey/chicken, chicken breast with steamed veggies and some type of complex carbs (brown rice, whole wheat pasta etc)

and if i am still hungry i will have another protein shake (rarely)

4 X per week i do splits
day 1 chest
day 2 back
day 3 legs
day 4 shoulder
Day 5 (if i make it to the gym for the 5th) arms
no matter what at home at some point i do some type of arm work out just maybe not a whole session in the gym

and 3-4x per week 25-35 min of elliptical machine

Sully,

Where is your breakfast???? Most important meal of the day. Its sets the body for the rest of the day. What I would ask you to do is go to FitDay.com and track your food intake for the next say week. Then post up your macro's. If your looking to cut while still building or maintaining Lean Muscle, you want to make sure you taking in enough Protein and Fat in your diet while keeping your calories in check.

Based on your current weight of 225 and 25%BF, your LBM is about 169lbs. An estimated caloric intake of about 2200 calories would be "maintenance", so try keeping your calories at 1700-1800 and see how you do.
Protein - between 254-338g
Fat - around 85g

I usually use 1 protein shake post workout and one Casein shake before bed since I HATE the taste of cottage cheese. I usually will count the calories and fat from the nightly Casein shake into my regular goals, but the protein is above my target number. You should try to get as much of your protein from food sources, not shakes. You can add a shot of olive oil into your shake, or mixing into your food to get your fat intake up as well as some Natural Peanut Butter.

My advice to you now would be to stop thinking of any AAS at this time. If your going to stop drinking, then do it first and prove you can do it. Stick with what your doctor is prescribing and go with it for the next 6 months and get your BF below 13%. Read the stickies in the Training forum and get yourself into a revised workout routine. Improve your knowledge of training, incorporate more compounds exercises for god sake eat healthy for awhile. Then, and only then, should you look to add the extra gears you suggested.

I agree with Unclem, this is going to go in both ears and out your fifth (WTF), but I said my peace. OUT!!!

Originally Posted by sully169

Average diet:
pre workout a protein shake about 35g of protein

post work out whole grain cereal with 1% milk

lunch tuna or turkey on whole wheat bread low fat mayo

snack yogart, mixed fruit or another protein shake

dinner :a lean meat (ground turkey/chicken, chicken breast with steamed veggies and some type of complex carbs (brown rice, whole wheat pasta etc)

and if i am still hungry i will have another protein shake (rarely)

4 X per week i do splits
day 1 chest
day 2 back
day 3 legs
day 4 shoulder
Day 5 (if i make it to the gym for the 5th) arms
no matter what at home at some point i do some type of arm work out just maybe not a whole session in the gym

and 3-4x per week 25-35 min of elliptical machine

Just for starters:

1. You're overtraining.
2. You're not eating enough.
3. You're eating the wrong things.
4. You're doing too much cardio.

If you want specific questions answered then ask. I just have a feeling this thread is going to die.

ok aja thanks for your input ... your math was alittle off but i got what your saying ... i do eat breakfast usually but for the last few weeks i have been getting up taking my gh shot and then having a protein shake an hour later then hit the gym right after (all for protein in my system while working out) and then have breakfast -cereal and another protein shake after wards ... understand that breakfast sets the tone for the day

ok chocolate

this is my diet now while i am not on the test ... i am trying to cut some weight and lean up ... im headed to the gym in alittle while and gonna have my bf measured by a trainer ... and then we can have a real dicussion of my bf

but too much cardio while im doing this program ???? while on the test i shouldnt do as much???

and over training??? i usually dont get sore afterwards unless i really push myself and im enjoying what i am doing ... and getting proper sleep

ps hopefully this thread wont die

Get your BF done and then we can figure it out.

ok so 21% is my bf ... so lets figure this out now ... all ears chocolate thunder

Originally Posted by sully169

ok so 21% is my bf ... so lets figure this out now ... all ears chocolate thunder

21%BF is high and will work against you running gear. From what I have read, get below 15% minimum while most would suggest 13% or lower. And that is depending on the gear you will be running. Certain gear is recommended to be in the single digits.

No reason to sound like a dick towards Chocolate either, he's here to help you not hurt or kill yourself as are most who have posted.

Also, having a protein shake an hour before a workout is poor. Get some carbs in an hour or two before your workout and then have the protein post workout. Sometimes it's not just hitting your macro's, but when your eating those foods as well. At least for me, going into the gym without having any carbs usually ends up as a bad workout. But thats just me.

With regards to overtraining, I cant tell that by looking through the thread, but I would ask that you post your routine for the week. Break down the exercise, sets, reps and weight and you will get more feedback on that matter.

what do you mean by work against me??? im under the impression and i have done some research ... that test helps build muscle and burn fat while it does it ... my T count is 220 which is very low and since i was on hgh for healing purposes and overall health my doc encouraged me to go on the test to get the synergistic effects

as for the breakfast and the protein shake before hand ... that was a one week trial ... didnt like it either ... so i have just put my morning cereal as the pre work out meal ... need my carbs too ...

my last 2 weeks have been a circuit of compound exercises hitting all muscle groups (bench press, arnold shoulder press, squats, dips, chin ups, push ups, bent over rows )
before that i was doing each day a diff body part ... was thinking about starting a push pull routine but have no starting point with it ... never done this before

also i went from 300 lbs down to 220 since jan 1 2010 .... i let myself go for about 2 years ... no sports anymore and work became a bitch and eating my way out ... now things have changed and im back to working out hard eating right and taking my vitamins (that is the reason for the high bf)

and ps no disrepect was meant to anyone ... including choc thunder ... im really interested in learning more but im looking for help outside of the diet .... i just finished up a nutrition class at a college level and understand the importance of it and have been taking giant steps to improving what is already a pretty good diet at this point

Best thing to do is focus on fixing your diet and workout problems and forget about AAS for now. You can get help with your diet in the diet section of this board, same thing for your workout plan in the workout forum. Check out Built for diet and a number of people on the workout forum are doing push-pull logs. Gazhole immediately comes to mind. Anabolic Steroids are useful after you reach your natural potential and limits. Taking them before is counter-productive. Props to you for the weight loss, and good luck.

Originally Posted by sully169

ok so 21% is my bf ... so lets figure this out now ... all ears chocolate thunder

Good to see you made it back to this thread, you must really want to make some changes.

Personally, I would just work on getting your BF % down. I would honestly hire someone to do your diet and exercise program for you. There are plenty of places and people who offer these services. You will learn a ton if you go this route.

The reason I suggest hiring someone is because the internet is on overload with different opinions, theories and information. Sorting through all of it is difficult and most of it contradicts itself.

Diet was my weak link until I hired someone. Honestly it was the best money I spent. If you were going to spend the money on gear anyhow use it for a QUALIFIED trainer FIRST and then we can go the AAS route.

That's what I would do.


PM me if you need a name.

when u get back into working out, after taking a 2 year vacation i thought it was always better to do a full body workout (one exercise per body part a day plus 30mins cardio) for three days on then one or two days off depending on your recovery. Everyday change the excercise for the body part. well good luck brother and for real dont take what they say personal, take it to heart.

Originally Posted by sully169

what do you mean by work against me??? im under the impression and i have done some research ... that test helps build muscle and burn fat while it does it ... my T count is 220 which is very low and since i was on hgh for healing purposes and overall health my doc encouraged me to go on the test to get the synergistic effects

as for the breakfast and the protein shake before hand ... that was a one week trial ... didnt like it either ... so i have just put my morning cereal as the pre work out meal ... need my carbs too ...

my last 2 weeks have been a circuit of compound exercises hitting all muscle groups (bench press, arnold shoulder press, squats, dips, chin ups, push ups, bent over rows )
before that i was doing each day a diff body part ... was thinking about starting a push pull routine but have no starting point with it ... never done this before

also i went from 300 lbs down to 220 since jan 1 2010 .... i let myself go for about 2 years ... no sports anymore and work became a bitch and eating my way out ... now things have changed and im back to working out hard eating right and taking my vitamins (that is the reason for the high bf)

and ps no disrepect was meant to anyone ... including choc thunder ... im really interested in learning more but im looking for help outside of the diet .... i just finished up a nutrition class at a college level and understand the importance of it and have been taking giant steps to improving what is already a pretty good diet at this point

How old are you? You might be a TRT prospect.

i am 29 .... and thats what my doc says and my insurance company believes him as well thats why i am going to run the test cyp .... trt is something ive been hearing more and more about didnt think it was for me but when i saw the numbers ... you know what they say ... numbers dont lie

i am getting all my "gear" from a doctor so money isnt the real issue (only have to pay the copays) ... and i have been at a plateau for about 2 months before i started up on the androgel ... right now i am taking 5g daily and will be moving on to the shots in about a week ... strenght gains have been coming along ... moved up in weight in all areas just recently

as for a dietitian not really in my budget ... getting married and school comes before that ... but i am pretty well versed in diet good foods bad foods, glycemic index ... i have been into working out and athletics all my life and have taken many classes regarding the issue of how to eat correctly ... but if i ever did have that money i would definitely ... actually have on more than one occasion done a food diary and put it all in a computer to break down everything i was eating

im not trying to run a monster cycle i am just trying to get the best out of trt while i am on it ...

and as for over training im still confused on that ??? 5-6 days a week ... i enjoy it ... its usually 3 days 1 off and 3 more or something like that ... and with the androgel and test shouldnt i be training enough to make the recovery part of test most beneficial ... i kno i have heard less is more in bb world ... but im not a bb ... so where does that leave me?

also we keep discussing diet but my real question is how many cals should i be eating daily ???
i want to keep shedding some weight but hoping the test will make me anabolic rather than lose the muscle in the catabolic effects of weight loss?? id actually like to remain about the same weight maybe 5 -10lbs less but keep adding the muscle ... right now i am at about 2500-3000 cals/day...(also running 3 ius of gh daily) am i in the right ball park with calories?

Originally Posted by sully169

i am 29 .... and thats what my doc says and my insurance company believes him as well thats why i am going to run the test cyp .... trt is something ive been hearing more and more about didnt think it was for me but when i saw the numbers ... you know what they say ... numbers dont lie

i am getting all my "gear" from a doctor so money isnt the real issue (only have to pay the copays) ... and i have been at a plateau for about 2 months before i started up on the androgel ... right now i am taking 5g daily and will be moving on to the shots in about a week ... strenght gains have been coming along ... moved up in weight in all areas just recently

as for a dietitian not really in my budget ... getting married and school comes before that ... but i am pretty well versed in diet good foods bad foods, glycemic index ... i have been into working out and athletics all my life and have taken many classes regarding the issue of how to eat correctly ... but if i ever did have that money i would definitely ... actually have on more than one occasion done a food diary and put it all in a computer to break down everything i was eating

im not trying to run a monster cycle i am just trying to get the best out of trt while i am on it ...

and as for over training im still confused on that ??? 5-6 days a week ... i enjoy it ... its usually 3 days 1 off and 3 more or something like that ... and with the androgel and test shouldnt i be training enough to make the recovery part of test most beneficial ... i kno i have heard less is more in bb world ... but im not a bb ... so where does that leave me?

Tell your Dr. you want injectable test. Andro gel is ok but IF you ever have kids THE LAST THING YOU NEED IS IT RUBBING OFF ON TO THEM. That's why I think it's best to start with injections to begin with.

You can really do what ever you want. I know for 99.9% of people 2 days in a row is the maximum. YOU NEED TO REST TO GET BETTER, STRONGER AND FASTER. If you're a bb or a weekend warrior.

I would just get the test and then worry about the rest as it progresses.