Thread: Pyramiding cycles by heavyiron

I have done over 20 higher dosed pyramiding cycles over the decades and thought I would share one I just designed for a member. This member is an experienced user who wanted a 20+ week cycle. I prefer shorter runs when using higher doses but he wants to grow into a comp so he determined the cycle length. I personally would have liked to see this compressed into 12 weeks but he is set on 20+ weeks. This member wanted to use primarily testosterone and low dose deca.

*This cycle is for experienced users*

Myostatin limits growth around day 56 of a cycle. You can "push" gains by adding strong anabolics or upping the dose or my favorite, both.

Since you have little to no limiting growth factors the first 7-8 weeks there is no need to increase the dose however we must account for ester length when timing the increased dose. Timing your steroids is a commonly overlooked feature of cycle design.

Your choice of testosterone is excellent for pyramiding as I believe it must be the base of nearly every cycle design. Most experienced men can tolerate high doses with low incidence of side effects as long as E2 is controlled. It has been argued that most men reach a point of diminishing returns around 1.5 grams T weekly. I believe this to be a reasonable high end dose. I begin to experience more sides than is comfortable around 1.8 grams weekly. Around 2.5 grams I am quite uncomfortable so it is ideal to limit exposure to high doses. In other words, short durations at high doses are ideal.

Nandrolone is also an excellent bulker that has many positive therapeutic effects. I prefer low doses early in a course to prepare my joints for heavy lifting. 200-300mg weekly is plenty for therapeutic effects. For bulking, 2mg per lb of bodyweight is a good rule of thumb. Since Nandrolone can cause unwanted sides I tend to dose on the low end. I would run the deca as long as possible since it is such a low dose. Please consider 10 weeks minimum. Obviously you will need to drop the deca 5 weeks before a show.

Your choice of Letro is fine however it is a myth that it is much stronger than other AI's. AI's work about the same in men administering testosterone. One can usually see about a 50% reduction in E2 no matter the AI. 1mg adex=2.5mg letro=25mg aromasin in males. Letro does possess a slightly longer half life so dosing less frequently is fine but keep in mind the more T you administer the shorter the half life. One trial in particular proved saturation of E2 at 600mg weekly of T. In other words if your AI is dialed in at 600mg weekly it is likely you will not need to increase the AI dose even if you increase the test dose but the data is preliminary.

Week 1-6 500mg T weekly
Week 7-8 750mg T and 200mg Deca
Week 9-10 1 gram T and 200mg Deca
Week 11-12 1,250mg T and 200mg Deca
Week 13-14 1,500mg T and 200mg Deca
Week 15-16 1,750mg T and 200mg Deca
Week 17-18 2,250mg T ***
Week 19-20 2,500mg T **
Week 21-22 2,750mg T


*** When dropping a steroid you must account for this in your increase therefore I bumped the T 500mg these weeks.

** Carefully evaluate sides at this level. You may have to drop dose or stop increasing dose at this point. Monitor blood pressure and proceed with caution. Do not be afraid to stop at this level. Keep records of all effects like a steroid diary so you know what to expect next time.

Depending on your goals you may immediately begin a cruise of 300mg weekly after the course. If you have a show you will likely need to drop the testosterone but you may run anabolics like tren, winny or anavar during this time. After the show I would run a cruise dose of T so you don't crash right away.

~heavyiron

Another course I designed for a member who wanted to use specific compounds at a 12 week duration.

I really like the Test, Deca, D-bol combo you were thinking of doing. It is an effective old school bulking stack that just plain works. You are a good candidate for this type of cycle. You have plenty of experience and seem to tolerate various aas pretty well.

*This cycle is for experienced users*

Week 1-6 500mg T / 200mg Deca
Week 7 750mg T / 400mg Deca
Week 8 1 gram T / 400mg Deca
Week 9 1,250mg T / 600mg Deca / 40mg D-bol daily
Week 10 1,500mg T / 600mg Deca / 40mg D-bol daily
Week 11 1,750mg T / 600mg Deca / 40mg D-bol daily
Week 12 2,250mg T / 50mg D-bol daily ***
Week 13 50mg D-bol daily
Week 14 50mg D-bol daily

*** When dropping a steroid you must account for this in your increase therefore I bumped the T 500mg this week and the D-bol 10mg daily.


Since Nandrolone has a long ester I like to drop it before dropping the Testosterone. Nandrolone tends to make recovery more difficult so running it up to the end is not advised.

The D-bol is added at week 9 just about the time gains begin to diminish in a standard cycle. This timing is critical to "push" gains so do not alter the timing. Notice the D-bol extends 2 weeks past the high dose of Testosterone. This is purposeful to keep gains rolling while the high dose T is clearing. Basically gains should continue through week 14 with this setup.

You may immediately enter a cruise of 250mg weekly of Testosterone after this course or go into PCT. If you choose to cruise begin the 250mg of T at week 13.

I would use adex in the manner you describe in your post and any other ancillaries you need.

Nutrition is critical at these higher doses so make sure you are getting plenty of clean food. With nutrition, training and recovery dialed in you will do very well on this course.

with the first cycle is that a longer ester testosterone?

I know everyone is diff but what sort of gains could someone see compared to that of someone using a straight 600mg a week?

Very interesting read.

Thanks heavy! !!

Great info.

awsome read!! I am actually contemplating alot about what you talked about!!

Good shit!

great info

Informative and thanks...but now I wonder how many member are going to try the same exact cycle. Please be SMART and like heavy said...it is for EXPERIENCED users!

Originally Posted by Conrad415

Informative and thanks...but now I wonder how many member are going to try the same exact cycle. Please be SMART and like heavy said...it is for EXPERIENCED users!

Yes, but the first course is fine for a newbie.

Would like to know after ramping up on test to 2g a week,did the users tapered down on test at the end of the cycle???

Very interesting stuff....may switch things up a little bit next run. Interesting write up bro.


/V

Very interesting and alot of food for thought. Well done again mate.

So I should raise my dose after 7 weeks? so if i'm doing 500mgs of Test for 7 weeks, i should raise my dose to 625mg?

Originally Posted by Dark Saney

So I should raise my dose after 7 weeks? so if i'm doing 500mgs of Test for 7 weeks, i should raise my dose to 625mg?

That is definately an option I would consider.

A member who has run 4 previous cycles asked me to put together a cycle with Test E, Tren Ace and D-bol. He wants to keep the Test dosage reasonable and frankly with this combo it will be fine and very effective to do so. The following cycle is one of my favorites. Testosterone, Trenbolone and Dianabol are powerful steroids when taken by themselves but when combined they are amazingly powerful.

*This cycle is for experienced users*

Week 1-6 500mg Test E
Week 7 750mg TE
Week 8 1 gram TE
Week 9 1 gram TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 10 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 11 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 12 1,500mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 13 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily

The D-bol and Tren Ace (100mg eod) is added at week 9 just about the time gains begin to diminish in a standard cycle. This timing is critical to "push" gains so do not alter the timing. Notice the D-bol and Tren extends 1 week past the higher dose of Testosterone. This is purposeful to keep gains rolling while the higher dose T Enanthate is clearing. Basically gains should continue through week 13 with this setup.

You may immediately enter a cruise of 250mg weekly of Testosterone after this course or go into PCT. If you choose to cruise begin the 250mg of T at week 13.

I would use Aromasin in the manner you describe in your PM (12.5mg daily) and any other ancillaries you need.

Nutrition is critical at these higher doses so make sure you are getting plenty of clean food. With nutrition, training and recovery dialed in you will do very well on this course.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Week 1-6 500mg Test E
Week 7 750mg TE
Week 8 1 gram TE
Week 9 1 gram TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 10 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 11 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 12 1,500mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 13 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily

Why the Tren with no T on week 13?

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Why the Tren with no T on week 13?

Read the whole post brother. I explain why.

Ha ha... Sometimes you may need to just ignore my stupid questions.

hey heavy, got a couple friends who is going to go on a first cycle one is using just testosterone E, the other tesosterone e and deca, how would the test and deca one pyramid?

also what is there much of a diff in mass gained with this type of cycle?

great thread

Originally Posted by heavyiron

*This cycle is for experienced users*

Week 1-6 500mg Test E
Week 7 750mg TE
Week 8 1 gram TE
Week 9 1 gram TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 10 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 11 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 12 1,500mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 13 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily


You may immediately enter a cruise of 250mg weekly of Testosterone after this course or go into PCT. If you choose to cruise begin the 250mg of T at week 13.

Thx for this thread Heavy!! I was just confused bout the end of cycle, wouldn't you need week 14 for test esters to clear instead of going right into your PCT.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

The human body is always fighting for homeostasis so the concept is to increase dose before gains plateau. Based on the 2009 myostatin study we can design a cycle that is effective for 10 weeks using this strategy. The following first cycle is for men that want a little more performance with added risk while only using Testosterone. The first 5 weeks a standard dose is administered to evaluate how your body responds and to determine if sides are manageable. If sides are manageable then increase the dose.

Week 1-5 600mg Testosterone weekly
Week 6-8 800mg Testosterone weekly
Week 9-10 1 gram Testosterone weekly

10 mg Aromasin daily with the goal of keeping Estradiol between 10pg/ml-25pg/ml. Only blood work can confirm if you are in this range.

500iu HCG twice weekly.

Originally Posted by Mr.BTB

hey heavy, got a couple friends who is going to go on a first cycle one is using just testosterone E, the other tesosterone e and deca, how would the test and deca one pyramid?

also what is there much of a diff in mass gained with this type of cycle?

My first post is about as aggressive as a first cycle I am willing to recommend.

Originally Posted by cbohning

Thx for this thread Heavy!! I was just confused bout the end of cycle, wouldn't you need week 14 for test esters to clear instead of going right into your PCT.

TE reaches baseline in about 10 days.

Great post!

Originally Posted by heavyiron

A member who has run 4 previous cycles asked me to put together a cycle with Test E, Tren Ace and D-bol. He wants to keep the Test dosage reasonable and frankly with this combo it will be fine and very effective to do so. The following cycle is one of my favorites. Testosterone, Trenbolone and Dianabol are powerful steroids when taken by themselves but when combined they are amazingly powerful.

*This cycle is for experienced users*

Week 1-6 500mg Test E
Week 7 750mg TE
Week 8 1 gram TE
Week 9 1 gram TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 10 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 25mg D-bol daily
Week 11 1,250mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 12 1,500mg TE / 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily
Week 13 350mg Tren Ace / 50mg D-bol daily

The D-bol and Tren Ace (100mg eod) is added at week 9 just about the time gains begin to diminish in a standard cycle. This timing is critical to "push" gains so do not alter the timing. Notice the D-bol and Tren extends 1 week past the higher dose of Testosterone. This is purposeful to keep gains rolling while the higher dose T Enanthate is clearing. Basically gains should continue through week 13 with this setup.

You may immediately enter a cruise of 250mg weekly of Testosterone after this course or go into PCT. If you choose to cruise begin the 250mg of T at week 13.

I would use Aromasin in the manner you describe in your PM (12.5mg daily) and any other ancillaries you need.

Nutrition is critical at these higher doses so make sure you are getting plenty of clean food. With nutrition, training and recovery dialed in you will do very well on this course.

I notice you never go above 350mg of Tren Ace for this cycle, and you don't pyramid the Tren up. Is there any cases in which you would? Maybe for example when running a Test E and Tren E stack with a Dbol kicker ?

Originally Posted by chronicelite

I notice you never go above 350mg of Tren Ace for this cycle, and you don't pyramid the Tren up. Is there any cases in which you would? Maybe for example when running a Test E and Tren E stack with a Dbol kicker ?

Tren is a different animal. More is not always better because so many guys get sides. With testosterone sides are usually manageable at higher doses. If you can't grow with the previous listed doses something is very wrong with your nutrition and/or training. Now if you can tolerate tren well, then I see no problem raising the dose.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Tren is a different animal. More is not always better because so many guys get sides. With testosterone sides are usually manageable at higher doses. If you can't grow with the previous listed doses something is very wrong with your nutrition and/or training. Now if you can tolerate tren well, then I see no problem raising the dose.

Yeah, last time I did 350mg EW of Acetate and felt amazing. No noticeable sides. Got big, and lean, as per my avatar. So I am thinking next cycle of trying Tren Enanthate at 600mg since based on free equivalent it works out to about 432mg of actual Tren with enanthate. Since 350mg of Acetate would equal 302mg of free Tren.



Correct me if I am wrong ?