Thread: PCT Question

Where is your prolactiin antagonist? Get some prami/caber.

Here's what I would run for PCT.

Nolva @ 40/20/20/20 (Optional 5th week @ 10)
and
Clomid @ 75/50/50/25 (Optional 5th week @ 25)

---

Howevever, my next cycle I will be substituting the Nolva (and keeping the clomid) with.. Fareston @ 120/90/60/30 (Optional 5th week @ 30)

Clomid is fine by itself, no need to run it with nolva as explained above.

Originally Posted by pyes

Clomid is fine by itself, no need to run it with nolva as explained above.

You are correct. There is no NEED for both.

Some people run clomid only PCTs.
Some people run Nolva only PCTs.
Some people run Fareston only PCTs.

^All, dosed accurately, will suffice for recovery.

I just like to use Nolva/Clomid as the compounds act slightly different. Google it.

I am a fan of Clomid. Works very well for me, with very few negatives.

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

You are correct. There is no NEED for both.

Some people run clomid only PCTs.
Some people run Nolva only PCTs.
Some people run Fareston only PCTs.

^All, dosed accurately, will suffice for recovery.

I just like to use Nolva/Clomid as the compounds act slightly different. Google it.

hay tyler so hes running deca in his cycle and every one is saying not to run nolva if you r runing a 19 nor. do i got this all wrong? i have nolva but havent touched it cuz thats what im hearing.

I don't like Nolva period, but you should never run it with a 19 Nor.

Originally Posted by chucky1

hay tyler so hes running deca in his cycle and every one is saying not to run nolva if you r runing a 19 nor. do i got this all wrong? i have nolva but havent touched it cuz thats what im hearing.

Originally Posted by MDR

I don't like Nolva period, but you should never run it with a 19 Nor.

I know that you should never run it WITH a 19nor, but I have known people to run it for PCT and be just fine.

I missed, that you were on deca. To be safe, just run clomid. Any other cycle I like both compound for PCT though.

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

I know that you should never run it WITH a 19nor, but I have known people to run it for PCT and be just fine.

I missed, that you were on deca. To be safe, just run clomid. Any other cycle I like both compound for PCT though.

I meant as PCT for cycle. I figured you probably didn't see the Deca. Personally, I don't think Nolva is useful for PCT at all. Just my two cents.

Originally Posted by MDR

I meant as PCT for cycle. I figured you probably didn't see the Deca. Personally, I don't think Nolva is useful for PCT at all. Just my two cents.

I agree. Tons of people rep Nolva for being the better PCT drug. Others rep Clomid for being the best PCT drug.

That is exactly why I use both.

Originally Posted by pimprn

Hey guys what would you recommend for this :

Cycle Length 12 weeks
Cycle layout
Weeks 1-12 750mgs of test enanthate (GP)
Weeks 1-12 500mgs of Deca per week
Weeks 1-4 50mg of oxy per week
weeks 1-12 2.5mgs of exemestene (aromasin) per day.

Thanks guys!

pimprn, why so much gear? You don't think you'll make gains on 500 a week of test and 300 of Deca? You've already had trouble with gyno and acne. Are you ASKING for more sides?

To be honest built i think my acne was from to much androgens caused by the tren. Also because i read that estrogen causes it. I have been reading, and i think that it is smart to hit your receptors hard before they clog? This is my theory and i want to try it......unless proven otherwise that this is a stupid decision let me know this cycle is not set in stone. Im not going do it for a while yet anyhow i still have to nail my training and eating like i said before i will do it when im ready. But i have to line up everything and im excited lmao!

So how about aromasin and hcg?

Originally Posted by MDR

I don't like Nolva period, but you should never run it with a 19 Nor.

MDR so whats the consequences for this running nolva with deca - 19 nor?

CT started a great thread on just this topic-

Why nolvadex is a poor choice
1. Nolva inhibits IGF and GH.

2. Additional strain to your liver.

3. Nolva blocks estrogen, it's not a suicidal like aromasin.

4. Clomid blocks estrogen AND stimulates LH.

5. Increase in progestin sides.

6. Nolva does NOT stop the production of estrogen

Check out the whole thread online for more details.



.......Still want to use this useless outdated garbage of a drug?

Here is another post by CT dealing with Progestin sides-
Parmipexole is for progestin sides and should always be used with any 19nor. no matter what dose.
Think of it this way, why wait for a gyno problem? using the proper tools makes sure a problem isn't going to even exist.
.125mg to start. I would go no higher than .25mg.
You HAVE to dose it ED. Start on a Friday night, as it may cause insomnia and extreme fatigue about 60mins after dose. Sides will stop about 10 days (at the most) after first dose.
If you're going to use research products, use an insulin pin to measure it out.
Good luck.

My understanding of this issue is that Nolva is not a good solution for progestin sides. It will only serve to make the problem worse. Why use a product that fails to do what you want it to do, when you have another product that works so well?

Thats great guys we have helped him with the choice of clomid or nolva but nothing was said about HCG. Another thing is I think the aromasin dose is to low. He says 2.5 mgs per day. It should be 12.5 per day and a lot of guys have to raise it to 25mgs per day. On the HCG It's my opinion that it should be used on cycle 2x per wk. 250iu's 2x per wk works fine for me but he's running higher doses than I prefer but if thats not enough he can adjust on the fly. And I agree clomid is the better choice as I believe tyler pointed to. Even though last time I ran nolva along side it. This time I will do just clomid. Aromasin has to be taken daily whereas arimadex can be dosed EOD because of the longer half life.

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

Thats great guys we have helped him with the choice of clomid or nolva but nothing was said about HCG. Another thing is I think the aromasin dose is to low. He says 2.5 mgs per day. It should be 12.5 per day and a lot of guys have to raise it to 25mgs per day. On the HCG It's my opinion that it should be used on cycle 2x per wk. 250iu's 2x per wk works fine for me but he's running higher doses than I prefer but if thats not enough he can adjust on the fly. And I agree clomid is the better choice as I believe tyler pointed to. Even though last time I ran nolva along side it. This time I will do just clomid. Aromasin has to be taken daily whereas arimadex can be dosed EOD because of the longer half life.

A lot of folks suggest even higher doses of HCG that the traditional 500 per week. Nice addition to the thread.

Originally Posted by pimprn

To be honest built i think my acne was from to much androgens caused by the tren. Also because i read that estrogen causes it. I have been reading, and i think that it is smart to hit your receptors hard before they clog?

I think it's smart to plan ahead like you're doing. I also think it's smart to get your shit together and eat and train to grow BEFORE you start another cycle. That way you'll keep some of your gains this time.

I am of a mind that with increased dosing comes increased sides. More will not make you bigger - that part comes from food. Remember, along with your training, the gear just tells the food where to go.

As I said, you're already dealing with rather significant androgen-related sides. Why would you want to push your risk of sides up so high before you've developed consistency in your eating and training?

[/tough love]

Love, Mom.

Originally Posted by Built

pimprn, why so much gear? You don't think you'll make gains on 500 a week of test and 300 of Deca? You've already had trouble with gyno and acne. Are you ASKING for more sides?

She's right; plus with that much deca, you're asking for a droopy dick. Ever hear of deca dick? I will NEVER use it again. Took me a month to get my libido and standuppage back. Keep it simple. 500mgs of test a week will do complete wonders.

Originally Posted by Built

[/tough love]

Love, Mom.

MILF...if I wasnt married.

Originally Posted by chucky1

MDR so whats the consequences for this running nolva with deca - 19 nor?

5. Increase in progestin sides

Originally Posted by Tyler3295

5. Increase in progestin sides

That's the one-sorry if that wasn't clear. That's why I followed up with CT's suggestion on how to better deal with Progestin.

Ahhh im confused........all im gathering is that nolva sucks and to use clomid? But what if i use Adex and hcg or aromasin and hcg?
For instance should i use adex while on cycle or aromasin? Which one is better. I hear some people swear by aromasin? Give a dosage while on cycle and off if i should take adex i am prone to gyno keep that in mind. I heard also taking nolva while on cycle hinders your gains, also does adex or aromasin hinder your gains?

Originally Posted by pimprn

Ahhh im confused........all im gathering is that nolva sucks and to use clomid? But what if i use Adex and hcg or aromasin and hcg?
For instance should i use adex while on cycle or aromasin? Which one is better. I hear some people swear by aromasin? Give a dosage while on cycle and off if i should take adex i am prone to gyno keep that in mind. I heard also taking nolva while on cycle hinders your gains, also does adex or aromasin hinder your gains?

If you over-do it with adex/aromasin and kill too much estrogen, then yes. It will hinder gains.

As far as adex vs aromasin. I prefer adex ON cycle as it won't kill as much estrogen. I prefer aromasin with PCT as it is a steroidal suicide AI that won't leave you with an estrogen rebound (like adex/letro can).

I have ran adex @ 0.5mg EOD and Nolva @ 10mg EOD before and it didn't hinder gains. That I noticed anyways. Of course, I didn't really care as I was getting gyno symptoms pretty bad.

HCG will make recovery easier/quicker. Some run it on cycle (250iu 2x/wk), while others blast it the last 2-3 weeks (1000-1500 iu 3x/wk).

I like adex and I use .5mg every other day during the entire cycle and through PCT. Aromasin is the most effective, but is more expensive. I have very little propensity for gyno problems, but if i did I'd probably use Aromasin. it is a suicidal, and there can be some estrogen rebound with ADEX. I do not think that taking an A/I hinders your gains in the least. Roaddkingg posted earlier about Aromasin dosages, and I think he's right on. 12.5-25mg each day, you need to find what works for you. I'd probably start with 12.5mg a day and raise it if necessary. Hcg is also something you need to consider. Taking it during your cycle will help you recover faster and keep your boys functioning. It is a lot to take in all at once, and if i can recommend a sticky to check out, you might look at Heavyiron's info relating to first cycles and PCT. A lot of great info, and presented in a very ordered and organized manner. Don't be afraid to keep asking questions if you have any confusion. All this can be very daunting, but I guarantee with a little research and continued feedback, it'll all come together. Tyler makes some good points above, and he has fought the battle with gyno. He points out why Aromisin is so popular during PCT especially. It is important not to overdo it with A/I's. For me, I take as little as I can to get the needed results.

so hcg 250iu 2x a week and adex at .5mgs eod? Also i started taking letro yesturday because i have a gyno issue my nip is very tender and there is a small lump. Im taking 2.5mgs for 7 days then probably cutting dose in half for another week so 1.25mgs then prolly into a quarter for last week to .625mgs? You think i will get rebound or ? And what should i take after this gyno reversing thing i got going on? Thanks for the input?

Yeah, adex @ 0.25-0.5mg EOD will suffice.

As far as letro, be careful. Not only can that stuff be pretty harsh but a rebound is easy to come by as it kills 90-something% of your estrogen.

Taper down the letro. The last day of your Letro start Nolva @ 20mg ED for one week. Then Nolva @ 10mg ED for another week. This should avoid a rebound.

I think aromasin is the best drug for me because it is effective and wont leave estro rebound.

why nolva and not aromasin?