Thread: Test E Sides

Wait, you did ONLY two shots and stopped a second week later or you continued use for 3-5 weeks and THEN just stopped?
You didnt plan correctly. You didnt research. Good job.

How old are you? What's your stats, cycling experience, training regimen, etc.?

Apparently you shut your test down, try this tribulus terrestis,Maca Root, few grams of L arginine a day and stay away from Soy products that means soy protein it has been shown in studies to drop test serum levels significantly I believe it was an average of 21% drop for test subjects who consumed moderate levels of soy daily for a two month period. Guess thats why they feed the incarcerated soy based, keep their test low so they dont fight and wack off all over the place.LOL

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Wait, you did ONLY two shots and stopped a second week later or you continued use for 3-5 weeks and THEN just stopped?
You didnt plan correctly. You didnt research. Good job.

well he did say it was unforseen travel. i guess he had to leave in a hurry and forgot to grab his stash of AI's and SERM's

Maybe he's just getting to that age where test levels drop anyways? I can tell you for sure that my test levels aren't as high as they were when I was 25 and I'm 30 now.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

Maybe he's just getting to that age where test levels drop anyways? I can tell you for sure that my test levels aren't as high as they were when I was 25 and I'm 30 now.

True that!

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastico

well he did say it was unforseen travel. i guess he had to leave in a hurry and forgot to grab his stash of AI's and SERM's

Bullshit. You plan for ANY contingencies when using AAS. If you dont its downright careless. Unexpected or not.

Well, we don't know the circumstances. Sometimes "shit happens." I think he took one shot a week for weeks 1 & 2 and then nothing for weeks 3 thru 5. By the time he returned his body was all fucked up, etc. That's what I got out of his post. His balls took a break as they got 250mg of test E for 2 weeks and they'll take a little while to jumpstart themselves again especially w/out any pct. He also stated he "did not think two shots would effect his natural levels that much."

I would think it should only take a single shot to effect natural test levels, no? What's the average natural male test production daily, anywhere between 2 and 11mg ED?

Yeh hey come on. I pinned only week one and two. If work decides to send me overseas for 3 weeks its not like I can just walk around with AAS in my bag....you cant plan for everything....bar quitting my job what could I do?

Anyway I do have some research chems from RUI, liquid clomi, and an AI. Would it be worth doing a small dosage of liquid clomi for say two to three weeks? Or should it come back in time?

Cheers

It def shut you down. It takes 2 weeks for the ester to clear. Shot wk1 shot wk2 still in wk 3 and 4 week 5 cleared with no PCT. Im not the expert but I think some clomid would help with a natty t booster. I dont think its too late for that.

you're shutdown
get a damn PCT before you start a cycle

Yeh I now understand that its shutdown. I made a mistake now how do I get around it. I had PCT inplace with liqui clomid but being stupid did not consider it necessary after only two shots.....my mistake and I accept that.

So what now? Constructive help would be appreciated

Why not just go back on?
You're already shut down and it's only been a few weeks.
Just curious myself as to why you'd have to get the boys back up working again so soon?

250 a week is trt levels which isn't going to do much but shut you down. Check heavyirons first cycle advise for dosing recommendations.

Too Old, the original plan was to run 500mg / week for 12 weeks, running an AI during and then Clomid as pct (yeh I would like HGC but unfortunately cant find any). So I do plan on doing this but not until im satisfied I can get back to normal after.

This shutdown has got me worried. So before I start the cycle proper I would like to get this sorted.

I stuffed up I know, but now should I run a normal clomid style PCT?

Or

Being a 'low' dosage (only a total of 500mg 5 weeks ago) just let my body recover naturally?

Thanks for the help so far

I'd do a restart then with normal PCT protocal if you are concerned about coming back.
Why wait to come back naturally? I'd want to speed it up as quickly as possible.

Thanks too old. If I were to run some clomid to restart my nuts should I use a full dose as if I were coming off a 12 week 500mg/week cycle or could I safely use a reduced amount for a shorter period?

The liquid clomid I have is dosed at 35mg / ml. So how would 1 ml everyday for two weeks then taper to half a ml for another week?

OR start my 12 week cycle proper in another two weeks looking something like this??

1-12 weeks Test E, 500mgs
14-18 weeks Liquid clomid ??/??/??/??
1-18 weeks Liquid Stane 12.5mg eod ( half a ml )

How does that sound? Also will renew my quest to find the elusive HCG.

Originally Posted by anabolix250

1-12 weeks Test E, 500mgs
14-18 weeks Liquid clomid ??/??/??/??
1-18 weeks Liquid Stane 12.5mg eod ( half a ml )

I'd opt for this. You might want to also combine nolva with your pct, and dont forget a side support while on cycle; arimidex at half a tab OED works beautifully.
Question: why use research chems when you can get the clomid at genxxlgear or napsgear? I'm not pimping them, but was curious.
If ball shrinkage is a concern, use HCG.

Thanks Juggernaut. The reason I went with research chems is because im in Aus and worried the legit tabs would get taken at customs but I am thinking of giving it a shot with some clomid nolva and and AI.

What PCT regimen after 12 weeks of test E at 500mg/week would you recommend?

I was going to go with something like 100/100/50/50 of clomid everday for four weeks.

You suggest adding nolva? Why so and how would i then split the dosing?

I think I may be able to get some HCG so will plan to run this during the 12 week cycle at 500 iu / week split into two 250iu doses. Would that be sufficient to keep the boys going?

thanks juggernaut for your help.

Originally Posted by anabolix250

I think I may be able to get some HCG so will plan to run this during the 12 week cycle at 500 iu / week split into two 250iu doses. Would that be sufficient to keep the boys going?

I've heard of guys running 500iu as well as 1000iu every week, split into two doses, so my guess would be that HCG dosing is dependent on the amount of test you are running, but that's bro-science. Can anyone clarify?

If you reed heavyirons post, he calls for 1000iu (500iu twice a week) based on the amount of test he suggests for a first cycle. The dosage is then increased 1.5x for PCT if I remember right so make sure you get enough.

Originally Posted by anabolix250

Thanks Juggernaut. The reason I went with research chems is because im in Aus and worried the legit tabs would get taken at customs but I am thinking of giving it a shot with some clomid nolva and and AI.

What PCT regimen after 12 weeks of test E at 500mg/week would you recommend?

I was going to go with something like 100/100/50/50 of clomid everday for four weeks.

You suggest adding nolva? Why so and how would i then split the dosing?

I think I may be able to get some HCG so will plan to run this during the 12 week cycle at 500 iu / week split into two 250iu doses. Would that be sufficient to keep the boys going?

thanks juggernaut for your help.

Got this from another site and doc'd it on google. It explains a lot:


Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG in Post Cycle Recovery


One of the most frequently asked questions on MuscleTalk is how to use properly use the post cycle therapy (PCT) drugs Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG correctly.
(A note to Americans - when I say 'oestrogen' I mean 'estrogen' - we spell it correctly in the UK!)
Why Bodybuilders Use Clomid
Clomid is a generic name for Clomiphene Citrate and is a synthetic estrogen. It is prescribed medically to aid ovulation in low fertility females. Another generic name is Serophene.
Most anabolic steroids, especially the androgens, cause inhibition of the body's own testosterone production. When a bodybuilder comes off a steroid cycle, natural testosterone production is zero and the levels of the steroids taken in the blood are diminishing. This leaves the ratios of catabolic : anabolic hormones in the blood high, hence the body is in a state of catabolism, and, as a result, much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost.
Clomid stimulates the hypothalamus to, in turn stimulant the anterior pituitary gland (aka hypophysis) to release gonadotrophic hormones. The gonadotrophic hormones are follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH - aka interstitial cell stimulating hormone (ICSH)). FSH stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone, and LH stimulates them to secrete more testosterone. This feedback mechanism is known as the hypothalamic-pituitary-testes axis (HPTA), and results in an increase of the body's own testosterone production and blood levels rise, to, in part, compensate for the diminishing levels of exogenous steroids. This is vital to minimize post cycle muscle losses.
Not all steroids do cause shut down of the feedback mechanism. Everyone is different and you must also take into account how long you have been using a certain steroid and at what dose in order to determine if you need Clomid or not.
Clomid also works as an anti-oestrogen. As it's a weak synthetic oestrogen, it binds to oestrogen receptors on cells blocking them to oestrogen in the blood. This minimises the negative effects like gynecomastia and water retention that may be a result of oestrogen that has aromatised from testosterone.
It's effect as an anti-oestrogen are quite weak though, and it should not be relied upon if you are going to be using androgenic steroids that aromatise at a rapid rate, or if you are pre-disposed to gynecomastia. Arimidex and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) are far more effective anti-oestrogens.
Important note: Clomid does not, as is often thought, stimulate the release of natural testosterone, but rather works at reducing the oestrogenic inhibition caused by the steroid cycle. It does this in a similar manner to the way it and Nolvadex block oestrogen receptors in nipples to combat gyno development, i.e. by blocking the oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary thus reducing the inhibition from the elevated oestrogen. This allows LH levels to return to normal, or even above normal levels, and in turn, natural testosterone levels to also normalise.
Inhibition of the HPTA is caused by either elevated androgen, oestrogen or progesterone levels. On cessation of the steroid cycle, androgen levels begin to fall and Clomid dosing is normally commenced according to the half-life of the longest acting drug in the system (see below).
This may also explain the reason individuals often find post-deca recovery more difficult, as the progesterone presence is untouched by the Clomid. We know that Clomid and Nolvadex (being very similar chemically) are both ineffective with regard to reducing progesterone related gyno, so it is reasonable to assume that Clomid has little effect against progesterone levels.
Clomid During A Cycle
When we use anabolic steroids, the level of androgens in the body rises causing the androgen receptors to become more highly activated, and through the HPTA, a signal tells our testes to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has far higher than normal levels of androgens and, as long as this level is high enough, Clomid will not help to keep natural testosterone production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off, in theory.
Some heavy androgen users, however, do advocate a small burst of Clomid mid-cycle, though it must be hard for them to say if it really of any benefit, due to the amount of gear they are using. Therefore, the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.
When To Start Clomid
The correct time to commence Clomid depends on the type and cycle of steroids you have been using. Different steroids have different half-lifes (indicates the time a substance diminishes in blood), and Clomid administration should be taken accordingly.
As we have seen above, Clomid taken when androgen levels in our blood are still high will be a waste. It is crucial to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our Clomid therapy. However, if taken too late we could possibly lose gains.
The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time.
Steroid Time after
last administration Length of
Clomid Cycle
Anadrol50/Anapolan50: 8 - 12 hours 3 weeks
Deca durabolan: 3 weeks 4 weeks
Dianabol: 4 - 8 hours 3 weeks
Equipoise: 17 - 21 days 3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone: 3 days 3 weeks
Primabolan depot: 10 - 14 days 2 weeks
Sustanon: 3 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Cypionate: 2 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron: 2 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Propionate: 3 days 3 weeks
Testosterone Suspension: 4 - 8 hours 2-3 weeks
Winstrol 8 - 12 hours 2-3 weeks
How To Take Clomid
Clomid has a long half-life (possibly 5 days), so there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. If Sustanon has been used and Clomid is commenced 3 weeks after the last injection, I would estimate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high, we need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help, even if androgen levels are still a little high. Try 300mg on day 1; then use 100mg for the next 10 days; followed by 50mg for 10 days.

How to take Nolvadex for PCT
As an alternative to Clomid, which has been reported to have led to unwanted side effects such as visual disturbances in some users, Nolvadex can be employed. Nolvadex is a trade name for the drug Tamoxifen. Like Clomid, the half life of Nolvadex is relatively long enabling the user to implement a single daily dosing schedule. Administration would start as per the timescales outlined above and the duration would be identical to that of Clomid.
Typically, for a moderate-heavy cycle, the following dosages would be used:
Day 1 - 100mg
Following 10 days - 60mg
Following 10 days - 40mg
Occasionally, heavier cycles containing perhaps Nandrolone (Deca) or Trenbolone which by definition are particularly suppressive of the HPTA, may require a slightly longer therapy. Likewise, more modest/shorter cycles may require lower dosages, perhaps dropping each by 20mg per day.
Some users like to use both Clomid and Nolvadex in their PCT in an attempt to cover all angles. An example of the dosages involved might be:
Day 1 - Clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg
Of course, the examples provided are not set in stone and may be adjusted depending on the factors outlined above and individual variances.

Using HCG
It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).
Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.
HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.
The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.
From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:
1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.
Doses of HCG
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500IU and 1000IU per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.
It is important for the HCG administration to have been completed with 6 or 7 clear days before the onset of PCT in order to avoid inhibition of the Nolvadex and/or Clomid therapy. Also, a small daily dose (10-20mg) of Nolvadex would normally be used in conjunction with HCG in order to prevent oestrogenic symptoms caused by sudden increases in aromatisation.
Presentation and Administration of HCG
Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu (not ideal for the above doses!). Administration of the compound is either by intra-muscular or subcutaneous injection. It comes as a powder which needs to be mixed with the sterile water. The powder is temperature-sensitive prior to mixing and should not be exposed to direct heat. After mixing, it should be kept refrigerated and used within a few weeks - though there are sterility issues which need to be considered after mixing.
Summary and Presentation of Clomid and HCG
Clomid and/or Nolvadex are more effective than HCG post cycle, but some long-term users like to use HCG during a cycle, or to prepare the testes for Clomid and/or Nolvadex therapy.
Clomid is available in 50mg tablets most commonly, but also comes in 25mg capsule, often in boxes of 24 tablets. Tamoxifen is made by a number of manufacturers and comes in 10mg or 20mg tablets, most commonly 30 x 20mg tablets. HCG generally comes in kits of three ampoules of powder needing to be mixed with the provided injectable water as 1500IU, 2500IU or 5000IU per ampoule kits.

I prefer to run HCG during my cycle, not for PCT. The article doesn't explain why nolva is frowned upon these days and how it lowers GH and IGF levels. Pregnyl should also always be stored in the fridge, mixed or not (it says so on the box). Every time I get mine from the pharmacy, thay hand it to me chilled with a disposable ice pack. And tren/deca/nolva don't get along together. Lastly, I don't think nolva and clomid are at all similar. Some old school thoughts in there, but a good article none the less. Thanks for sharing.


/V