Thread: cell tech after slin.

Becarefull Da CellTech isn't for beginners, I think you have to do a pct with it

seriously though, how much dextrose are you needing after your slin? U can get dextrose in a powder and mix it with whatever

il run humalog for 4 weeks 3 x a week immediately post workout il start at 2 iu and add a iu each day till i reach around 10 iu.

I've used cell tech several times. The stuff is ridiculously sweet. Like almost hard to drink it's so sweet. Cut it with more water if you have to. If I don't dilute it enough, it actually gives me headaches.

to much sugar bro

It wouldn't be too much sugar if taking insulin.

celltech is overpriced, not sure why you'd go with that over creatine mono + dextrose

I am not really sure how to answer this question. I am not a user of insulin though I have researched it a good bit. I would think that using the cell tech to provide the source of carbs for insulin use might actually not be a bad idea due to the fact that it would result in a large uptake of creatine I would presume as well as the dextrose. There are other ingredients in Cell tech though such as Alpha lipoic acid. I am not sure how these things would interfere with the uptake of carbs. Keep glucose tablets on hand and maybe some crackers just in case of an emergency. I also would not use insulin without have advanced knowledge of how it works on the body. Insulin is not like AAS. Insulin can kill you if you underestimate it and if it is not used correctly. In my opinion you should not even consider using insulin until you have exhausted all other options and want to use it to compete with the top level of Professional bodybuilders. AAS can do wonders if you eat, train, and rest properly. Using Insulin can also increase bodyfat. I just want to make it clear that insulin should not be used by any beginners period. Caution must be used. Be Careful. A Glucose moniter should be used to make sure glucose levels don't drop into dangerous levels.

Originally Posted by TGB1987

I am not really sure how to answer this question. I am not a user of insulin though I have researched it a good bit. I would think that using the cell tech to provide the source of carbs for insulin use might actually not be a bad idea due to the fact that it would result in a large uptake of creatine I would presume as well as the dextrose. There are other ingredients in Cell tech though such as Alpha lipoic acid. I am not sure how these things would interfere with the uptake of carbs. Keep glucose tablets on hand and maybe some crackers just in case of an emergency. I also would not use insulin without have advanced knowledge of how it works on the body. Insulin is not like AAS. Insulin can kill you if you underestimate it and if it is not used correctly. In my opinion you should not even consider using insulin until you have exhausted all other options and want to use it to compete with the top level of Professional bodybuilders. AAS can do wonders if you eat, train, and rest properly. Using Insulin can also increase bodyfat. I just want to make it clear that insulin should not be used by any beginners period. Caution must be used. Be Careful. A Glucose moniter should be used to make sure glucose levels don't drop into dangerous levels.

Ive been taking steroids for nearly 3 years now i started at 160 now im 228 just from steroids. its my time for insulin . I feel like it will take me to a level i need to be which is 250 range. yea i understand its dangerous and im well aware of it causing death but bodybuilders use insulin all the time and arent dead because they know what their doing and thats what im gonna do because il know what i am doing. do you think im ready?

Only you can say whether or not you are ready for slin. I just want to make sure others who are not ready don't take go out and try it. When used properly insulin can add mass and increase endurance. Here is a article

Insulin and Bodybuilding

By Dr William Bird

The performance-enhancing properties of insulin mean misuse of the hormone is becoming increasingly common in some sports. But health experts warn that those dabbling in the drug could cause themselves irreparable damage.

Almost the “perfect drug”

Recently, it emerged that a 31-year-old man was admitted to hospital in Yorkshire in a coma having taken too much insulin as part of a bodybuilding regime. Last year the 35-year-old holder of eight power-lifting titles in Scotland was in a coma for two months after suspected abuse of insulin.

Dr Rob Dawson is a GP who runs a confidential needle exchange scheme for bodybuilders and sportsmen. He says about 10 per cent of the 450 patients he regularly sees have said they use insulin.

Insulin is almost the perfect drug to increase stamina or endurance for athletes. It is readily available, cheap, difficult to detect and actually enhances performance. But it can be lethal.

“Insulin is bad for body builders…I cannot stress it enough. I would never ever use it,” says 45-year-old Mick Hart, an expert on bodybuilding. He runs a bodybuilding magazine and has written the acclaimed book, “The Layman’s Guide to Steroids”. He says, “As an authority in the sport, it is the deadliest thing that has ever hit the sport.”

Insulin info

Insulin is a natural hormone secreted from the pancreas, which controls the levels of glucose in the body. Diabetics need to inject it to prevent a rise in blood glucose. However if too much is injected and blood sugar falls to a very low level then this can lead to sweating, shaking and eventually a coma or death. It is important for anyone who injects themselves with insulin to know exactly how much they require.

For a few years, insulin has been used to help improve endurance in athletes as well as to build muscles for athletes.

Endurance athletes are helped because insulin helps glucose enter muscle cells. If more glucose enters the cell than is needed then it will stimulate glycogen formation. Glycogen is a kind of “power pack” that can be switched on very quickly.

In an article on insulin, growth hormone and sport, Dr Sonksen from St Thomas’ Hospital in London wrote, “Since performance in many events is known to be a function of muscle glycogen stores, bulking up these stores will most probably enhance performance.”

Insulin is used in bodybuilding to increase the bulk of muscles. Regular injections of short-acting insulin are combined with a high carbohydrate diet and this has two helpful effects.

Firstly, the insulin works in the same way as it does in endurance athletes – increasing the volume of glycogen and leading to an increase in muscle bulk.

The second effect is that it prevents the breakdown of muscle protein. This means more muscle is made than destroyed, thereby increasing the size of muscles.

But this method of bulking up carries risks. As in the case of the man in Yorkshire, it can lead to a drop in blood-sugar levels, leading to coma or even death.

Some experts also warn that used over the long-term, it could ironically, lead to the development of diabetes, as the body’s own ability to produce the hormone falters.

Aside from these problems, most athletes who use the hormone endanger themselves further because they are unsure of the dose that is required. What follows is a game of trial and error – lethal when injecting insulin. Without professional advice this can lead to dangerous practices.

“One [shot] might be good so two might be better and three might be better than that,” says Mick Hart. He says he has seen fellow bodybuilders admitted to hospital after taking too much insulin, believing that the bigger the dose the better.

Most people who abuse insulin in sport get hold of it from diabetics but there are reports from “underground” sources that private doctors may well be prescribing insulin to athletes who are not diabetics.

The nightmare scenario according to Hart is if we see criminal gangs importing poor grade insulin from the Far East or Russia. This will cause far more problems than sport faces at present.

What the judges say

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has very specific guidelines on the taking of insulin. Unsurprisingly, it permits only the treatment of athletes with certified insulin-dependent diabetes and considers it an offence if any other competitors take the substance.

The medical director of the IOC Dr Patrick Schamasch says they can detect the abuse of insulin because injectable insulin differs from natural insulin. Some forms of insulin come from animals such as pigs and some is human insulin but genetically manufactured. “We [at the IOC] are aware that insulin is used in athletes but we are confident that we are able to detect it,” he says.

Insulin may appear to be an effective way of boosting performance in a sport where the pressure to be the best is always on. But medics wonder how many more athletes will have to come to harm before its full danger is realised.

Insulin: The Good and the Bad
Basic Insulin guide for beginners


Directions for first time insulin users



WHAT IS INSULIN?
Insulin is a hormone produced in the pancreas- islet cells/beta cells to be specific. Insulin facilitates the use of sugar, which all calories are ultimately converted to, for the multitude of bodily functions which include energy production, brain activity, metabolism regulation- basically all of your body's function either directly or indirectly.

WHERE DO I GET IT AND WHAT TYPE DO I USE?
Humilin R is available OTC just about everywhere and while it is a quick acting insulin, it is not the fastest or most consistent in terms of absorption and effect. Humulin R starts working in about 1/2 hour and the effect can last up to six hours.

Humalog is available OTC in some states/countries while be RX only in many other states. Humalog is a true fast acting insulin which begins activity within 15 minutes and ends activity within 4 hours. Humalog is the preferred insulin to use since it works more predictably and is out of your system faster which makes it easier to control.

HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?
In general, Insulin costs between $20-$30 depending on the type and where you buy it.

WHAT KIND OF NEEDLES DO I USE?
Use 29 gauge, 1/2cc insulin syringes. "B-D ultra-fine" is my preference in terms of brand.

WHERE DO I INJECT?
Upper back of arm, abdomen (avoid area too close to belly button), inner and outer upper thigh, butt cheeks.

HOW DO I INJECT?
Rotate injection sites each time you inject. Don't inject into the same area two times in a row. Insulin injections are subcutaneous- not intramuscular.

WHAT DOSE DO I START WITH?
Start with 2-3 units of insulin. There is no need to start higher than this as you will be adjusting your dose gradually to find a tolerable level.

HOW DO I INCREASE MY DOSE?
To move your dose higher in order to find your ideal dose, go up by one unit per day. A very general guide would be to consider between 10 and 15 units as your pre-determined upper limit. If it turns out you want to go higher and don't have any trouble with those doses, then no harm is done and you can go higher. Don't make big leaps up in dose or assume more is better- be safe rather than sorry.

WHAT DO I EAT AND WHEN DO I EAT IT?
For Humulin R, the general start of activity is within a 1/2 hour but the varies ALLOT!!!!! Don't assume you have tons of time to wait to eat simple sugars. Pay attention to how you feel and never wait more than 15 minutes if that) to eat. First consume simple sugars (dextrose preferred but not the only one) in the form of some type of drink as these are most readily absorbed in my experience. A general guideline is 10 grams of carbs for each unit of insulin- MINIMUM! Within a hour or so after your dose you want to eat a mix of simple carbs and high protein- this is the golden hour AFTER your workout when the insulin will shuttle nutrients into your muscles very efficiently. Humulin R will peak at two hours after you take it so you must eat another balanced meal at the hour and a half mark approximately. This meal should include complex carbs, some fats, and protein. Use simple carbs also if you feel any hypoglycemic symptoms. "R" will last up to six hours so be aware of how you feel and eat as needed after the two hour mark. REMEMBER THAT YOU STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INSULIN WORKING UP TO SIX HOURS LATER SO DON'T BE COMPLACENT AND ASSUME YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO HYPOGLYCEMIC.

For Humalog, use the same general rules and type of meal sequence, but begin the process immediately. Simple carbs should be ingested within 10 minutes- NO EXCEPTIONS. Then have the carb/protein meal within the hour. Then have the balanced meal of complex carbs/fats/protein at the hour 1/2 mark. Keep aware of how you feel up to four hours after your dose and eat as needed.

FACTORS AFFECTING INSULIN ABSORPTION/SENSITIVITY
The abdomen is generally the area where insulin is absorbed the most consistently or evenly as it is designed to be.

Injections near a muscle that you have worked out can dramatically increase the absorption rate and effect of your dose of insulin.

GH will make you more insulin Insensitive so your tolerance of insulin will change when on or off of GH.

Highly androgenic steroids also make you more insulin insensitive, however, can also cause very random hypoglycemia as well.

Supplements such as Chromium, Ginseng, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and Cinnamon (among others) increase insulin sensitivity.

Variations in glycogen levels in your muscles can also affect how severe a hypoglycemic reactions may be or may feel. If you are starting out with low levels of muscle glycogen, the same dose of insulin that didn't affect you before may now be too much.

The glucagon response from everyone's liver will vary. This hormone increases blood sugar when during stresses to the body or in response to hypoglycemia. Some people may get a big response from their liver and hypoglycemia for them won't be as severe. Others will have less of a response and may be more prone to insulin shock. This response can also vary for each person based on their diet, exercise etc. so don't assume your liver will react the same way to hypoglycemia each time- you may get help from it or you may have to depend mostly on consuming sugar to save your life.

WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF HYPOGLYCEMIA?
They include: sweating, dizziness, heart palpitations, tremors, drowsiness, sleep disturbances, anxiety, blurred vision, hunger, restlessness, lightheadedness, tingling in extremities, headache, slurred speech, irritability, unstable movement, personality changes, seizures, DEATH

HOW SHOULD I CYCLE INSULIN?
Insulin should be cycled so that you have less of a chance of permanently affecting your own body's production of insulin. Even cycling can affect your own production though so be aware and see your doctor regularly. I say 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off as a general rule of thumb with 6 weeks on being the absolute limit in my opinion.



This was meant to be a basic introduction to using insulin. I do not condone the use of insulin by non-diabetics nor am I encouraging anyone to use insulin. I am not a doctor and YOU are the only one who can be responsible for making the decision to use insulin. I hope this helps someone to stay safe and think things through before jumping into the unknown
.
written by AnabolicDiabetic

Some of the ingredients that are in Celltech can increase insulin sensitivity such as the alpha lipoic acid. There are many factors that can effect how strong of an effect insulin will have on the body. A dose that might be fine one time might be too much another time. CT would be able to give you some great advice on insulin. CT is more experienced with it. The articles I posted above are to just give some basic information.

Originally Posted by gorilla21

il run humalog for 4 weeks 3 x a week immediately post workout il start at 2 iu and add a iu each day till i reach around 10 iu.

You've done some homework.

Skip the Cell whatever it's called. Go to True Protein and just buy plain old dextrose, IT'S DIRT CHEAP.

DO NOT TAKE IN THAT MANY CARBS with only 2ius, you'll get fat....quick. Start off with 20-40g. 6-10g per iu of insulin and this is the tricky part as everyone is different and you'll have to use trial and error to see what works best for you.

You don't need any more than 8ius period. This is what the top pros are using and seeing that none of us here are even close to that......let's be smart and play it safe.

Keep a full can of sugared soda with you at all times, you'll need it in case you go hypo.

Insulin is safe as millions of people use it daily but you HAVE to know WTF you're doing. For example, a friend of mine who has used insulin at least 5-7 times recently went hypo on it. He was doing a keto diet on off days and carbs only on training days, he trains first thing in the AM on an empty stomach. He finished training and used 8ius of insulin, drank his dextrose (80g) and went on his way. 30-40 mins later he started going hypo and knew that was the case seeing as he has gone through this before. He ended up being safe but the reason that it happened is he took off two day with zero carbs and the 80g he used PWO wasn't nearly enough to keep up his blood sugar up.

The moral of the story is no matter how many times you've used it there is always a risk and stuff can happen.

If you add GH and IGF-1LR3.....look out, massive LBM gains.

This is why I said to talk to CT about it ^ .

buy some cheap ass creatine and a tub of gatorade powder.

Originally Posted by theBIGness

buy some cheap ass creatine and a tub of gatorade powder.

boom..... yes sir buddy....

tgb and ct and all you guys thanks alot for the good information. so basically if im taking 2 iu slin my first day il take about 18-20g dextrose , 3 iu 30g dextrose ...and so on.

That sounds good I woud keep some supplies around in case you need a quick fix. You should go and buy a glucose meter from the pharmacy. You can get them for 10-20 dollars also get some glucose tablets or gel in case of an emergency. Glucose tabs get your blood sugar up quickly.

I've always thought about it, but it scares the shit out of me. Have you tried hgh?

Originally Posted by ANIMALHOUSE

I've always thought about it, but it scares the shit out of me. Have you tried hgh?

No ive never tried hgh yet. i plan on running it in the future . Ive only taken steroids I love steroids they work theres not doubt about that im just trying to take it up a level and i feel like slin will make that difference . i wont be running it with hgh i cant afford hgh at the moment. i was thinkin primo slin prop ds lol

Sounds like an updated arnold cycle

Originally Posted by CT

Keep a full can of sugared soda with you at all times, you'll need it in case you go hypo.

I know this thread is a little bit old, but this is an important issue that can save a life. People do research and can depend on your information 100%

There's a few misinformation but they're almost or totally harmless. Except this one. I must address this issue!

Soda isn't "sugared" unless you buy old style soda that rarely comes out. You probably meant soda with carbohydratess(carbs). Just making sure. Anyway, soda uses fructose syrup which is what gives it carbs. There is zero fat in soda and nothing else is there to hold your blood glucose level up. When you consume corn fructose/soda, you will spike up very high due to glycemic index. You will then drop abruptly and in many cases you drop back to where you were. For some people it does not drop to where it was due to adrenaline keeping it up a little bit. Since you work out, you are using adrenaline and you may have used all of it so be careful about this one.

When you have a low (hypoglycemia) you want to have 15 grams of carbs from something with fat. Milk has fat, most juices has fat. You want to avoid chocolate because it does not act fast enough to bring you back up. If you don't have milk or juice and only have access to soda. Get a snack that has fat along with soda. A candy bar should suffice. Maybe power bar? I never had a power bar so I am unsure if it has fat.

I'm just someone that is very informed by variety of endocrinologist as I visit them every 3 months for A1C reading and questions/answers.

Originally Posted by QuicksilverFX

I know this thread is a little bit old, but this is an important issue that can save a life. People do research and can depend on your information 100%

There's a few misinformation but they're almost or totally harmless. Except this one. I must address this issue!

Soda isn't "sugared" unless you buy old style soda that rarely comes out. You probably meant soda with carbohydratess(carbs). Just making sure. Anyway, soda uses fructose syrup which is what gives it carbs. There is zero fat in soda and nothing else is there to hold your blood glucose level up. When you consume corn fructose/soda, you will spike up very high due to glycemic index. You will then drop abruptly and in many cases you drop back to where you were. For some people it does not drop to where it was due to adrenaline keeping it up a little bit. Since you work out, you are using adrenaline and you may have used all of it so be careful about this one.

When you have a low (hypoglycemia) you want to have 15 grams of carbs from something with fat. Milk has fat, most juices has fat. You want to avoid chocolate because it does not act fast enough to bring you back up. If you don't have milk or juice and only have access to soda. Get a snack that has fat along with soda. A candy bar should suffice. Maybe power bar? I never had a power bar so I am unsure if it has fat.

I'm just someone that is very informed by variety of endocrinologist as I visit them every 3 months for A1C reading and questions/answers.

Full sugared soda just means anything that isn't diet. If someone is just going to use insulin based off of one of my posts they are a fool. This is a subject which needs a lot of homework, A LOT.

I disagree with you about having to have fats with the carbs, it doesn't work that way in this instance. Adding fats during this time will lead to fat gain and it also slows the absorption of carbs down and releases them much slower into the blood stream.

Skim milk has no fat in it and I have yet to see a fruit juice which contained fat. Am I misunderstanding you in some way?

Originally Posted by CT

If someone is just going to use insulin based off of one of my posts they are a fool. This is a subject which needs a lot of homework, A LOT.

I disagree with you about having to have fats with the carbs, it doesn't work that way in this instance. Adding fats during this time will lead to fat gain and it also slows the absorption of carbs down and releases them much slower into the blood stream.

Absolutely true^^^

Fat will most definitely slow down the absorbtion of carbs and that is the last thing you want to do when hypoglycemic. A quick burst of simple carbs is what you need at that stage.

Also, slin is NOT for novices, as CT said it requires ALOT of homework. Best to stay away from it unless you have someone to show you the ropes.

Originally Posted by QuicksilverFX

Soda isn't "sugared" unless you buy old style soda that rarely comes out.

I enjoy a good cola/soda from time to time. Boylan is a brand that has been around for ever and they make their soda from pure sugar cane, so does Polar (the bottled kind only, not the caned stuff)....no high fructose corn syrup. Costs more than Coke or Pepsi, but it really does taste better.



/V

im diabetic, what tgb said rings true, be VERY carefull about being in a hypoglycemic state, if you feel sleepy say for example in the night do not fall asleep becuase you wont wake up.

another tip,,, if you feel your eyes start to go weird drink an entire can of sugary drink DONT sip or wait and think you will be fine

just had a hypo 2 hours ago; eat and drank everything in sight lol

Originally Posted by CT

Full sugared soda just means anything that isn't diet. If someone is just going to use insulin based off of one of my posts they are a fool. This is a subject which needs a lot of homework, A LOT.

I disagree with you about having to have fats with the carbs, it doesn't work that way in this instance. Adding fats during this time will lead to fat gain and it also slows the absorption of carbs down and releases them much slower into the blood stream.

Skim milk has no fat in it and I have yet to see a fruit juice which contained fat. Am I misunderstanding you in some way?

Yes, you are misunderstanding me in a way. I don't mean bite off a chunk of fat from a steak. Anything with fat content is fine. Even if it's low. 1G of fat will suffice.

Fat does slow down the absorption of carbs. But you're thinking of different kind of fat. The fat you already have in your body will slow down absorption of insulin and fat. However the fat in food will be absorbed after carbs are absorbed. Fat will hold your blood glucose up longer than non-fat food. High fructose soda is frowned upon by endocrinologists for dealing with hypoglycemia. They want you to have something with fat. You aren't going to gain static weight from one slice of cheese or 8oz of milk.

I'm type II diabetic.

Originally Posted by QuicksilverFX

Yes, you are misunderstanding me in a way. I don't mean bite off a chunk of fat from a steak. Anything with fat content is fine. Even if it's low. 1G of fat will suffice.

Fat does slow down the absorption of carbs. But you're thinking of different kind of fat. The fat you already have in your body will slow down absorption of insulin and fat. However the fat in food will be absorbed after carbs are absorbed. Fat will hold your blood glucose up longer than non-fat food. High fructose soda is frowned upon by endocrinologists for dealing with hypoglycemia. They want you to have something with fat. You aren't going to gain static weight from one slice of cheese or 8oz of milk.

I'm type II diabetic.

When you're going hypo it is TOTALLY fine to use high fructose corn syrup, TRUST ME it works.

The rest of your post doesn't really apply to using insulin for body building. It is totally different than the situation you're in. For a diabetic's situation, yes I agree with you but for the sake of body building I don't.

Originally Posted by CT

When you're going hypo it is TOTALLY fine to use high fructose corn syrup, TRUST ME it works.

The rest of your post doesn't really apply to using insulin for body building. It is totally different than the situation you're in. For a diabetic's situation, yes I agree with you but for the sake of body building I don't.

It does work initially. If you do not have enough adrenaline to help your body, you will drop back down to where you were. That's the point.