Thread: Frontloading and why it's done

My own pharmacokinetic modeling suggests a pinning frequency of no less than twice per halflife.

Assuming enanthate has a halflife of seven days (I can assume anything; it varies due to a number of factors), a dose of 500mg pinned as 250mg twice a week and a high-normal baseline androgen status.

No frontload: 3 weeks to steady-state
600mg frontload: < 1 week

Rule of thumb: whatever your ester and dose, pin twice per halflife. Frontload with double this dose.

Thanks for the read V.
And extra input by Built.

Question
When i comes to Test flu most people get test flu on week 3-5. [Long Esters]
According to that chart thats when blood levels start to stabilize.

Assuming that Test flu happens when blood level stabilize.
Frontloading will may cause Test Flu the first week ?

Only bring up this point as i read a few threads where guys where frontloading on Long Esters and where experiencing Test flu from week 1-3,
Some cases right throw there cycle.

I personally think there where other things that caused it.
Anyone heard anything like this ?

Good info guys Thanks.

Frontload'n is truly old school and I love it. All this Dbol kickstart to every cycle is new age and has become gospel since come'n outta the first parrots mouth. I remember the old joke theres 3 ways to start a cycle
1.a Frontload
2 a Truckload
3. a Shitload
or as an old friend says " the magic began with a gram"
lolol Great post Vic.

Peace and Love

Always been a fan of the frontload

Originally Posted by Supermans Daddy

Frontload'n is truly old school and I love it. All this Dbol kickstart to every cycle is new age and has become gospel since come'n outta the first parrots mouth. I remember the old joke theres 3 ways to start a cycle
1.a Frontload
2 a Truckload
3. a Shitload
or as an old friend says " the magic began with a gram"
lolol Great post Vic.

Peace and Love

Funny

Great information and now in my google docs. Excellent thread.

Always appreciate good info from experienced vets and gurus. It helps us all get the most out of our cycles and make better informed decisions.

I have tried frontloading numerous times with very little added effect. Muscle just plain takes time to grow so I am not sure much happens in the first few weeks of a cycle other than increased water retention and glycogen storage. I would say overall frontloading brought on strength gains about 1 week earlier when I tried it so instead of the profound gains I would normally see on week 5 I might see them around week 4 with enanthate or cypionate. This seems like a waste of gear especially since gains are going to happen anyway but whatever works for guys is fine by me.

What is an example of a frontload for cyp

That depends on the desired dose. If I was doing a gram per week of Cyp I would do something like this;

day 1-1 gram
day 2-500mg
every 3 days after that 500mg per inject.

btw, the guy who wrote the original post is a friend of mine. His screen name is Warrior. Very bright guy.

http://www.warriorfx.com/2007/07/fro...teroid-cycles/

Originally Posted by heavyiron

I have tried frontloading numerous times with very little added effect. Muscle just plain takes time to grow so I am not sure much happens in the first few weeks of a cycle other than increased water retention and glycogen storage. I would say overall frontloading brought on strength gains about 1 week earlier when I tried it so instead of the profound gains I would normally see on week 5 I might see them around week 4 with enanthate or cypionate. This seems like a waste of gear especially since gains are going to happen anyway but whatever works for guys is fine by me.

So basically, pinning with more in the front of the cycle is merely water gain and glycogen?

Originally Posted by juggernaut

So basically, pinning with more in the front of the cycle is merely water gain and glycogen?

Check out the graph...


/V

not a fan of front loading especially for enanthate since it takes so long to kicki n anyway.

i say just do an oral kicker until the E kicks in.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

So basically, pinning with more in the front of the cycle is merely water gain and glycogen?

Well frontloading does get blood androgen levels up faster and makes them more stable right away as well. The question is, how does that higher blood androgen level translate into actual muscle gain?

I will add another article.. this is a good thread!

Proper Dosing and Frontloading using the Principles of Half-Life’s

By SuperDuty


I’ve decided to write this article in regards to a great post made by Got Gear. He simply stated that at no time during a cycle will your test levels reach above 500mg a week if you’re taking 500mg a week of test enanthate. This is so very true and a lot more detailed than you probably think. This is what we base our dosages on since the onset and peak of most AAS is/are not established. The definition of half-life in regards to biology and pharmacology is simply the time required by the body, tissue, or organ to metabolize or inactivate half the amount of a substance taken in (Taber’s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary). These principles are used for all medications, not just AAS. I’m going to break this down to the simplest form I can so bare with me because it may get a little confusing.

The key thing to remember when it comes to half-life’s is that they will always be reduced by half of what’s remaining on a proportional and timely basis.

I’m going to use Testosterone Cypionate as my example in this demonstration since it is a commonly used AAS for beginners and pros alike.
Testosterone Cypionate half-life is 8 days (Davis’s Drug Guide for Nurses 9th Ed.)

500mg Test Cyp every 8 days
Day 1 – 500mg (remember that the bioavailability at this point is 0 because it takes 8 days to metabolize 250mg, and this will be true for every dose that follows)

Day 9 – 500mg (remember what was stated on day 1), so at this point you have 250mg remaining in the body from day 1 because your body has used 250mg over the past 8 days)

Day 17 – 500mg, at this point you have 250 from Day 9 and 125 from day 1 (don’t confuse yourself here, the body does not process 250mg every 8 days, it simply reduces the remaining by half every 8 days)

Day 25 – 500mg, at this point you have 250mg from Day 17, 125 from Day 9, and now just 62.5 remaining from day 1

Day 33 – 500mg, at this point you have 250mg from Day 25, 125 from Day 17, 62.5 from Day 9, and 31.7 from day 1.

The easy way to keep going on with this formula is to take the smallest number (31.7 in this case) and reduce it by half, then add it to your existing numbers for the total, and then repeat.

The total looks like this:
The first 8 days your body will metabolize 250mg
The second 8 days your body will metabolize half of the remaining 250 (125) and half of the 500 (250) administered on day 9 for a total of 375.
The third 8 days your body will metabolize 250, 125, and 62.5 for a total of 437.5. This is one reason it takes a couple of weeks to start noticing the effects of this drug.
To keep figuring out the bioavailability just keep reducing your smallest number by half and adding it to the total as described earlier.

Here is a chart demonstrating the bioavailability and how long it takes to even reach that 500mg per 8 day mark. For this demonstration we will use 8 days for 1 wk.
Wk 1 – 250mg
Wk 2 – 375mg
Wk 3 – 437.5mg
Wk 4 – 469.2mg
Wk 5 – 485mg
Wk 6 – 492.9mg
Wk 7 – 496.8mg
Wk 8 – 498.7mg
And so on….

So what does all this mean? Well for one it brings up a very important issue of frontloading. To frontload, you simply double your weekly dose just for that first week. It would look like this:
Wk 1 – 1000mg Cyp
Wk 2 – 500mg Cyp
Wk 3 – 500mg Cyp
And continue on at the normal 500mg/wk

The way this works is simple, during week 1 your body will metabolize 500mg of the first dose leaving you with 500 remaining. The second week your body will metabolize 250mg from the first dose and also 250 from the second dose for a total of 500. Now do you see how beneficial frontloading really is? You will stay constant at 500mg/wk throughout your cycle instead of tapering up by not frontloading.

All that has been described in this post is hypothetically based on the principles of half-life’s. Nevertheless, this should give you a general idea of how much your body is using in any one given week. This holds true for every AAS and medication there is, after all that’s what medication administration is based on so don’t argue with me about this, argue with science and the millions of doctors who actually get paid to come up with this stuff.

Also, on a side note, I’ve noticed quite a few boards that vary on half-lifes for certain AAS such as Cyp, most state the half-life as being around 10 days. I’m in no way saying this is wrong but I tend to get and base as much information as possible on medical articles and websites. I have found the half-life of cyp to be 8 days both in a nursing book and also on drug.com. The only catch to this is that some, in fact most AAS are not evaluated, published, or even talked about in the medical field so your on your own on that one.

What about front loading your test e with test p?

What would be the formula for that?

I just ran some quick models: Assuming a high-normal starting point, 600mg test cyp pinned twice a week will take about 6 weeks to stabilize - assuming an 8-day halflife on the cyp and 2 days for the prop (halflife varies depending upon the size of the shot, the oil used, the concentration of the active, the muscle pinned and your own metabolism).

Cyp is about 69% testosterone
Prop is about 79% testosterone (lighter ester than cypionate)

If you just happen to have some prop handy, you can use prop to bring up your levels by pinning it alongside your cyp. This is really approximate, but should do you justice:

Week 1: 200 test cyp, 200 prop Mon, Wed, Sat
Week 2: 200 test cyp, 150 prop Mon, Wed, Sat
Week 3: 200 test cyp, 125 prop Mon, Wed, Sat
Week 4: 200 test cyp, 100 prop Mon, Wed, Sat
Week 5: 200 test cyp, 75 prop Mon, Wed, Sat
Week 6: 200 test cyp, 50 prop Mon, Wed, Sat

By then, you should be good to go at two shots of 300mg test cyp per week.