AI for this low dose Test and Primo cycle?

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 11:56 AM

I'm assuming most of you know I ran into gyno problems last cycle so I want to play it safe, but don't want to put more drugs(ancillaries) into my body than I need too either.

Planning 10 weeks---

Test E @250/week
Primo @ 500/week

(I also have some Test prop that I'll probably use to front load pinning 100mgeod OR I'll wait and see if I feel the need for more test later in the cycle)

Primo does aromatize and 250mg of test "shouldn't" cause too much of a problem I don't think...so I'm thinking I probably don't need any BUT to be safe I want to have something on hand especially since I did run into problems before albeit at a much higher dose.

What do you think???

Also, do you see any problem pinning the Test and Primo MWF I'm not sure I want to pin 3ccs every time, rather cut down on the volume.

**BigBird** · 02-02-2011, 12:57 PM

Contrary to what you wrote, Primo does NOT aromatize. You'll avoid estrogenic side effects for the most part with Primo and hair loss will probably be the only real concern but that's usually attrtibuted to extremely high doses i.e. 800mg EW.
12 weeks is the ideal length of time for Primo and since it has the longer acting enanthate ester, along w/ the Test E, there really is no good reason to pin either of them more than twice weekly.

The test obviously obviously converts to estrogen but the higher the dose, the greater the chance for sides. You could run a low dose AI such as .25 Adex EOD to start. Plus keep Nolva on hand. 250mg is not much considering 500mg is pretty much the agreed upon standard for minimal blasting.

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by BigBird

Contrary to what you wrote, Primo does NOT aromatize. You'll avoid estrogenic side effects for the most part with Primo and hair loss will probably be the only real concern but that's usually attrtibuted to extremely high doses i.e. 800mg EW.
12 weeks is the ideal length of time for Primo and since it has the longer acting enanthate ester, along w/ the Test E, there really is no good reason to pin either of them more than twice weekly.

The test obviously obviously converts to estrogen but the higher the dose, the greater the chance for sides. You could run a low dose AI such as .25 Adex EOD to start. Plus keep Nolva on hand. 250mg is not much considering 500mg is pretty much the agreed upon standard for minimal blasting.

Typo, I meant to say it doesn't aromatize. Once you start getting into high enough doses you would have to pin more than 2x/week b/c of the sheer volume...I'm right at the brink with 6cc/week.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I may go with adex and keep the nolva on hand as you mentioned. Test is low b/c I REALLY dont want to have to deal with gyno symptoms again.

**Beejis60** · 02-02-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by DaBeast25

Test is low b/c I REALLY dont want to have to deal with gyno symptoms again.

That's why you take an AI properly.
And aware me of gyno symptoms lol. Or do you mean aromatization symptoms, which I've still never really noticed any other than a little bit of increased sub-q water, which who cares.

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Beejis60

That's why you take an AI properly.
And aware me of gyno symptoms lol. Or do you mean aromatization symptoms, which I've still never really noticed any other than a little bit of increased sub-q water, which who cares.

Last cycle I was went up to 2.5mg of Letro for a while before I noticed any difference...prior to this I was taking Aromasin. My nipples were itchy, puffy, and I was able to squeeze a tiny bit of fluid out of them...you've now been "awared" of gyno symptoms, lol

**Roughneck_91** · 02-02-2011, 06:06 PM

I don't think the compounds and dosages your going to be using warrants Arimidex. Your Test dosage is so low Arimidex could possibly decrease your estrogen to too low of levels resulting in a negative lipid ratio and fucked up joints etc.

The only reason I would say have some on hand is your past gyno experience... just in case. But if I were you, administering that cycle, I would just stick with 20mg Nolvadex every other day... its cheap, safe and effective...

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Roughneck_91

I don't think the compounds and dosages your going to be using warrants Arimidex. Your Test dosage is so low Arimidex could possibly decrease your estrogen to too low of levels resulting in a negative lipid ratio and fucked up joints etc.

That's right along the lines of what I was initially thinking...I feel like ANY AI may be overboard with only 250mg of test and I tend to have some joint issues from time to time already.

I dont know about taking Nolva for potentially 16 weeks straight either???

I guess I'll have to just figure it out, but my gut is telling me not to take anything and to have nolva on hand just in case something flares up

**Roughneck_91** · 02-02-2011, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by DaBeast25

That's right along the lines of what I was initially thinking...I feel like ANY AI may be overboard with only 250mg of test and I tend to have some joint issues from time to time already.

I dont know about taking Nolva for potentially 16 weeks straight either???

I guess I'll have to just figure it out, but my gut is telling me not to take anything and to have nolva on hand just in case something flares up

That would be fine too, but if your only deterrent is length, I wouldn't really worry about it. It's not like your running an oral in the cycle and your liver is going to get "all messed up" (scientific term)

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Roughneck_91

That would be fine too, but if your only deterrent is length, I wouldn't really worry about it. It's not like your running an oral in the cycle and your liver is going to get "all messed up" (scientific term)

Lol, yeah I know what you mean...I'm just trying to minimize how many things I'm putting in my body.

**Roughneck_91** · 02-02-2011, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by DaBeast25

Lol, yeah I know what you mean...I'm just trying to minimize how many things I'm putting in my body.

I support and agree with that. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you require further assistance.

**ROID** · 02-02-2011, 06:52 PM

Bro, you need to just stop giving advice about not using AIs. Especially when you think Nolvadex is the better option.

**bknoxx** · 02-02-2011, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

Bro, you need to just stop giving advice about not using AIs. Especially when you think Nolvadex is the better option.

i agree with ROID bad advice might as well not give any u can run 300mg test a week and still get gyno just cause it's a low dose doesnt mean not to take caution

**ROID** · 02-02-2011, 07:04 PM

Normally I wouldn't care but I learned the hard way.

I have two lumps under the nips and even though its not noticeable to anyone but myself it drives me crazy. No matter how hard I work and how "in shape" I am, I will never be happy until I have the surgery and get the masses removed.

.5mg liquidex EOD costs me pennies.

surgery ~5k

**DaBeast25** · 02-02-2011, 07:09 PM

Isn't it possible to suppress estro too much... creating a number of other sides???

**Roughneck_91** · 02-02-2011, 07:12 PM

I have had friends that were in the same boat (both experienced users) and were over zealous with anti-estrogens. One tore a Patella tendon while using light weight on a leg press, the other checked himself into the ER because he was having chest pains and difficulty breathing.

I'm pretty sure no one here is a Medical Physician. I simply offered another perspective, which should be considered given the possible outcomes. If gyno is the only concern why not use a SERM?

**bknoxx** · 02-02-2011, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by DaBeast25

Isn't it possible to suppress estro too much... creating a number of other sides???

yes u can but if u take the right doses u would be ok some take .5ed .25 ed some take .5eod just depends if u was taking .5 ed and felt symptoms of gyno just up the dose a lil bit

**ROID** · 02-02-2011, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by DaBeast25

Isn't it possible to suppress estro too much... creating a number of other sides???

Its not likey.

HeavyIron, CT, or Victor can explain things way better than me. They are more tactful and will put up studies that have been done.

IMO you should always, always use an AI.

Nolvadex is useless. I dont care how many years people have been using it. It does nothing to lower estrogen and it's not good for recovery.

**Roughneck_91** · 02-02-2011, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by ROID

Its not likey.

HeavyIron can explain things way better than me. He is more tactful and he will put up studies that have been done.

IMO you should always, always use an AI.

Nolvadex is useless. I dont care how many years people have been using it. It does nothing to lower estrogen and it's not good for recovery.

The intent of Nolvadex isn't to lower estrogen. Estrogen is an important hormone with serious consequences if manipulated and not monitored regularly.

If we were talking about 1g + of Test a week, a competitive bodybuilder, with regular blood work, sure. But that's not what this situation is.

I'm not trying to get into it with you. Intelligent discussion and debate is good

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