Thread: lean mass gain/slight bf% cut cycle

Others may disagree but I would run the test prop, possibly more per week though with EOD injects, and pulse superdrol or DMZ for the duration of the cycle. You will keep gains.

Your Test Prop should be dosed EOD, some will argue ED but you're fine with EOD doses. At least 100mg EOD. Needles should be 22 or 23 gauge, 1" length. Some prefer 1-1/2" length for deep shots in glutes but I've always used 1" with success. Plus, you can always use 1" in delts as well as glutes. Pin the upper outer quadrant of the glute. The details of proper sanitary pinning techniques can be found in the Stickies. Many pin the HCG starting Week 2 or 3 and continue it throughout PCT. It's not a requirement and I don't use HCG but I've heard it helps with PCT. 500ius twice a week is typical but someone with more HCG knowledge can back me up on this, or refute it. Arimidex is usually taken 0.5mg EOD and increased if needed. But 0.5mg EOD is enough to keep estrogenic sides in check and not interfere with your gains. It's a tough call with the T-Bol, I've seen people advocate it for cycle beginnings and others for final weeks of cycle. 40mg ED is not a lot and you might want to consider increasing to 50-60mg ED but who knows, you might be okay with 40mg. Everyone is different. I would advise to take it as it's a nice idea to add an oral to the cycle for synergistic reasons and to kind of make the cycle a bit more dynamic. I'll be starting 4 weeks of Tbol myself to end my cycle in the near future. But dose will be 50mg ED.

Nolva is ok but more people would advocate the Clomid to start one week after your last Test Prop shot or two weeks following final shot of longer ester test such as Cyp or Enanthate. If you get Clomid, take 100mg ED for Week 1. 75mg ED Week 2 and 50mg ED Weeks 3 and 4. If you can't get Clomid, take the Nolva as you laid out. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's going on but don't underestimate the importance of PROPER PINNING. As previously stated, read the sticky notes. You'll find a thread referencing proper pinning or something to that effect.

Good luck, stay hydrated, 1.5 - 2grams protein per lb of bodyweight and enjoy the ride brother!

thanks bigbird for the detailed reply. Im probably gonna use the tbol the last 4 weeks because I want to get a feel for the test prop first. the reason I dont want to use clomid is because of the reported vision side effects. my eyesight is slightly not perfect and i dont want to risk it.

Whats everyones opinion on 6 or 8 weeks of test prop? and clen or no clen?
thanks

22g with prop? Wouldn't that be thinner than test E? I use 25g with test E.

also is hcg really important for my cycle? because im getting a headache figuring out all the stuff i need to order only for hcg(syringes, needles, vials, bacteriostatic water)

If you need help on injections, go to spotinjections.com. Good info there.

Clomid is ideal for pct. I'm using now and haven't had any vision issues but I've read reports of people going blurry so it's prob on a case by case basis.

Use the Prop for 8 weeks. 6 is too short IMO. Let me warn you now, Prop generally causes a lot of pain. At least that's been my experience with it and I've read of numerous others that had the same issue. However, I've also heard of people having zero pain. Just depends on how your gear is made.

Start the arimidex on day 1 starting at 0.5 mg eod. If you start seeing estrogen related sides like bloating, retaining water, etc. increase your dose slightly until you get it dialed in.

I've used tbol and overall I had a good experience with it. IMO 40 mg is too low of a dose. I did 40 mg and the gains were "okay" but I think it would have been much better at 60 mg or slightly more. If you're looking to cut, anavar may be a better choice.

Originally Posted by Vibrant

also is hcg really important for my cycle? because im getting a headache figuring out all the stuff i need to order only for hcg(syringes, needles, vials, bacteriostatic water)

Hcg is not needed. It helps with recovery and keeps your boys from shrinking. It is preferred but a necessity. But you're running a short cycle so I would just go without. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

Hcg is not needed. It helps with recovery and keeps your boys from shrinking. It is preferred but a necessity. But you're running a short cycle so I would just go without. But that's just me.

yeah, i think im gonna pass on the hcg for this cycle. any advice on whether to go 6 or 8weeks for the test prop?

8 for sure

sorry for all the questions but i want to be sure about everything because this is gonna be my first full fledged cycle.
another question from me is what gauge needles should i use for a 100mg test prop shot?

Ok, read around a few forums and most say to go with a 25g/ 1" or 1-1/2" for test prop. another question from me is am i ok with pinning only my glutes eod or do i need another injection site?

Your going to want another site. Maybe not, but you are going to be sore going back and forth between each cheek.

Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Vibrant

Ok, read around a few forums and most say to go with a 25g/ 1" or 1-1/2" for test prop. another question from me is am i ok with pinning only my glutes eod or do i need another injection site?

I've always had success with 22 and 23 ga. Any smaller and it could take a while to plunge the oil through the opening of the needle. Of course, since you're injecting EOD or E3D, you may rather go for utlimate comfort and stick with 25ga. One option is to draw substance out with a 22 gauge and then switch to the 25 ga. for injection. I do glutes 3x weekly with no soreness, scar tissue etc but it could behoove you to add delt shots in there (and/or quads if it suits your fancy). Prop can sometimes cause a time delayed discomfort once injected. Discomfort can begin a few hours post injection or even next day or so. Massage injection site after injection and plunge in niiiiiiice and slowwwwwwly.

Definately plan an eight (8) week cycle.

Test E and 25 for me so I can only assume that the prop would do fine.

You might want to go glutes, quads, then delts.

1.5" for glutes. 1" for quads. 1" or 5/8" for delts.

I'm probably gonna go with the 25 gauge. I'm gonna add quads but I'm unsure about delts.
Are prop shots usually painful? I've only had vitamin b shots before and those hurt like hell.. I know that b shots are water based, so because of that they should hurt but can anyone who has had both compare the pain for me? Thanks guys for your continued feedback and advice.

How old are you Vibrant? 6'1" at 185 is a bit thin. You may be over training at 5 on 1 off. Not sure you're really allowing yourself the time of rest to grow. Also not sure you're really getting enough protein in your diet. Sounds like you are on paper but... If you're at 8% BF why are you trying to cut to 6% in the middle of winter? 6% is low enough to see a lot of detail but tough to add size going from 8% to 6%. Why not use this time of year to pack on some good mass with more rest, high cal diet and heavy training with lots of basic hardcore movements?

Originally Posted by Glycomann

How old are you Vibrant? 6'1" at 185 is a bit thin. You may be over training at 5 on 1 off. Not sure you're really allowing yourself the time of rest to grow. Also not sure you're really getting enough protein in your diet. Sounds like you are on paper but... If you're at 8% BF why are you trying to cut to 6% in the middle of winter? 6% is low enough to see a lot of detail but tough to add size going from 8% to 6%. Why not use this time of year to pack on some good mass with more rest, high cal diet and heavy training with lots of basic hardcore movements?

I'm 24. I might be over training but my training revolves around my work. I work in sports so I get about 4 hours of high intensity work. That is one of the reasons I'm pretty thin. I burn a lot of my muscle mass because of that.

I'm in south florida so it's still pretty warm here in the winter. I can't really put on too much bulk because then I won't have enough endurance for work. However, if I put on around 7 pounds and cut my bf% to 6%i will look good.

I try to get as much protein and calories as I can because I start to drop weight fast when I don't. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to do a true bulk cycle.

Originally Posted by Vibrant

I'm probably gonna go with the 25 gauge. I'm gonna add quads but I'm unsure about delts.
Are prop shots usually painful? I've only had vitamin b shots before and those hurt like hell.. I know that b shots are water based, so because of that they should hurt but can anyone who has had both compare the pain for me? Thanks guys for your continued feedback and advice.

so does any have any feedback on this ^^^^^^^
also are 1inch needles ok for glutes?
thanks

Test prop is a little more painful at times but some guys make it a bigger deal than what it is..you'll be fine. I have bros that do pin glutes with 1" depends on how much fat u have on your ass. Just stick with the quads and delts that's all I ever use. The glutes get old fast..plus if you pin that sciatic nerve you will forget all about the prop pain...I use 23g 1" 90% of the time FYI

The reason I don't want to pin delts is because I had a bad experience with delt shot before. When I was 16 I got a routine vaccine shot to a delt and I couldn't lift my arm for a week... maybe it was like that because I had pretty weak arms.

I have someone someone who's gonna do the shots for me, so that's good.
Thanks for all the help everyone!!!

Originally Posted by Vibrant

so does any have any feedback on this ^^^^^^^
also are 1inch needles ok for glutes?
thanks

I've pinned 1" in glutes for many cycles over several years and it's always worked for me. Never hit sciatic nerve b/c you have to make sure you're staying in the upper outer quadrant. That is, stay to the outside of the center line that runs through each cheek. However, I guess everyone's ass is different but this is what has always worked for me. I happen to have access to 1.5" pins sometimes and use those in glutes too. Both the 1" and 1.5" seem to have always delivered the product with equal efficiency. I remember getting vaccines in delts that caused soreness for a day ro two afterwards but I think this has more to do with the actual vaccine itself as aas pinning has never given such kind of soreness in delt with 1". Just my experience. Best of luck. Make sure to plunge slowly (allow a good 30-60 secs for plunging) and follow up with massage to the area.