D-Bol & Test E Feedback, Please

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 12:56 AM

Hey Everyone,

Looking for some feedback on an "off season" cycle to add some strength and weight before the searing Phoenix desert heat makes me drop 10 lbs. If you read my intro in the new members forum (Bulider to Runner), you would know that I'm a competitive runner and have years of athletic experience including 22 years of weight-lifting (Power & Bodybuilding), Football, Track (sprinting), Baseball and now my new passion of running.

My goals are to add some quality strength to help me get me get through the tough "on season" running months where I run routinely run in temparatures of 100+ degress (tons of calorie wasting, weight & strength lose). This ultimatley leads to slower runs (5 and 10K's). OK...Dont' get all wrapped up on the fact that I'm a runner and not a BB, the diet and discipline is very similar - you would be suprised, although my sport and extremes are very different. I plan to peak in the in ealry August and have a general overall plan below. Keep in mind the likes of Olympic sprinters (i.e. my favorite winny user Ben Johnson) LOL!

I'm definately an experienced user of AAS, but have been away from the scene for about 10 years and alot has changed. Greatly appreciate your feedback.

Stats:

* 38 years old - 5'8" 170 pds 13% BF (Think Olympic Sprinter Body Style)

Workout:

* Routine - Day1 (Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Calves, Ab's)
* Routine - Day 2 (Back, Biceps, Calves, Ab's)
* Routine - Day 3 (Legs, Calves, Ab's)
* Routine - Day 4 Off
* Routine - Day 5 Depends how I feel...Off or Start Day 1
* Routine - Run 10-15 miles per week (off season) - average bw 170 lbs
* Routine - Run 15-20 miles per week (peak season) - avarage bw 165 lbs 10% BF

Diet:

My diet hasn't really changed since I was 18, with the exception of total calories. I have always followed a low fat, low sodium, low sugar diet. Depending what I'm trying to accomplish, I will adjust my protein, carb and fat intake. Typically, I follow a diet that consists of the following total calories: 50% Carbs, 40% Protein, 10% Fat. Depending on the time of the year, I will make adjustmets to the various perecentages, but my overall caloric intake now is about 2500 to 3000 calories a day.

Off Season Gear (Feb thru March):

* Dianabol - 30mgs ED Wks 1-4
* Liver Supp - Wks 1-4
* Test E - 250mgs 1xwk Wks 5-8
* Nolvadex (Gyno) - 20mgs ED Wks 1-3
* Nolvadex (Gyno) - 40mgs ED Wks 4-8
* Clomid (PCT) - 100/ 50/ 50/ 25

Peak Season (June thru July):

* Anavar - 50mgs ED Wks 1-4
* Primobolan E - 400mg Wkly Wks 5-8
* Nolvadex - On Stand By for Gyno
* Clomid (PCT) - 100/ 50/ 50/ 25

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Kind regards,

Runner22

**TwisT** · 12-27-2010, 01:01 AM

Not sure about your goals, are you looking to build muscle? As a runner, you're looking at a serious calorie intake if that's what you're looking for. Also, you're basically running a TRT test dose, can you explain why? Are you on full time TRT? Do you not run test "Peak season"? Your gear use is a bit jumbled up. Are you thinking that peak season your clomid will bump your test levels higher then injections will? I'm a bit confused here. Please don't tell me you're running 400mg primo a week with no test...

-T

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 01:23 AM

Not sure about your goals, are you looking to build muscle? As a runner, you're looking at a serious calorie intake if that's what you're looking for. Also, you're basically running a TRT test dose, can you explain why? Are you on full time TRT? Do you not run test "Peak season"? Your gear use is a bit jumbled up. Are you thinking that peak season your clomid will bump your test levels higher then injections will? I'm a bit confused here. Please don't tell me you're running 400mg primo a week with no test...

Hi T,

My goals are fairly simple. Add 5-10 pounds of lean muscle mass in the "off season" to combat all the wasting I experiance during my the "peak season". The wasting is due to extreme temparatures and by the end of the season (September), I typically lose alot of weight and overall strength which kills my racing times. My thought is add additional muscle in the off season and hopefully, keep some of it through the peak season while on my 2nd cycle.

TRT? Not sure what that means. Please kindly explain...

For both cycles, I'm planning to use clomid for PCT only. I will start the clomid for the first cycle 1 wk after my last Test E injection (due to low Test E dosage - would normally wait 2 weeks if 500 mgs per wk of Test E). For the 2nd cycle, Clomid will start for PCT 2 weeks after last injection.

What are your concerns about not using Test during my 2nd cycle? Do you think I need to add this here? Totally open for suggestions!

Thanks Kindly!

**TwisT** · 12-27-2010, 01:34 AM

You have AAS use all wrong. TRT is testosterone replacement theropy, because your only running 250mg/week which is normal TRT dose. A minimal test cycle is at about 500mg/week. Your shutting down your natural test for no reason. And then you're using primo and var without a base test dose, which is again not a good choice. I suggest you stay off gear a while until you sort out a normal cycle + pct, and learn how AAS like primo and var suppress your bodies test production, and the reason why you need to be taking test while on these compounds.

-T

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 01:57 AM

Tnanks for the feedback. I tried to educate myself by reading all the various forums, boards, stickies and drew upon my own personal experiences. Obviously, alot has changed since the days of Dan Duchaine's bible, which I read daily. AAS is much more complex these days or so it seems. That being said, I would still appreciate any thoughts on making some adjustments. I'm fairly set on moving forward to enahnce my success and open to suggestions.

Thanks!

Runner22

**cutright** · 12-27-2010, 05:30 AM

Test E 500mg per week 10 weeks
Dbol first 4 weeks is fine.....
Lose the nolvadex just keep it for emergency...
get urself an AI...Arimidex .5 Eod to start this will help prevent sides...its better to prevent then to treat..IMO. This is pretty basic....Read heavyirons sticky on first cycle and pct. Its a great read...it will give you a much better picture of the actual science behind the scenes. Good luck to you!

**ROID** · 12-27-2010, 07:22 AM

the only advice you need right now is to read more. If you will take the time to just read one hour a day for 2 weeks you will be able to look back over this post and see how many flaws you have in your thinking right now.

**GMO** · 12-27-2010, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by ROID

the only advice you need right now is to read more. If you will take the time to just read one hour a day for 2 weeks you will be able to look back over this post and see how many flaws you have in your thinking right now.

Yes. More research on your part is definitely necessary. AAS use is not something you want to fly into blind. You must be properly informed or you will regret it down the road.

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 08:25 AM

Thanks to everyone for your kind feedback. I have also concluded that I need to do more research before considering this path. Cheers!

**TwisT** · 12-27-2010, 11:37 AM

A good place to start would be our up coming Elite Anabolic section!!

Where you will be able to fulfill all of your research needs

-T

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 04:00 PM

I was thinking the same thing. I'll be upgrading to an Elite member and will be checking back regularly for the announcement that the forum is ready.

Cheers!

**cutright** · 12-27-2010, 04:08 PM

^^^^Good choice^^^

**rippedgolfer** · 12-27-2010, 05:19 PM

Just curious why you aren't running the test in weeks 1-4 in the first cycle? Actually sar thing on second cycle too but you start the primo in week 5. Any reason for this?

**Runner22** · 12-27-2010, 07:33 PM

Turns out I have a lot to learn before starting and have decided to take everyone's advice and do more research. Once I get a better understanding I'll update this post with my new plan. Needless to say, I will now be using TEST E for all 10 weeks. Stay tuned!

**Right On** · 12-27-2010, 07:46 PM

Way to go everyone going in right direction imo. I have heard that 2 or 3 pounds of true musscle is what you can gain and hold on to in a year? What do ya think.

**Work IN Progress** · 12-27-2010, 07:59 PM

you need some good blood doping agents instead of Test.

**Runner22** · 12-28-2010, 09:58 AM

OK Guy's...I spent many hours last night studying AAS profiles, AI's and PCT's from various sources and now have a few more questions. Before I get to the questions, it's important to advise that I've had minor issues with gyno in the past and it remains a key concern for me while on a cycle. Also, I realize that the AAS’s I have chosen come along with water retention as side, but I would like to keep it to a minimum. As I stated in my opening post, my diet is very clean and with the running, it shouldn’t be an issue. On to the questions...

1. Is it true that using Nolvadex to combat gyno during your cycle will reduce the effectiveness of Arimidex? If so, would it be better use Aromasin?

2. If using Aromasin as my AI and Nolva when needed to combat gyno, would it be logical to continue using both compounds for PCT, but at increased dosages or should I drop the Nolva during PCT and add Clomid? I understand they are both SERMs and it seems the vote is split as to the most preferred for PCT. Also, from what I've read it seems to be wise to keep the AI going all through PCT. Correct?

Based upon your feedback I'll make the necessary adjustments, but the below is what I'm planning.

* Weeks 1-4:
- Dbol 30mgs ED (split Morning & Evening)
- Test E 500mg WK (Split Mon & Thurs)
- Aromasin 12.5mg ED
- Nolva (if needed)
- Liver Supplement

* Weeks 1-8:

- Test E 500mg WK (Split Mon & Thurs)
- Aromasin 12.5mg ED
- Nolva (if needed)

* Weeks 9-10

- Aromasin 25mg ED

* PCT

- Aromasin (wk 10-12) 12.5mg ED
- Nolvadex (wk 10) 40mg ED
- Nolvadex (wk 11) 20mg ED
- Nolvadex (wk 12) 10mg ED

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