Thread: cycle advice

Originally Posted by tin777

im about to order some deca,test,and a oral. when it comes to the test should i spend the extra cash on 250 or 450 blend or just stick with good old cyp..and im concidering d-bal or anadrol leaning towards anadrols.I am looking to get good mass gains out of this cycle any thoughts?

I live in NH too, and I should get in my car and slap you right now.


jk, here-

week 1-15 Test C/E 250, 2x a week for a 500mg/week total
week 1-4 Dbol @ 40mg/day
week 1-14 Deca @300mg/week


there you go cupcake, good first cycle, maybe too much but hey who am I to judge. You could just run the test + deca.

i like mikes advice but i would go with anadrol 100mg ed instead of d-bol it makes you stronger imho.

T-450 is brutal to shoot. It is kinda like molten lava in a vial. Go with a lower mg/ml.

first cycle just run the test and see what happens, why waste the maoney when no need to right now.. run it 14 weeks at 500mg.. nolva /trib/zink for pct.

Originally Posted by letsgetbig

first cycle just run the test and see what happens, why waste the maoney when no need to right now.. run it 14 weeks at 500mg.. nolva /trib/zink for pct.

Nolva and the rest is shit for PCT. Clomid is the way to go. 14 weeks is way too long for a first cycle, after eight weeks you will begin to have diminishing returns. Stay with test c or e, stay away from the blends.

Originally Posted by unclem

i like mikes advice but i would go with anadrol 100mg ed instead of d-bol it makes you stronger imho.

100mgs of drol, are you serioius?
i'd like to see some blood test results after you run that cycle.
using doses of orals like that is what sent guys like Flex and Tom Prince into early retirement and gave them long term health problems.

Originally Posted by bigsalad22

100mgs of drol, are you serioius?
i'd like to see some blood test results after you run that cycle.
using doses of orals like that is what sent guys like Flex and Tom Prince into early retirement and gave them long term health problems.

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.

Hengge UR, Stocks K, Wiehler H, Faulkner S, Esser S, Lorenz C, Jentzen W, Hengge D, Goos M, Dudley RE, Ringham G.
STD-Unit, Department of Dermatology and Venerology, University of Essen, Germany. ulrich.hengge@uni-duesseldorf.de

BACKGROUND: Despite highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART), chronic involuntary weight loss still remains a serious problem in the care of HIV patients. Various alterations in energy metabolism and endocrine regulation have been found to cause loss of lean body mass (LBM) and body cell mass (BCM). Previous studies in HIV-positive men undergoing androgen replacement therapy or treatment with recombinant growth hormone (rGH) have shown partial restoration of LBM, but these treatments have largely been ineffective in eugonadal individuals.

STUDY DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of 89 HIV-positive women and men with wasting assigned to the anabolic steroid oxymetholone [50 mg twice (BID) or three times daily (TID)] or placebo for 16 weeks followed by open-label treatment.

STUDY ENDPOINTS: Body weight, bioimpedance measurements, quality of life parameters and appetite. RESULTS: Oxymetholone led to a significant weight gain of 3.0 +/- 0.5 and 3.5 +/- 0.7 kg in the TID and BID groups, respectively (P < 0.05 for each treatment versus placebo), whereas individuals in the placebo group gained an average of 1.0 +/- 0.7 kg. Body cell mass increased in the oxymetholone BID group (3.8 +/- 0.4 kg; P < 0.0001) and in the oxymetholone TID group (2.1 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.005), corresponding to 12.4 and 7.4% of baseline BCM, respectively. Significant improvements were noted in appetite and food intake, increased well-being and reduced weakness by self-examination. The most important adverse event was liver-associated toxicity. Overall, 35% of patients in the TID, 27% of patients in the BID oxymetholone group and no patients in the placebo group had a greater than five times baseline increase for alanine aminotransferase during the double-blind phase of the study.

CONCLUSIONS: Oxymetholone can be considered an effective anabolic steroid in eugonadal male and female patients with AIDS-associated wasting. The BID (100 mg/day) regimen appeared to be equally effective as the TID (150 mg/day) regimen in terms of weight gain, LBM and BCM and was associated with less, but still significant liver toxicity.

Unclem has many years of experience, and likely runs high dosages as a result. I probably wouldn't go quite that high, but that's just me.

How about we all just agree that my first post was awesome, and so am I, and let this thread die, because the OP is BI.

rap master

Originally Posted by Mike09100

How about we all just agree that my first post was awesome, and so am I, and let this thread die, because the OP is BI.

rap master

You are god's gift to this forum. Oh yeah, I forgot-I'm an atheist.

that's actually all pretty interesting. i knew none of that.
what i do know is that Flex and Tom both had severe kidney and liver problems. yes, of course these could be direct result of there abuse of diruetics, but more then likely their abuse of massive amounts of orals over the years contributed to the problem. especially in Tom's case. I don't know either Flex or Tom personally so its hard to say for sure what these guys did or didn't do right?
all i'm saying is you should take it easy on the orals bro. i know that some guys can handle 100mg of AD a day with no problem, but there there are also guys that are prone to high blood pressure and or liver disease. those are the guys that really need to watch out, and you never know what newbee thats doing his 3rd or 4th cycle is one of these guys right? most guys aren't smart enough to go there doctor regularly and get there blood drawn.
unclem...if you are one of those guys that can do stuff like this and remain in good health then thats cool. no disrespect to you. just gotta watch out for the guys that don't really know what they are getting into. there are clearly guys like that on this board.
your point is well taken about some of these pro's that are clearly using other drugs that contributed to there increase in health problems.
i still think suggesting 100mg of AD is probably not a good idea.

to the OP i took off all my posts as i didnt want to highjack your thread. i was wrong in my opinion in telling u to take 100mg of anadrol ed but i did not know you were a newer user to gear. for that i apologize. just take 500mg of test cyp or testE and thats all for 10 wks. do a clomid and arimidex or aromasin pct. hcg if u got it already. good luck.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.

Hengge UR, Stocks K, Wiehler H, Faulkner S, Esser S, Lorenz C, Jentzen W, Hengge D, Goos M, Dudley RE, Ringham G.
STD-Unit, Department of Dermatology and Venerology, University of Essen, Germany. ulrich.hengge@uni-duesseldorf.de

BACKGROUND: Despite highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART), chronic involuntary weight loss still remains a serious problem in the care of HIV patients. Various alterations in energy metabolism and endocrine regulation have been found to cause loss of lean body mass (LBM) and body cell mass (BCM). Previous studies in HIV-positive men undergoing androgen replacement therapy or treatment with recombinant growth hormone (rGH) have shown partial restoration of LBM, but these treatments have largely been ineffective in eugonadal individuals.

STUDY DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of 89 HIV-positive women and men with wasting assigned to the anabolic steroid oxymetholone [50 mg twice (BID) or three times daily (TID)] or placebo for 16 weeks followed by open-label treatment.

STUDY ENDPOINTS: Body weight, bioimpedance measurements, quality of life parameters and appetite. RESULTS: Oxymetholone led to a significant weight gain of 3.0 +/- 0.5 and 3.5 +/- 0.7 kg in the TID and BID groups, respectively (P < 0.05 for each treatment versus placebo), whereas individuals in the placebo group gained an average of 1.0 +/- 0.7 kg. Body cell mass increased in the oxymetholone BID group (3.8 +/- 0.4 kg; P < 0.0001) and in the oxymetholone TID group (2.1 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.005), corresponding to 12.4 and 7.4% of baseline BCM, respectively. Significant improvements were noted in appetite and food intake, increased well-being and reduced weakness by self-examination. The most important adverse event was liver-associated toxicity. Overall, 35% of patients in the TID, 27% of patients in the BID oxymetholone group and no patients in the placebo group had a greater than five times baseline increase for alanine aminotransferase during the double-blind phase of the study.

CONCLUSIONS: Oxymetholone can be considered an effective anabolic steroid in eugonadal male and female patients with AIDS-associated wasting. The BID (100 mg/day) regimen appeared to be equally effective as the TID (150 mg/day) regimen in terms of weight gain, LBM and BCM and was associated with less, but still significant liver toxicity.

thank you. where did you find this?
the reason i was wondering about blood test result after running a cycle with a high dose of orals is becuase more often then not liver and kidney function will appear abnormal or impaired...and thats a bad thing.

Originally Posted by bigsalad22

thank you. where did you find this?
the reason i was wondering about blood test result after running a cycle with a high dose of orals is becuase more often then not liver and kidney function will appear abnormal or impaired...and thats a bad thing.

Stick around. I have studies on almost everything. Search my post history if you want to learn about the science behind steroids and ancillaries.

If memory serves these guys started having significant increased liver enzymes around week 12 at 100 and 150mg Anadrol daily.

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase... [AIDS. 2003] - PubMed result

Originally Posted by Mike09100

How about we all just agree that my first post was awesome, and so am I, and let this thread die, because the OP is BI.

rap master

We just took a vote and you won first place as this forums biggest ass clown. Chill the fuck out, I'm getting really sick of your crap.

You help contribute nothing of worth to many threads.

Originally Posted by CT

We just took a vote and you won first place as this forums biggest ass clown. Chill the fuck out, I'm getting really sick of your crap.

You help contribute nothing of worth to many threads.

Maybe you failed to open your eyes you fuck, but my first post here (which I was referring to) was the most informative one and answered the OP's questions so why don't you back off because your little rant helped no one, while at least I made a contribution to the thread. OP asked what a good test Deca Dbol cycle would look like for a beginner and I provided him with one. Shut your fucking mouth, stop trying to look smart, youre not always right, and why dont you go spend a little more time in the gym then on the forums because you obviously need to get out more.

You say I don't contribute? I certainly contributed here, now tell me what your post did for the OP????? Wait, nothing... it was useless.

Seriously, fuck you. Oh wait you're a mod, let me kiss your ass...

Originally Posted by Mike09100

I live in NH too, and I should get in my car and slap you right now.


jk, here-

week 1-15 Test C/E 250, 2x a week for a 500mg/week total
week 1-4 Dbol @ 40mg/day
week 1-14 Deca @300mg/week


there you go cupcake, good first cycle, maybe too much but hey who am I to judge. You could just run the test + deca.

.......Are you done yet?

holly toledo, wow is all i can say.

I did begin pretty strong on the juice ,i'm a big dude,but would agree with mike dosage on dbol,if you choose to opt for anadrol go for 50mg ed for 8wks!!!Had incredible gains doing so,you'll have to step twice on that fucking scale to believe what your eyes just saw!!!

Originally Posted by unclem

holly toledo, wow is all i can say.

To one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this board, no less. Unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Mike09100

Maybe you failed to open your eyes you fuck, but my first post here (which I was referring to) was the most informative one and answered the OP's questions so why don't you back off because your little rant helped no one, while at least I made a contribution to the thread. OP asked what a good test Deca Dbol cycle would look like for a beginner and I provided him with one. Shut your fucking mouth, stop trying to look smart, youre not always right, and why dont you go spend a little more time in the gym then on the forums because you obviously need to get out more.

You say I don't contribute? I certainly contributed here, now tell me what your post did for the OP????? Wait, nothing... it was useless.

Seriously, fuck you. Oh wait you're a mod, let me kiss your ass...

I live in NH too, and I should get in my car and slap you right now.


jk, here-

week 1-15 Test C/E 250, 2x a week for a 500mg/week total
week 1-4 Db

Lol...

Big talk from a not-big.

Originally Posted by MDR

Nolva and the rest is shit for PCT. Clomid is the way to go. 14 weeks is way too long for a first cycle, after eight weeks you will begin to have diminishing returns. Stay with test c or e, stay away from the blends.

Sorry MDR,i disagree with you on this one,try to find something better than Nolva when gyno is occuring!!!

Originally Posted by fredlabrute

Sorry MDR,i disagree with you on this one,try to find something better than Nolva when gyno is occuring!!!

Clomid works far better for PCT. Nothing about gyno in the post. Never had gyno (knock on wood!) If it works for you for gyno issues, that's great, but I do not see any benefit in using it. Chocolate Thunder put up a great thread why Nolva is pretty much useless. Victor's post in the thread was particularly insightful also. I would not look to Nolva if I ever did have gyno issues. It is not a good choice for PCT, in my opinion. I know some still use it, but I just don't see why, with all the evidence proving it is just not effective. Hell, don't worry about not agreeing with me. I am married after all, so I'm used to it! (ha ha!)

Have a good one-MDR

Nolva is good for emergency gyno.Heavyiron has put up some good posts about this as well.Clomid & Aromasin are better for pct.God I love hrt no more pct just cruise and blast.

Originally Posted by Mike09100

Maybe you failed to open your eyes you fuck, but my first post here (which I was referring to) was the most informative one and answered the OP's questions so why don't you back off because your little rant helped no one, while at least I made a contribution to the thread. OP asked what a good test Deca Dbol cycle would look like for a beginner and I provided him with one. Shut your fucking mouth, stop trying to look smart, youre not always right, and why dont you go spend a little more time in the gym then on the forums because you obviously need to get out more.

You say I don't contribute? I certainly contributed here, now tell me what your post did for the OP????? Wait, nothing... it was useless.

Seriously, fuck you. Oh wait you're a mod, let me kiss your ass...

My original post was directed towards almost all of your posts, I'm sorry I should have clarified that. IN MY OPINION you just seem that you're above everyone else and some of the things you post are not even close to being correct.

I fail to see where I went on a "rant" as you call it. Please by all means show me where this took place, and if I did, I will be the first to apologize.

If you look back at any of my posts I don't think I've ever cussed you out, did I call you an assclown? Yes. However I never once went off on you like you did towards me. I also never said nor implied that I knew everything or say that I was so smart. Where did I ever say that? I also never said I was always right. Believe it......there are people with far superior knowledge of AAS than me but what I chose to do was read and ask questions instead of being a fool and write the word "fuck" over and over towards someone with whom I disagree with. See the difference?

Others in this thread responded to the original poster and I feel that he/she received all the necessary advice to make a decision.

Me being a MOD has nothing to do with anything. You think things are tough here? You might want to go to a different board and see how your type of posts would be handled.

I'm just making a suggestion here you can take it or leave it but if you would like to sTay here (I hold nothing against you, you may of just had a bad day or something) you need to tone it down. You don't need to act like "Billy Badass", OK?