Thread: No Test in cycle

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Is it really important to have test in every cycle and why? For example why would eq alone be bad without test? Wouldn't test and eq further your sides and natural test levels?

I think that in most cases no matter what you take you shut down your natural test production.


Peace and Love

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Is it really important to have test in every cycle and why? For example why would eq alone be bad without test? Wouldn't test and eq further your sides and natural test levels?

Test does a lot of good things such as improve mood, build muscle, improve libido, sustain erections etc. Essentially all AAS shut down your bodies own natural production of Test so supplementing with it is always a good idea.

No test what do u do have vaginosis
thats like corn flakes without the milk

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Is it really important to have test in every cycle and why? For example why would eq alone be bad without test? Wouldn't test and eq further your sides and natural test levels?

My small understanding of this suggests that some steroids, while anabolic, are less androgenic than test. With your endogenous test shut down, so to can your sex drive. Hence the need for at least SOME supplemental androgen, such as test. Nandrolone is one such example - highly anabolic, not terribly androgenic. Taken alone, it often results in "deca dick".

EQ is fairly androgenic, yes? Perhaps it can be taken as a stand alone. Anyone?

Bump

Test should be a staple for cycle. The dose will depend on the individual and the compounds being use. I always run GP test whether its a low dose for cruising or high dose with blasting.

Conrad, that's cool, that's what everybody always says and I'm sure it's right. I'd just like to know if this is true for all steroids, or just some of 'em. And why.

Built I would never suggest anyone to run a cycle without test regardless of the type of AAs being used.

Okay, that's cool.

I just want to understand why.

No test = no libido and possible ed

Not a risk I'm willing to take

Is this the case with all gear, or only those with low androgenic profiles?

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Is it really important to have test in every cycle and why? For example why would eq alone be bad without test? Wouldn't test and eq further your sides and natural test levels?

yes and no

Ive always ran test with every cycle, when i first started 20 years ago it was just done as the norm by most people i knew. Its a good question though as to be honest ive just got so used to adding test i dont even ask why now. I read a post somewhere where someone had ran tren alone and loved it with no issues as far as i can remember so it would be interesting to find out if anyone else has done cycle without adding extra test. JMO.

You can do a cycle without test.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea. Test is a natural hormone in men which plays a role in many other things outside of building muscle. NJC hit it perfectly.

When some get ready for a show they can't use test as they retain too much water from it. Masteron Prop can be used along with winstrol, halo or anavar to help avoid the issues associated with test. Is it the same as test......no, not even close but it works and it's only for a brief time.

Other drugs don't play those roles? Like Eq, Deca? I don't get it don't they raise testosterone levels as well?

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Other drugs don't play those roles? Like Eq, Deca? I don't get it don't they raise testosterone levels as well?

I think NJC and CT covered this pretty well. Test is crucial for all the reasons cited. You can do what you like, but building a cycle without test is like building a house without a foundation. Nothing can replace test and do everything it does as effectively for a long cycle.

Originally Posted by CT

You can do a cycle without test.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea. Test is a natural hormone in men which plays a role in many other things outside of building muscle. NJC hit it perfectly.

When some get ready for a show they can't use test as they retain too much water from it. Masteron Prop can be used along with winstrol, halo or anavar to help avoid the issues associated with test. Is it the same as test......no, not even close but it works and it's only for a brief time.

well said. in my personal experience it works well for a short time. i will normally drop the test between 2-4 weeks before a show (depends on what else i plan to add in) normally would take winny, tren, anavar, and halo right up until 1 week from showtime (take the halo right up until the day of the show)
i have honestly never run a cycle without test for any real length of time. hard to say "you can't do it" or "it won't work" being that i havent tried it.
anyone done a tren only cycle??? or tren and winny? i could see like winny, tren, var, clen working nicely but never tried it.

Again, I am not disagreeing with anyone on making test your base.

What I would like to understand is why this matters. Put another way, what happens if you don't? And I don't mean with the progestins (nandrolone, tren). I mean with testosterone-derived and DHT-derived androgens.

What would happen to a man on say 500mg methenolone enanthate weekly?
Or on the same amount of something like EQ - in both cases, as stand-alone cycles?

How would these differ from say 250 mg test with 250mg ME,
or 250mg test with 250mg EQ?

Originally Posted by Built

Again, I am not disagreeing with anyone on making test your base.

What I would like to understand is why this matters. Put another way, what happens if you don't? And I don't mean with the progestins (nandrolone, tren). I mean with testosterone-derived and DHT-derived androgens.

What would happen to a man on say 500mg methenolone enanthate weekly?
Or on the same amount of something like EQ - in both cases, as stand-alone cycles?

How would these differ from say 250 mg test with 250mg ME,
or 250mg test with 250mg EQ?

lol, i'm a little embarassed to say it...but i don't know.
i don't think anything bad would happen as far as sides being any worse. i think the gains may not be as strong.
anyone have a solid answer on this one???
bump

bigsalad, don't be embarrassed, I appreciate your honesty. So far nobody else who has posted appears to truly understand the "why" part either - although I can appreciate the bros have done it this way for a long time, and there must be a reason or they wouldn't.

For women, using test as a base is a moot point. No boys to turn off or on, etc, although I've had men tell me to use test as a base, regardless. If there's a good physiologic reason - and there might be - I'd like to know what it is.

i take now only halotestin from British dragon halotestex..fuck i love it. i am on 60mg a day..i am hard as rock. But mad mad mad all the time..

Originally Posted by Built

bigsalad, don't be embarrassed, I appreciate your honesty. So far nobody else who has posted appears to truly understand the "why" part either - although I can appreciate the bros have done it this way for a long time, and there must be a reason or they wouldn't.

For women, using test as a base is a moot point. No boys to turn off or on, etc, although I've had men tell me to use test as a base, regardless. If there's a good physiologic reason - and there might be - I'd like to know what it is.

Doesn't it have allot to do with the down stream conversions to other hormones that only test can provide once a shut down occurs?

Originally Posted by Built

Again, I am not disagreeing with anyone on making test your base.

What I would like to understand is why this matters. Put another way, what happens if you don't? And I don't mean with the progestins (nandrolone, tren). I mean with testosterone-derived and DHT-derived androgens.

Without test most men are fatigued, unmotivated, moody & lose libido. EXACTLY what you don't want. Like I previously posted you can choose not to use test but I would rather not feel like garbage.

What would happen to a man on say 500mg methenolone enanthate weekly?

What would happen is what I posted above. Other types of AAS DO NOT raise testosterone levels like synthetic test. Other AAS compounds are a derivitive of testosterone but they aren't test - Big difference.

Or on the same amount of something like EQ - in both cases, as stand-alone cycles?

Same as above.

How would these differ from say 250 mg test with 250mg ME,
or 250mg test with 250mg EQ?

You would feel much better, have energy, improved libido and be motivated. The bottom line is that test is king of all AAS and everything else is second. So, yes you can do a cycle without test but test is what makes a male a male and if you've ever gone through a PCT where your test levels are zero or close to it you feel like complete garbage.

I hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Built

Okay, that's cool.

I just want to understand why.

Lol

Originally Posted by Built

Again, I am not disagreeing with anyone on making test your base.

What I would like to understand is why this matters. Put another way, what happens if you don't? And I don't mean with the progestins (nandrolone, tren). I mean with testosterone-derived and DHT-derived androgens.

Originally Posted by CT

Without test most men are fatigued, unmotivated, moody & lose libido. EXACTLY what you don't want. Like I previously posted you can choose not to use test but I would rather not feel like garbage.

Men feel like garbage when they are deficient in ANDROGEN, yes. My husband is on HRT, believe me I am aware of this very real health problem. I have not yet seen anything in this thread that convinces me that the androgen must be testosterone.

If I am not mistaken, other androgens will bind to (and subsequently agonize) androgen receptors; also if I am not mistaken, all AAS are (to varying degrees) suppressive of endogenous testosterone production.

It does, and it also raises more questions.

I do not doubt that PCT is a bitch. I am not talking about PCT. I'm talking about the effect while ON the cycle.

I know at least five men who have run Deca-only cycles and felt great, no problems at all. I also know many more who have had "trouble" running Deca even while on test, so I am aware that this is by no means universal. Response and reaction to different androgen preparations is highly individual, I do realize this. However, we are all more similar than different; were this not the case there would be no point in studying endocrinology.

So far - and I do appreciate the responses if this comes out sounding curt - I have heard anecdotal "the bros knows ya' gots to runz the test", and I believe you. No matter what, the bottom line is that you do it if it works.

I still don't have clear picture of why this matters - aside from the "progestin AKA deca-dick" situation; for example, I've never heard of "Primo-dick".

Please keep this going - I'd especially like to hear more from men who may have run cycles without test.

I have never heard a single report of loss of libido from a D-bol only cycle. Seems like the androgenic steroids support healthy libido and a sense of well being.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

I have never heard a single report of loss of libido from a D-bol only cycle. Seems like the androgenic steroids support healthy libido and a sense of well being.

heavyiron, thank you for this.

Other than testosterone, what other steroids do you know of that have this effect?

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Other drugs don't play those roles? Like Eq, Deca? I don't get it don't they raise testosterone levels as well?

No they dont. They are structurally distinct as are their metabolites. Just add 150 mg of test per week at least. You will feel a lot better.

Originally Posted by JPGIZZLE

Other drugs don't play those roles? Like Eq, Deca? I don't get it don't they raise testosterone levels as well?

They raise ANDROGEN levels. They lower endogenous testosterone output, as do all anabolic steroids.

A cycle of testosterone lowers endogenous testosterone also, except that with test, you're replacing what your boys no longer make, and then some. That's why you need to run more than HRT levels when you run test. Otherwise, you're just giving your boys a vacation.

Glycomann's suggestion of 150mg a week is HRT-level testosterone for most men (actually, published literature demonstrates 125mg a week is average HRT level). My (185 lb, 43 year old) husband is on HRT at 150mg test cyp per week, pinned at 75mg twice a week and this puts him just above the top end of normal.