Thread: ~My latest chem experiment~

Good point. I run them year round.

My ex b/f said, that swallowing helps inhibit estrogen.. Is this true?

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

My ex b/f said, that swallowing helps inhibit estrogen.. Is this true?

It only works for queers so you are on the right track....

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Ok, if you know me (heavyiron) you know I have run just about every crazy cycle out there. I am a long term user (over 22 years off and on) and I have basically been a human experiment when it comes to chemical performance enhancement. I love high dose Testosterone cycles with a few other AAS thrown in and have run some really fun cycles over the years.

A few months back I had a doctor's appointment so I ramped down my meds to 200mg of Testosterone Cypionate per week ONLY. I took no ancillaries.

My total Testosterone seven and a half days after my injection was 686ng/dl. My Estradiol was 47pg/ml. As you can see my Total T was normal and my Estradiol was a bit high. I have advocated aromatase inhibitors for years and this clearly shows I need to be on an AI even at TRT doses of Testosterone.

The take home message is this, take your AI's!

Seems like total T is a little low for 200/week. Does that have something to do with receptors from the higher does of the previous cycle?

I agree on the AI. For me, it just seems like the T & AI go hand in hand. It's not just a matter of keeping your T up, but more of keeping all the hormones involved regulated.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

it only works for queers so you are on the right track....

gych!

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

gych!

It also increases your natural T production, but your on GEARS so it doesn't matter.

Be sure not to swallow all of it. Spray some down your chin so you don't completely squash your E2. you want to be able to perform when it's your turn to return the favor...

GICH!

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Seems like total T is a little low for 200/week. Does that have something to do with receptors from the higher does of the previous cycle?

I agree on the AI. For me, it just seems like the T & AI go hand in hand. It's not just a matter of keeping your T up, but more of keeping all the hormones involved regulated.

It more than likely has to do with aromatization of T to Estradiol. If I had been on an AI my Total T would have been higher.

There is a ton of misinformation on Androgen Receptors. There is no such thing as "clean" receptors or any of that nonsense. You take steroids and your body makes more AR's.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

It more than likely has to do with aromatization of T to Estradiol. If I had been on an AI my Total T would have been higher.

There is a ton of misinformation on Androgen Receptors. There is no such thing as "clean" receptors or any of that nonsense. You take steroids and your body makes more AR's.

So there's no need to back off to 'reset' receptor sensitivity? Interesting... Because I was planning on dropping my T (TRT) to as low as possible, yet still be effective to help with that. I'm still probably go as low as I can (maybe 125-150/week). If nothing else, the gear lasts longer.

Right On!

Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

So there's no need to back off to 'reset' receptor sensitivity? Interesting... Because I was planning on dropping my T (TRT) to as low as possible, yet still be effective to help with that. I'm still probably go as low as I can (maybe 125-150/week). If nothing else, the gear lasts longer.

The reason gains stall is because of myostatin. Just stay on and myostatin will eventually fall back to baseline.

200mg weekly is the lowest I would ever go on Testosterone.

Cruising on 250 E is ok too right?

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

Cruising on 250 E is ok too right?

It depends on your threshold for risk but for me personally I think cruising anywhere from 200-300mg T weekly is fine. Just keep an eye on your hematocrit as it will steadily rise in many cases.

I have no idea what all that is.. I don't even have health insurance lol What's a Doctor?

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

I have no idea what all that is.. I don't even have health insurance lol What's a Doctor?

Honestly, if you are going to play the gear game, this is something you can't skimp on. You need regular blood test to know where you stand. Without these, you really run a health risk because of not knowing.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

It depends on your threshold for risk but for me personally I think cruising anywhere from 200-300mg T weekly is fine. Just keep an eye on your hematocrit as it will steadily rise in many cases.

hematocrit ..what dat...dude

Originally Posted by The Situation

hematocrit ..what dat...dude

Google dude.........
Basically it has to do with red blood cell count. In things like EQ and anadrol, it can increase RBC's and impact hematocrit, and could cause increased risk of blood clots resulting in strokes or heart attacks.

BTW, this is basically what Lance Armstrong and others are accused of blood doping( Erythropoietin-EPO)
More Red Blood Cells = more oxygen in blood = increased performance

Originally Posted by dg806

Honestly, if you are going to play the gear game, this is something you can't skimp on. You need regular blood test to know where you stand. Without these, you really run a health risk because of not knowing.

I can't afford any of that stuff without Insurance.. Fuck it, i'll just cut myself and bleed out a lil here and there.. it oughtta keep me in good standing

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

I can't afford any of that stuff without Insurance.. Fuck it, i'll just cut myself and bleed out a lil here and there.. it oughtta keep me in good standing

Actually you are not too far off. Giving blood every 6 months will lower hematocrit.

heavyiron,please explain your take on using winstrol to lower shbg,and increase performance in the sack.I think it fits in this discussion,and may help a few understand the value of winni in a cycle.

I dropped by AI four weeks after changing to cruise dose test . . Im due for some bloods so will be interesting to see my results.

I honestly thought 200-250mg/wk test was too low for AIs. What sort of dose aromasin would you advocate heavy? 12.5mg EOD?

Interesting reading, need to do some more homework me thinks, i was told only to use an AI if really needed......

Originally Posted by TheCapt'n

I dropped by AI four weeks after changing to cruise dose test . . Im due for some bloods so will be interesting to see my results.

I honestly thought 200-250mg/wk test was too low for AIs. What sort of dose aromasin would you advocate heavy? 12.5mg EOD?

I don't use any on my cruise dose either.I use 12.5 aromasin eod on a blast cycle though,and stop it about 2 weeks after going back to cruising.I use 25mgs ed of winni the last 4 weeks of my blast as well.I have found after yrs of experimenting that this work best for me.I am interested to hear what anyone else thinks or has experienced with this.

Heavy, what do you think about the use of large doses of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) along side an AI? Think it would make a noticeable difference? Would too much vitamin C affect the breakdown of estrogen and lower estrogen levels? I've read that manganese has some control over the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Your thoughts bro?



/V

Originally Posted by dave 236

heavyiron,please explain your take on using winstrol to lower shbg,and increase performance in the sack.I think it fits in this discussion,and may help a few understand the value of winni in a cycle.

There are various hormone imbalances that may lead to sexual dysfunction. When we administer steroids it is easy to create an environment of hormone imbalance. The area of sexual dysfunction is not well understood but we are learning that a high Estradiol to low Free T ratio may be a cause of sexual dysfunction. Therefore it is important to use an aromatase inhibitor to keep the balance in favor of Free T when administering aromatizing compounds. When an AI is dialed in it will keep E2 controlled while keeping Free T high. Basically we want to lower bound Testosterone and E2 so that the bioavailable T (Free T) remains high. When your sex hormone binding globulin is high it is essentially bound T (not bioavailable) Some steroids are very efficient at lowering SHBG and consequentially raising Free T. Winstrol is one such steroid.

In summary AI's lower E2 and Winstrol lowers SHBG which raises Free T.

I would get a full hormonal blood draw and see if you need to address either marker. Try to get your Free T high and your E2 below 30pg/ml for sexual health. Additionally you should see if your prolactin is in the normal range as high prolactin will cause sexual dysfunction. Prolactin lowering medications may reduce your refractory period between orgasms. Some men report the ability for multiple orgasms when using medications like Cabergoline or Pramipexole.

Keep in mind I am writing this from a simple perspective as these hormones are much more complicated than I have addressed.

Originally Posted by TheCapt'n

I dropped by AI four weeks after changing to cruise dose test . . Im due for some bloods so will be interesting to see my results.

I honestly thought 200-250mg/wk test was too low for AIs. What sort of dose aromasin would you advocate heavy? 12.5mg EOD?

That looks like a good place to start but keep in mind only labs can dial in your Aromasin dose. Aromatization is affected by other things than just a specific dose of Testosterone. If you have a high bodyfat you will have more aromatization and therefore a higher E2.

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

Heavy, what do you think about the use of large doses of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) along side an AI? Think it would make a noticeable difference? Would too much vitamin C affect the breakdown of estrogen and lower estrogen levels? I've read that manganese has some control over the liver's ability to break down estrogen. Your thoughts bro?



/V

If you have read my PCT protocol you will see I am a big fan of viamin C. Mostly because this anti-oxidant does have some anti-catabolic effects. When we administer steroids cortisol will rise. Once steroids are discontinued cortisol is still high and we are no longer anabolic. This is a fragile time so anything that can be done to combat cortisol is ideal. I also believe in using vitimin C all the time. Some believe vitimin C is a mild diuretic which for our purposes is welcomed. As far as vitimin C's role in breaking down E2 I am not sure but I take over a gram per day and my labs do reflect a high E2 anyway.