Question on Testosterone Proprionate

david · 10-14-2002, 10:45 AM

Someone I know has this and I'm not familiar with it.

1) How much doses can one take per week?
2) How much is too much before it becomes a waste?
3) Can it be used to stand alone? Is it effective still?

cornfed · 10-14-2002, 11:00 AM

1 & 2) I say 100-150/EOD for 10-12wk (peaks on 3rd day after 'ject, short .5life)

3) yes, but I wouldn't.

Ex: stacks
1)_ Prop @ 100mg EOD wk1-12
___EQ @ 400mg/wk 1-10
___Fina @ 37.5 or 75 ED 1-5
___Winny @ 50mg/ED 6-12

2) Prop @ 100mg EOD 1-12
__Susp @ 100mg pre training
__EQ or Deca

david · 10-14-2002, 11:13 AM

thnx cornfed! This vial here is written in Chinese!

cornfed · 10-15-2002, 02:05 PM

IP?

(I say short ester tests in any cycle... no bloat, no need for dbol, better pumps, more injections... what more could you ask for?)

**Mudge** · 10-15-2002, 04:37 PM

How about, less injections, and easier on the body? Cypionate

Heavy_Hat · 10-15-2002, 07:16 PM

I would say
wks 1-10 test/prop 100mg ed (eod for newbies)
wks 1-10 fina 75mg ed (eod for newbies)
1000 mg ALA ed
500mg cranberry extract ed
and an excellent diet would be good. I love short esters...

**Mudge** · 10-15-2002, 10:25 PM

Fina for 10 weeks, sounds... fun, might work for some, might make others bitchy, as for fina dick I dont know how common it is.

Mifody · 10-16-2002, 04:41 AM

the test would probably eliminate the fina dick

cornfed · 10-16-2002, 08:18 AM

True, test would eliminate the anti-libido affect, but tren for 10

Why not Fina/winny 6wk each or instead of winny, halo for a coupla' wks

Mif, prop is pretty easy on the system, but yeah cyp is gr8. Cyp for 10, susp pretraining, prop for the 1st 4wks instead of dbol and a good anabolic... ahh...

**Mudge** · 10-16-2002, 04:59 PM

My understanding is that prop is harder on the system due to its quick releasing nature..?

crackerjack414 · 10-16-2002, 06:19 PM

just a faster release not realy all in all that bad.

**Mudge** · 10-16-2002, 06:36 PM

One person says one thing, another says the opposite, always wonderfully confusing.

BUSTINOUT · 10-17-2002, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
My understanding is that prop is harder on the system due to its quick releasing nature..?

Not true. Steady consistant test levels are easier on the body than the up and down shit you get from blends like sust.

Now suspension can aromatise easily in some since there is no ester.

**Mudge** · 10-17-2002, 01:34 AM

Thats part of my point, much easier to controll levels with something longer acting, Prop is a yo yo game.

I have an argument going on several boards about injection frequency, almost EVERYONE believes in more frequent injections as being 'better', however on Bodybuilders.com there are a few holdouts who say this is not true, that is THEE only board where I have found opposition to what everyone else believes, I actually stopped going there awhile back because the board itself is a little backwoods and just too many idiots on the site, I am still trying to grasp how this guy came by his ideas.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...&goto=lastpost

Belial · 10-17-2002, 07:45 AM

Esterification does not in any way affect aromatization. It simply controls how much steroid is present in the bloodstream over the x days after injection. Yeah, drastic ups and downs will cause excessive estrogen levels, but so will hugely elevated test levels (like you'll see in week 10 of a sust cycle, when levels are sky high)

More frequent, smaller injections ARE better as well. The way I'd do prop is actually 50-100mg ED, not EOD... the half life isn't THAT short... if you inject it every day the levels are pretty damn stable, certainly more so than doing cyp or enan once a week...

**Mudge** · 10-17-2002, 09:23 AM

I imagine you meant me, but I didn't mention aromitization at all and was not on my mind.

As for cyp my idea was E4D or E5D, or even E3D injections, for stuff thats 400mg/ml though it would be harder to go that route for a newbie, unless they used a slin pin with a standard needle.

BUSTINOUT · 10-17-2002, 11:00 AM

Mudge, I think he was addressing both of our posts. ANd he also emphasised my point. Test levels are easier to keep steady with single esters.ie.prop,cyp,enathate. But while waiting for those slow ass esters to kick in, prop is always a good kick start. Prop is not a yo yo game if you use it like you are supposed to. It's just not for the needle shy.

Belial, I didn't mean to imply the ester has anythign to do with esterification, but rather the amount in the amount in the blood or the up and down rollercoaster effect. Thanks for making my point better than I could. lol

Belial · 10-18-2002, 02:11 PM

I wasn't disagreeing with either of you guys, just clarifying what's a confusing point to many.

**Mudge** · 10-18-2002, 03:31 PM

You dont have to wait for cyp to kick in, front load.

crackerjack414 · 10-19-2002, 08:10 PM

lol never used cyp but have heard good things. The only bad thing is sometimes the prop shots can hurt like a m$%^&^ F$%^^#

cornfed · 10-21-2002, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Belial
Esterification does not in any way affect aromatization. It simply controls how much steroid is present in the bloodstream over the x days after injection. Yeah, drastic ups and downs will cause excessive estrogen levels, but so will hugely elevated test levels (like you'll see in week 10 of a sust cycle, when levels are sky high)

More frequent, smaller injections ARE better as well. The way I'd do prop is actually 50-100mg ED, not EOD... the half life isn't THAT short... if you inject it every day the levels are pretty damn stable, certainly more so than doing cyp or enan once a week...

I agree w/ the 1st paragraph, but IMO EOD is pref. b/c prop peaks on the 3rd day. I think ED would be a 'lil overkill but it's all an opinion issue, I guess.

1.5 days apart would be best in theory, so take your pick or follow what your wallet says

cornfed · 10-21-2002, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackerjack414
lol never used cyp but have heard good things. The only bad thing is sometimes the prop shots can hurt like a m$%^&^ F$%^^#

Yeah, and thanx 2 vet gear, infections are likely

Belial · 10-21-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cornfed

I agree w/ the 1st paragraph, but IMO EOD is pref. b/c prop peaks on the 3rd day. I think ED would be a 'lil overkill but it's all an opinion issue, I guess.

1.5 days apart would be best in theory, so take your pick or follow what your wallet says

The pharmacokinetics of prop indicate elevated and stable blood levels, starting ~12 hours post injection (1 ml deep gluteal intramuscular) and remaining elevated for another ~36 hours. By day 3, levels are already clinically insignificant for our purposes.(assuming a 50mg prop injection, levels are roughly 500-600ng/dl around hour 72). (Fujioka et al, journal clinical endo, 1986.) So I don't know where this 3 day peaking bit comes from.

cornfed · 10-23-2002, 11:30 AM

Well then I opologize, bro. I was going off of faulty info.

Belial · 10-25-2002, 02:07 PM

S'cool, mang.

Problem is, it's never that easy. Size of injection, location, etc. can all make as big a difference in half life as ester. .5cc's of test decanoate in the delt will probably release faster than 2cc's of cypionate in the glute, (in terms of percentage of steroid released over time) just because the delt has better circulation and the oil depot is smaller. So in that case, ester doesn't matter quite so much. If you inject 2cc's of prop in the glute, you'll probably get a peak lasting 2-3 days then dropping, but if you're doing 1cc in the bicep you'll probably be lucky to have clinically elevated levels after 24 hours.

Remember, esterase (the enzyme that removes esters) is NOT located in the liver, it's in the blood stream, and the enzyme reaction is extremely fast. Within minutes of hitting the blood stream, even the longest chain ester is removed quickly. All the ester does is slow release from the oil depot.

Rather than stressing about this, I'd rather just inject ED and save myself the uncertainty.

cornfed · 10-29-2002, 01:01 PM

LOL... I loved 'jects, but a 22 0r 23 ED isn't my cup 'o tea. Great info, though. Much appreciated.

BUSTINOUT · 10-31-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cornfed

Yeah, and thanx 2 vet gear, infections are likely

My most painful prop shots were human grade. Long before there was vet grade. Of course, that's going back a ways. lol

10-14-2002, 10:45 AM	#1
david EAST COAST BRAT Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waterworld, FL Posts: 25,420 Photos: 2	Question on Testosterone Proprionate Someone I know has this and I'm not familiar with it. 1) How much doses can one take per week? 2) How much is too much before it becomes a waste? 3) Can it be used to stand alone? Is it effective still?

10-14-2002, 11:00 AM	#2
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	1 & 2) I say 100-150/EOD for 10-12wk (peaks on 3rd day after 'ject, short .5life) 3) yes, but I wouldn't. Ex: stacks 1)_ Prop @ 100mg EOD wk1-12 ___EQ @ 400mg/wk 1-10 ___Fina @ 37.5 or 75 ED 1-5 ___Winny @ 50mg/ED 6-12 2) Prop @ 100mg EOD 1-12 __Susp @ 100mg pre training __EQ or Deca
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

10-15-2002, 02:05 PM	#4
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	IP? (I say short ester tests in any cycle... no bloat, no need for dbol, better pumps, more injections... what more could you ask for?)
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

10-15-2002, 04:37 PM	#5
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	How about, less injections, and easier on the body? Cypionate
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-15-2002, 07:16 PM	#6
Heavy_Hat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Posts: 1	I would say wks 1-10 test/prop 100mg ed (eod for newbies) wks 1-10 fina 75mg ed (eod for newbies) 1000 mg ALA ed 500mg cranberry extract ed and an excellent diet would be good. I love short esters...
	This is my world, everyone else is just dwelling in it!!!!! Email Heavy_Hat@ziplip.com if you have any questions....

10-14-2002, 11:13 AM	#3
david EAST COAST BRAT Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waterworld, FL Posts: 25,420 Photos: 2	thnx cornfed! This vial here is written in Chinese!

10-15-2002, 10:25 PM	#7
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	Fina for 10 weeks, sounds... fun, might work for some, might make others bitchy, as for fina dick I dont know how common it is.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-16-2002, 04:41 AM	#8
Mifody Member Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: . Posts: 175	the test would probably eliminate the fina dick

10-16-2002, 08:18 AM	#9
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	True, test would eliminate the anti-libido affect, but tren for 10 Why not Fina/winny 6wk each or instead of winny, halo for a coupla' wks Mif, prop is pretty easy on the system, but yeah cyp is gr8. Cyp for 10, susp pretraining, prop for the 1st 4wks instead of dbol and a good anabolic... ahh...
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

10-16-2002, 04:59 PM	#10
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	My understanding is that prop is harder on the system due to its quick releasing nature..?
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-16-2002, 06:19 PM	#11
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	just a faster release not realy all in all that bad.

10-16-2002, 06:36 PM	#12
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	One person says one thing, another says the opposite, always wonderfully confusing.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-17-2002, 01:34 AM	#14
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	Thats part of my point, much easier to controll levels with something longer acting, Prop is a yo yo game. I have an argument going on several boards about injection frequency, almost EVERYONE believes in more frequent injections as being 'better', however on Bodybuilders.com there are a few holdouts who say this is not true, that is THEE only board where I have found opposition to what everyone else believes, I actually stopped going there awhile back because the board itself is a little backwoods and just too many idiots on the site, I am still trying to grasp how this guy came by his ideas. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...&goto=lastpost
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-17-2002, 07:45 AM	#15
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42	Esterification does not in any way affect aromatization. It simply controls how much steroid is present in the bloodstream over the x days after injection. Yeah, drastic ups and downs will cause excessive estrogen levels, but so will hugely elevated test levels (like you'll see in week 10 of a sust cycle, when levels are sky high) More frequent, smaller injections ARE better as well. The way I'd do prop is actually 50-100mg ED, not EOD... the half life isn't THAT short... if you inject it every day the levels are pretty damn stable, certainly more so than doing cyp or enan once a week...
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42

10-17-2002, 09:23 AM	#16
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	I imagine you meant me, but I didn't mention aromitization at all and was not on my mind. As for cyp my idea was E4D or E5D, or even E3D injections, for stuff thats 400mg/ml though it would be harder to go that route for a newbie, unless they used a slin pin with a standard needle.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-17-2002, 11:00 AM	#17
BUSTINOUT Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,418	Mudge, I think he was addressing both of our posts. ANd he also emphasised my point. Test levels are easier to keep steady with single esters.ie.prop,cyp,enathate. But while waiting for those slow ass esters to kick in, prop is always a good kick start. Prop is not a yo yo game if you use it like you are supposed to. It's just not for the needle shy. Belial, I didn't mean to imply the ester has anythign to do with esterification, but rather the amount in the amount in the blood or the up and down rollercoaster effect. Thanks for making my point better than I could. lol

10-18-2002, 02:11 PM	#18
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42	I wasn't disagreeing with either of you guys, just clarifying what's a confusing point to many.
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42

10-18-2002, 03:31 PM	#19
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,053 Photos: 1	You dont have to wait for cyp to kick in, front load.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-19-2002, 08:10 PM	#20
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	lol never used cyp but have heard good things. The only bad thing is sometimes the prop shots can hurt like a m$%^&^ F$%^^#

10-23-2002, 11:30 AM	#24
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	Well then I opologize, bro. I was going off of faulty info.
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

10-25-2002, 02:07 PM	#25
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42	S'cool, mang. Problem is, it's never that easy. Size of injection, location, etc. can all make as big a difference in half life as ester. .5cc's of test decanoate in the delt will probably release faster than 2cc's of cypionate in the glute, (in terms of percentage of steroid released over time) just because the delt has better circulation and the oil depot is smaller. So in that case, ester doesn't matter quite so much. If you inject 2cc's of prop in the glute, you'll probably get a peak lasting 2-3 days then dropping, but if you're doing 1cc in the bicep you'll probably be lucky to have clinically elevated levels after 24 hours. Remember, esterase (the enzyme that removes esters) is NOT located in the liver, it's in the blood stream, and the enzyme reaction is extremely fast. Within minutes of hitting the blood stream, even the longest chain ester is removed quickly. All the ester does is slow release from the oil depot. Rather than stressing about this, I'd rather just inject ED and save myself the uncertainty.
Belial Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 42

10-29-2002, 01:01 PM	#26
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	LOL... I loved 'jects, but a 22 0r 23 ED isn't my cup 'o tea. Great info, though. Much appreciated.
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

10-31-2002, 03:35 PM	#28
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join D