Thread: Genetics or Receptors ?

it def got something to do with it. I know my boy always looked good, and he started juicing and blew up. I also know people who use way more juice then him and can't even get close to what he looks like. Now you have to consider diet also but a lot to do with genetics and receptors. Nice thread dude i always like your post SD

Actually that IS interesting..when I think about it, you're right, you don't see "vacuum" poses done anymore. I think the last guy that I recall doing a really impressive one was Frank Zane. The amount of food required to maintain 300lbs would be ridiculous! Interesting post.

It is genetics, nutrition, training, recovery and drugs. Probably in that order.

Your body makes more receptors so it is unlikely it has much to do with receptors.

In this study 600mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate increased the number of Androgen Receptors in healthy men after 20 weeks of administration.


Androgen Receptor in Human Skeletal Muscle and Cultured Muscle Satellite Cells: Up-Regulation by Androgen Treatment

Indrani Sinha-Hikim, Wayne E. Taylor, Nestor F. Gonzalez-Cadavid, Wei Zheng and Shalender Bhasin
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Shalender Bhasin, M.D., Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, 1731 East 120th Street, Los Angeles, California 90059. E-mail: sbhasin@ucla.edu.


Abstract

Androgens stimulate myogenesis, but we do not know what cell types within human skeletal muscle express the androgen receptor (AR) protein and are the target of androgen action. Because testosterone promotes the commitment of pluripotent, mesenchymal cells into myogenic lineage, we hypothesized that AR would be expressed in mesenchymal precursor cells in the skeletal muscle. AR expression was evaluated by immunohistochemical staining, confocal immunofluorescence, and immunoelectron microscopy in sections of vastus lateralis from healthy men before and after treatment with a supraphysiological dose of testosterone enanthate. Satellite cell cultures from human skeletal muscle were also tested for AR expression. AR protein was expressed predominantly in satellite cells, identified by their location outside sarcolemma and inside basal lamina, and by CD34 and C-met staining. Many myonuclei in muscle fibers also demonstrated AR immunostaining. Additionally, CD34+ stem cells in the interstitium, fibroblasts, and mast cells expressed AR immunoreactivity. AR expression was also observed in vascular endothelial and smooth muscle cells. Immunoelectron microscopy revealed aggregation of immunogold particles in nucleoli of satellite cells and myonuclei; testosterone treatment increased nucleolar AR density. In enriched cultures of human satellite cells, more than 95% of cells stained for CD34 and C-met, confirming their identity as satellite cells, and expressed AR protein. AR mRNA and protein expression in satellite cell cultures was confirmed by RT-PCR, reverse transcription and real-time PCR, sequencing of RT-PCR product, and Western blot analysis. Incubation of satellite cell cultures with supraphysiological testosterone and dihydrotestosterone concentrations (100 nM testosterone and 30 nM dihydrotestosterone) modestly increased AR protein levels. We conclude that AR is expressed in several cell types in human skeletal muscle, including satellite cells, fibroblasts, CD34+ precursor cells, vascular endothelial, smooth muscle cells, and mast cells. Satellite cells are the predominant site of AR expression. These observations support the hypothesis that androgens increase muscle mass in part by acting on several cell types to regulate the differentiation of mesenchymal precursor cells in the skeletal muscle.

Full study;

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/89/10/5245

^^^ great post

Originally Posted by heavyiron

It is genetics, nutrition, training, recovery and drugs. Probably in that order.

Your body makes more receptors so it is unlikely it has much to do with receptors.

In this study 600mg per week of Testosterone Enanthate increased the number of Androgen Receptors in healthy men after 20 weeks of administration.


Androgen Receptor in Human Skeletal Muscle and Cultured Muscle Satellite Cells: Up-Regulation by Androgen Treatment

Indrani Sinha-Hikim, Wayne E. Taylor, Nestor F. Gonzalez-Cadavid, Wei Zheng and Shalender Bhasin
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Shalender Bhasin, M.D., Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, 1731 East 120th Street, Los Angeles, California 90059. E-mail: sbhasin@ucla.edu.


Abstract

Androgens stimulate myogenesis, but we do not know what cell types within human skeletal muscle express the androgen receptor (AR) protein and are the target of androgen action. Because testosterone promotes the commitment of pluripotent, mesenchymal cells into myogenic lineage, we hypothesized that AR would be expressed in mesenchymal precursor cells in the skeletal muscle. AR expression was evaluated by immunohistochemical staining, confocal immunofluorescence, and immunoelectron microscopy in sections of vastus lateralis from healthy men before and after treatment with a supraphysiological dose of testosterone enanthate. Satellite cell cultures from human skeletal muscle were also tested for AR expression. AR protein was expressed predominantly in satellite cells, identified by their location outside sarcolemma and inside basal lamina, and by CD34 and C-met staining. Many myonuclei in muscle fibers also demonstrated AR immunostaining. Additionally, CD34+ stem cells in the interstitium, fibroblasts, and mast cells expressed AR immunoreactivity. AR expression was also observed in vascular endothelial and smooth muscle cells. Immunoelectron microscopy revealed aggregation of immunogold particles in nucleoli of satellite cells and myonuclei; testosterone treatment increased nucleolar AR density. In enriched cultures of human satellite cells, more than 95% of cells stained for CD34 and C-met, confirming their identity as satellite cells, and expressed AR protein. AR mRNA and protein expression in satellite cell cultures was confirmed by RT-PCR, reverse transcription and real-time PCR, sequencing of RT-PCR product, and Western blot analysis. Incubation of satellite cell cultures with supraphysiological testosterone and dihydrotestosterone concentrations (100 nM testosterone and 30 nM dihydrotestosterone) modestly increased AR protein levels. We conclude that AR is expressed in several cell types in human skeletal muscle, including satellite cells, fibroblasts, CD34+ precursor cells, vascular endothelial, smooth muscle cells, and mast cells. Satellite cells are the predominant site of AR expression. These observations support the hypothesis that androgens increase muscle mass in part by acting on several cell types to regulate the differentiation of mesenchymal precursor cells in the skeletal muscle.

Full study;

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/89/10/5245

In your opinion ,don't you think that perhaps some people are born with a higher number of receptors available naturally maybe as part of they're genetics ? The addition on aas compound would as your study shows increase them still beyond someone who started with lower numbers.Correct?



I've been going over the basic's http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/mc...9/439IntR7.ppt
and I believe I'm understand'n. I am interested in informed opinions such as yours Thanks

Peace and Love

Originally Posted by Supermans Daddy

In your opinion ,don't you think that perhaps some people are born with a higher number of receptors available naturally maybe as part of they're genetics ? The addition on aas compound would as your study shows increase them still beyond someone who started with lower numbers.Correct?



I've been going over the basic's http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/mc...9/439IntR7.ppt
and I believe I'm understand'n. I am interested in informed opinions such as yours Thanks

Peace and Love

Receptors will not totally saturate until you use very high doses so I don't think receptors are even an issue. In other words even if a guy had 50% the number of receptors of someone else he would still have extra receptors to occupy and then once steroids are administered his body would make even more receptors.

I tend to think genetic freaks have less growth inhibitors like Myostatin.

So if genetics play a role, why is it that on alot of guys, it's only certain body parts and not the whole body?? My arms and calves grow when I sneeze i think..but I have to train my ass off to get a centimeter out of the rest of me...what' sup wit that??????

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Receptors will not totally saturate until you use very high doses so I don't think receptors are even an issue. In other words even if a guy had 50% the number of receptors of someone else he would still have extra receptors to occupy and then once steroids are administered his body would make even more receptors.

I tend to think genetic freaks have less growth inhibitors like Myostatin.

The growth factor inhibitors and maybe some other parts of the hyperplasia system like IGF-1 receptors or more active forms of IGF-1. Maybe Follistatin, the negative regulator of myostatin as well. In the case of a myostatin mutant one might predict unchecked growth. No stall at wek 8 and beyond and the more anabolic compound the more the growth and it seems that's what happens in the career of the elite BBer. Balco found a high number of super responders to have myostatin mutations and or IGF-1 mutations. Flex Wheeler wsa one with both.

Originally Posted by Glycomann

The growth factor inhibitors and maybe some other parts of the hyperplasia system like IGF-1 receptors or more active forms of IGF-1. Maybe Follistatin, the negative regulator of myostatin as well. In the case of a myostatin mutant one might predict unchecked growth. No stall at wek 8 and beyond and the more anabolic compound the more the growth and it seems that's what happens in the career of the elite BBer. Balco found a high number of super responders to have myostatin mutations and or IGF-1 mutations. Flex Wheeler wsa one with both.

Good point.

Peace and Love

After doing some more research I'm wonder'n could some peoples receptors be
more resistant to " flood'n keep'n them open and cleared to continue work'n longer than others before bein replaced ?

Peace and Love

One thing I've heard was that guys run more in the NPCs than the pros, and I could believe it. Some people run huge doses chasing after something (look at plenty of guys on the net who run way more than they should), but its not drugs alone that get you anywhere positive.

When we talk about genetics, its not just naturally we're talking about, but how well you respond to a quantity of drugs. Plenty of pros started out as little tikes too, but responded really well, trained hard, and ate 'mostly right.'

So these 5 gram of test a week guys are mostly in the NPCs supposedly.

Originally Posted by Supermans Daddy

After doing some more research I'm wonder'n could some peoples receptors be
more resistant to " flood'n keep'n them open and cleared to continue work'n longer than others before bein replaced ?

Peace and Love

Sure, just like some people have stronger reactions to drugs than others - we aren't the same inside.

Originally Posted by lifthvy

Actually that IS interesting..when I think about it, you're right, you don't see "vacuum" poses done anymore. I think the last guy that I recall doing a really impressive one was Frank Zane. The amount of food required to maintain 300lbs would be ridiculous! Interesting post.

Lee Haney was the last BIG Olympia winner to remain vacuum pose-able during his entire career. I wouldn't even really say the smaller guys can do it anymore, then again by late 80s standards Dexter is pretty big.

Originally Posted by Mudge

Sure, just like some people have stronger reactions to drugs than others - we aren't the same inside.

I've been goin over different reports that go either way on this, so I think I have an opinion for myself now. I agree with you completely, different people are effected differently. Obviously something causes this. I down to genetics effect'n receptors ability to use compounds longer in a more productive manner. I think about how dr's will give a script to someone and it works great while another will not be effected and need to change scripts in obtain the same results. I kinda think that has something to do with receptors and genetics as well.

Peace and Love

^^^Good post SD always a nice read when you make threads or post

Originally Posted by Mudge

Lee Haney was the last BIG Olympia winner to remain vacuum pose-able during his entire career. I wouldn't even really say the smaller guys can do it anymore, then again by late 80s standards Dexter is pretty big.

Haney was truly amazing. Big, lean and well-balanced physique.

there is WAY too much HGH use in the IFBB today which is why the vacumm pose has gone away. people forget that long term and high dosages of HGH abuse causes intestinal growth.

Originally Posted by LAM

there is WAY too much HGH use in the IFBB today which is why the vacumm pose has gone away. people forget that long term and high dosages of HGH abuse causes intestinal growth.

i'm ready to start hgh with my next cycle is 2 ius a day good 5 days a week with aas on top

Originally Posted by LAM

there is WAY too much HGH use in the IFBB today which is why the vacumm pose has gone away. people forget that long term and high dosages of HGH abuse causes intestinal growth.

Exactly .

Peace and Love

I have a buddy who maintains 21" arms with no more than 1.5cc of anything, and he takes long breaks too. All of the people I have come across who do high doses, are on the internet. Local gyms across the bay area its never more than 2cc of anything it seems, and oftentimes only one item at a time because of street pricing.

Originally Posted by Mudge

I have a buddy who maintains 21" arms with no more than 1.5cc of anything, and he takes long breaks too. All of the people I have come across who do high doses, are on the internet. Local gyms across the bay area its never more than 2cc of anything it seems, and oftentimes only one item at a time because of street pricing.

Makes you really wonder if all these reports are actually true or not. I'm sure a few are, but some not IMO

Originally Posted by dg806

Makes you really wonder if all these reports are actually true or not. I'm sure a few are, but some not IMO

I'd hope that some are certainly exaggerated. But I think perhaps those that aren't are maybe are the people that are try'n to get gains that require more time but are attempt'n to compensate huge dose's in place of patience. And just for the sake of mention'n it , I've had my best results from low doses as far as HGH.


I'm get'n the idea that increase'n doses will at a point ( on some) will flood receptors and therefore halt effectiveness, but a change of compounds will stimulate new receptors which is what was explained in the theory behind the long /change short/change long/short etc. OK I've had an understand'n of this for a while so it makes sense. I'm wonder'n if maybe use'n a bridge of say a milder compound (like Primobolan) every so often would allow you to return to a compound without rotation to keep it effective. I already can understand why cycle'n in this manner requires stay'n on. Obviously this a protocol with risk. But I can also see how a person could prepare to do this in a somewhat "safe" manner. Once your on........ your on.

Peace and Love

Dave Pulcinella did about 4 grams a week and 5 iu of GH a day. I heard him say so on Off topic radio on rxmuscle. Here's one of his vids. He did raising the bar 1, 2 and 3 with his brother.