Thread: Sustanon Obsession

I am not using sust right now, just cyp, but I also like sust, you get the benefit of the short esters and long esters all in one shot...you do know that sust was originally created for HRT purposes, right?

Finally, someone who sees things they way i see them.

There is just something about the name Sustanon.

what is the purpose of having a test mix with an acetate ester and only injecting twice per week ? or propinate ?

I'm more concerned with how much testosterone I am actually injecting than how cool a name sounds.

I bet a lot of people don't realize that when they inject 250mg of Test E, that a considerable amount of that is actually ester weight.
Now imagine adding up 4 different ester weights and subtracting that from your total mg/ml.

I can't remember off hand but I am gonna look up ester weights and post them.

Originally Posted by Prince

I am not using sust right now, just cyp, but I also like sust, you get the benefit of the short esters and long esters all in one shot...you do know that sust was originally created for HRT purposes, right?

How do you run sustanon ? bi-weekly shots or more ?

I can see it being used for HRT but I don't think it's beneficial , especially money wise, to use for bodybuilding.

Hell , i know it works but you would get more actual testosterone for your money by going with a single ester.

Originally Posted by ROID

How do you run sustanon ? bi-weekly shots or more ?

I can see it being used for HRT but I don't think it's beneficial , especially money wise, to use for bodybuilding.

Hell , i know it works but you would get more actual testosterone for your money by going with a single ester.

yes, two shots per week.

the Sust I use has Cyp in it, and when I use one that does not I add Cyp to the shot myself.

Originally Posted by Prince

I am not using sust right now, just cyp, but I also like sust, you get the benefit of the short esters and long esters all in one shot...you do know that sust was originally created for HRT purposes, right?

Why not just front load the cyp to begin with at the start of a cycle? It just seems like too many esters all poping at different times. I could see real hormone fluctuation with all the different esters not to mention unstable blood levels, just my opinion.

Originally Posted by ROID

Finally, someone who sees things they way i see them.

There is just something about the name Sustanon.

what is the purpose of having a test mix with an acetate ester and only injecting twice per week ? or propinate ?

I'm more concerned with how much testosterone I am actually injecting than how cool a name sounds.

I bet a lot of people don't realize that when they inject 250mg of Test E, that a considerable amount of that is actually ester weight.
Now imagine adding up 4 different ester weights and subtracting that from your total mg/ml.

I can't remember off hand but I am gonna look up ester weights and post them.

i would love to know the weights

Originally Posted by unclem

i would love to know the weights

I just pulled this off google from another board. I'm going to double check for accuracy.

Milligrams below are the estimated amount of active hormone per 100mg of hormone and ester.

Boldenone base: 100mg
Boldenone acetate: 83mg
Boldenone Propionate: 80mg
Boldenone Cypionate: 69mg
Boldenone Undecylenate: 61mg

Clostebol Base: 100mg
Clostebol Acetate: 84mg
Clostebol Enanthate: 72mg

Drostanolone Base: 100mg
Drostanolone Propionate: 80mg
Drostanolone Enanthate: 71mg

Methenolone Base: 100mg
Methenolone Acetate: 82mg
Methenolone Enanthate: 71mg

Nandrolone Base: 100mg
Nandrolone Cypionate: 69mg
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate: 63mg
Nandrolone Decanoate: 62mg
Nandrolone Undecylenate: 60mg
Nandrolone Laurate: 56mg

Stenbolone Base: 100mg
Stenbolone Acetate: 84mg

Testosterone Base: 100mg
Testosterone Acetate: 83mg
Testosterone Propionate: 80mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg
Testosterone Enanthate: 70mg
Testosterone Cypionate: 69mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg

Trenbolone Base: 100mg
Trenbolone Acetate: 83mg
Trenbolone Enanthate: 68mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzyl Carbonate: 65mg*
Trenbolone cyclohexylmethylcarbonate: 65mg*

I've posted so many threads as to why sust sucks...here is another read.

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.


So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.


Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

Did you guys also know that sust is now widely used for TST? (Female-to-male transsexual supportive therapy)

Before initiating Sustanon for female-to-male transsexuals, specialist assessment should be undertaken, including psychiatric assessment. A complete personal and medical history should be taken. During treatment, periodic check-ups are recommended of a frequency and nature adapted to the individual. The following should be monitored:

▪ signs of osteoporosis,

▪ changes in lipid profile.

In patients with a personal or family history of breast cancer and with a personal history of endometrial cancer, careful monitoring should be undertaken.

Subject to specialist advice, hysterectomy and bilateral oophorectomy should be considered after 18-24 months of testosterone treatment, to reduce the possible increased risk of endometrial and ovarian cancer.

Continued surveillance is required to detect osteoporosis in patients who have undergone oophorectomy, as testosterone may not fully reverse the decline in bone density in these patients.

Continued surveillance is required to detect endometrial and ovarian cancer in patients on long term treatment who have not proceeded to hysterectomy and bilateral oophorectomy.

Sustanon is used in testosterone replacement therapy for male sexual problems for example:

* after castration or a similar problem called eunuchoidism
* impotence caused by hormonal disorders
* decreased sex drive
* infertility caused by low sperm count
* bone loss caused by low hormone levels
* when the pituitary gland cannot work as well as it should (hypopituitarism); this can cause decreased sexual ability in males.

It is also given to patients to induce masculinisation in female-to-male transsexuals.


My conclusion. Sust should only be taken by those who know exactly what they are doing and should only use it in HIGH doses taken ED for best results. Many people have had great success with it, Robert is a prime example. But he knows his shit and knows exactly what he is doing.


/V

i cant believe only 62mg per 100mg for deca, nandrolone. wow, good to know roid thnx brother. good post victor.

I remember when those brown amps of Org Sust hit the gym, they went like flapjacks,everyone loved them.Hell i liked them too, they were part of my first cycle,I made great gains but honestly most people dont know wtf made them grow from being on so many different types at once and not knowing the half life (myself included).With that said id gladly take them again.

I've had great results with it in a couple cycles. But as I learned more about how it works, use test e now. But I did get great results with it, when I used it. It works, but probably not ideal for experienced bodybuilders though.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT.

I use sus as it's the only test I have access to.

Have seen this article many times, but have yet to hear of anyone run sus with this protocol . . the idea makes sense to me

I have used sust for the same reason as the Capt'n it was all my guy had at the time.It worked well but I was pinning eod.I wish I would have read that article first I may have tried the higher dose every 8 days. Plus would someone rep Roid for me for that post on the esters.I have to spread it around some it says

Originally Posted by TheCapt'n

I use sus as it's the only test I have access to.

Have seen this article many times, but have yet to hear of anyone run sus with this protocol . . the idea makes sense to me

I like the idea of one injection every 8 days but it still just doesn't seem practical for BBing purposes

i love omnadren, its now the same thing, but i cant get it, evverybody i know is out. what did jelfa shut down.

Originally Posted by ChocolateThunder

It just seems like too many esters all poping at different times. I could see real hormone fluctuation with all the different esters not to mention unstable blood levels, just my opinion.

That has always been my concern exactly.
With Rob stating Sust was created for HRT, really makes me wonder. I dont see how you can keep blood levels constant. Rob, have you had any test done while on sust to check t levels?

i personally like to run sustanon especially jelfa omnadren or sust blends like sutaplex325 (i have yet to run syntrop sus450) because it can be used for both either bulking or cutting due to the fast and short esters working together........

irish i just got sustaplex do u run it like omnadren? or sustanon same thing?

Originally Posted by unclem

irish i just got sustaplex do u run it like omnadren? or sustanon same thing?

it depends on what else i'm running if i take it ED or EOD.....i normally try to keep my test above a gram a week up to 2.5g if that's all i'm running....i've responded very well to my version of blast and cruise which is just contantly changing up my mg's and compounds as frequently as my training and diet....it's def not the way to go for everyone, but I have certain goals to achieve in a short time

thnx irish, i love those gram dosages you run makes my mouth dry just thinking of it lol.

Originally Posted by ROID

I just pulled this off google from another board. I'm going to double check for accuracy.

Milligrams below are the estimated amount of active hormone per 100mg of hormone and ester.

Boldenone base: 100mg
Boldenone acetate: 83mg
Boldenone Propionate: 80mg
Boldenone Cypionate: 69mg
Boldenone Undecylenate: 61mg

Clostebol Base: 100mg
Clostebol Acetate: 84mg
Clostebol Enanthate: 72mg

Drostanolone Base: 100mg
Drostanolone Propionate: 80mg
Drostanolone Enanthate: 71mg

Methenolone Base: 100mg
Methenolone Acetate: 82mg
Methenolone Enanthate: 71mg

Nandrolone Base: 100mg
Nandrolone Cypionate: 69mg
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate: 63mg
Nandrolone Decanoate: 62mg
Nandrolone Undecylenate: 60mg
Nandrolone Laurate: 56mg

Stenbolone Base: 100mg
Stenbolone Acetate: 84mg

Testosterone Base: 100mg
Testosterone Acetate: 83mg
Testosterone Propionate: 80mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg
Testosterone Enanthate: 70mg
Testosterone Cypionate: 69mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg

Trenbolone Base: 100mg
Trenbolone Acetate: 83mg
Trenbolone Enanthate: 68mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzyl Carbonate: 65mg*
Trenbolone cyclohexylmethylcarbonate: 65mg*

thnx roid.

Interesting thread. Never understood the multi-ester obsession either. Props as always to Victor Z06 for posting such a complete analysis. It really is interesting how many lifters are drawn to Sust. I like Test C and E paired with Deca and sometimes with Tren, along with d-bol as a kicker, plus ancillaries. I've tried a handful of others , but I really don't think I'll ever do Sustanon.

Blood levels are never constant with sust, it's iether to much or to less of a compound, so to me its a shitty drug. It does work to some degree but , not enough for me. Very good artical Victor.

I am glad I found this post....Victor's posting using a sus type makes very good sense.
I ordered some XT sus 325, and planned on 4 shots per week, but will now try 2 shots
at 650 on day one, and follow the once every 8 day routine. The breakdown of esters
in various compounds is an added plus--knowing approx what amount you are actually getting depending on the ester.

I was also going to stack the sus 325 with Boldenone Undecylenate,
at 600mg a week....based on Boldenone Undecylenate: 61mg of actual
hormone, if that is the case, you are actually only getting 363 mg of
actual, am I right to conclude you would have to dose at 1200mg a week
to actually get around 600?

This is a very good thread, I appreciate the healthy discussion.

I can see where Sustanon could be usefull in the right cycle and stack, but I think it would be tough to run solo in a cycle and expect great results?