Thread: Proviron Off Cycle?

Originally Posted by TwisT

We are talking about proviron, not hcg, hmg, santa clause or hitler. Proviron.



You dont understand FSH..... FSH IS sperm count (kindof)

FSH is a DIRECT agonist for sperm germ cell maturation, not LH. LH has very little if nothing to do with sperm count, maturity, germ cell development. (yet obviously botha re hand-in-hand in fertility) How can you say I didn't touch on the FSH issue when both studies are directly related to sperm count. Sperm count is a DIRECT result of FSH secretion. Lower spem count means your FSH is not being secreted from the anterior pituitary.

You dont need to get a sperm count, FSH is covered in almost every hormone panel.

The point is, its proven that Priviron suppresses/has little to no effect other then between the ranges of 5-20mil sperm, (most likly because the subjects pituitary reacted to secretagogue), on FSH. Meaning its no good for PCT.... thats the point.

I disagree.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match and post study after study as we both could find studies which contradict each other.

I totally 100% believe in what I posted and what the study I posted states. I still won't change my opinion that at 50mg ED supression is void.

The studies you posted (as I've already stated once before) do not mention hcg, hmg or clomid being used, which most people who run a PCT use. The study mentions that the male had either idiopathic testicular failure or idiopathic low sperm mobility, and were dosed at 75-150mg proviron ED. MOST aas users do NOT have either of these symptoms.

IF an aas user had been using hcg on cycle and also used clomid for PCT then you're using data that does not apply to the original question, not to mention the fact that they never had issues with ITF or ILSM. The study and an aas user are two totally different subjects which do not have the same criteria. That is what I'm getting at, not Santa Clause or Hitler just the fact that proviron at 50mg ED does not cause shutdown for an aas user.

I don't want to get involved in weather it is suppresive or not. I will tilt to the side that it is, just for safety sakes. The whole point in PCT is to recover your natural test.
To me that means staying off all aas until you have recovered. I would use viagra.
CT, can you post a link so I can read that thread? Sounds interesting.

Originally Posted by CT

It's used to treat hypogonadism, so if it were supressive wouldn't that defeat the original purpose?

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.
Source

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Abstract

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


This study used 100-150mg ED. I suggested using 50mg ED. I think it's safe to say at 50mg ED it is not supressive.

Good study!

I think we can both agree, we really would need to see, and would benefit from, a study on anabolic users in the PCT phase with proviron I realllyyyy want to see that study.

Not a pissing match, educational debate... much more fun

Originally Posted by CT

I disagree.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match and post study after study as we both could find studies which contradict each other.

I totally 100% believe in what I posted and what the study I posted states. I still won't change my opinion that at 50mg ED supression is void.

The studies you posted (as I've already stated once before) do not mention hcg, hmg or clomid being used, which most people who run a PCT use. The study mentions that the male had either idiopathic testicular failure or idiopathic low sperm mobility, and were dosed at 75-150mg proviron ED. MOST aas users do NOT have either of these symptoms.

IF an aas user had been using hcg on cycle and also used clomid for PCT then you're using data that does not apply to the original question, not to mention the fact that they never had issues with ITF or ILSM. The study and an aas user are two totally different subjects which do not have the same criteria. That is what I'm getting at, not Santa Clause or Hitler just the fact that proviron at 50mg ED does not cause shutdown for an aas user.

Int Urol Nephrol. 1978;10(3):251-6.

Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.

Szöllösi J, Falkay GY, Sas M.

Abstract

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant.The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels, it has only peripheral effects.

PMID:689818[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Originally Posted by heavyiron

Int Urol Nephrol. 1978;10(3):251-6.

Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.

Szöllösi J, Falkay GY, Sas M.

Abstract

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant.The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels, it has only peripheral effects.

PMID:689818[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Thanks for taking the time to post that up.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I'm confused. Why not just use viagra/cialis if it's only the rat issue? This is what this is used for.

Well for starters, I don't believe Proviron has the tendency to make you flush aka red-faced the way Viagra or Cialis would. Also, Proviron - as a puire androgen - offers the additional benefit of body hardening which would not be the case with Viagra and similar ED drugs. Therefore, if all things are considered equal and Proviron doesn't shut you down at low to moderate doses, I would choose Proviron to resolve libido issues when off-cycle (as well as on cycle).

Originally Posted by CT

Thanks for taking the time to post that up.

I have read a number of studies and all the lower dose ones show zero effect on LH or T levels.

So in conclusion proviron is simply magic lol!!

Originally Posted by D-Latsky

So in conclusion proviron is simply magic lol!!

No, it will supress at higher doses. This effect may also happen at very long durations so keep dose and duration reasonable.