Clen vs. ECA

CRASHMAN · 12-16-2002, 08:49 PM

pros? cons?

what works better? (i know clens dead about 2 weeks then you have to take 2 off)

is it really worth it to find a dealer?

what persevers mass better?

just general knowlege i need before i try somethin and wiast money on it

how much clen would i need?

how much comes in a box?

trusted brands?

crackerjack414 · 12-16-2002, 09:32 PM

they are both beta 2 antagonisits i preffer clen myself

**Mudge** · 12-17-2002, 02:41 AM

Crash, I'm older than you and I wont touch clen, no reason too! Are you actually considering it at all? Unless your seriously seriously overweight, which I'm doubting, I would not even give it a thought at your age, or at mine.

**Mudge** · 12-17-2002, 02:43 AM

Clenbuterol:

Description: Is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta-receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of its effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta-receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals. The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type 3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms." Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol. Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta-receptor down regulation, which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta-receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives.

Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again. With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience.

If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterol’s results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion. Effective Dose: 80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful.

Street Price: $.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box.

Effective Dose: A few drops under the tongue and not used for but a few weeks at a time.

Street Price: Not a clue. Too hard to find. Even if I could find it I would not buy it.

cornfed · 12-17-2002, 07:56 AM

Also, IP has "superclen" .2g tabs (200mcg).

street price $35 for 25tabs

crackerjack414 · 12-17-2002, 07:51 PM

yup super clen is good, ther all other guys who make it. I personaly dont care for IP products

cornfed · 12-18-2002, 08:06 AM

Well, I'll get back to ya on my final opinion about it in january

**gopro** · 12-20-2002, 10:19 AM

ECA gives better and more consistent results, especially over the long term. Go with ECA.

Martin Smolinsk · 12-20-2002, 01:45 PM

What is ECA? I dont know why you are afriad of clen/spiropent/. I used it in my first cycle and Im gonna use it again. It fantastic. No problem with it. But I have to admit that the side effects are more "visible" than those of steroids.

Martin

**gopro** · 12-21-2002, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Smolinsk
What is ECA? I dont know why you are afriad of clen/spiropent/. I used it in my first cycle and Im gonna use it again. It fantastic. No problem with it. But I have to admit that the side effects are more "visible" than those of steroids.

Martin

ECA= ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin Stack these 3 together in a ratio of 25mg E/250mg C/325mg A (aspirin is optional) for a potent fat burner.

Nobody is "afraid" of clen...it is just that some people don't respond well to it, some people can't stand the side effects, and, its effects wear off after 2-3 weeks. ECAs effects actually get better over time.

Some people actually stack ECA and clen (dangerous), or they cycle between the two. Over the short term, clen is more potent, but over 8-12 weeks, I feel ECA is superior.

Martin Smolinsk · 12-22-2002, 05:20 AM

Thats what I wanted to do, to combine clen, effedrine, caffeine and aspirine. Do you think I should not do it?

**gopro** · 12-22-2002, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Smolinsk
Thats what I wanted to do, to combine clen, effedrine, caffeine and aspirine. Do you think I should not do it?

All of them at the same time? Can be dangerous as there will be a tremendous amount of CNS stimulation and possible overload on the heart. I know people that do this, but I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND IT! Better to cycle between the two!

Snake_Eyes · 12-22-2002, 04:31 PM

Just throw in some DNP and he'll be all set.

**gopro** · 12-22-2002, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
Just throw in some DNP and he'll be all set.

Well, I know we don't agree much, but here...yes we do...

Martin Smolinsk · 12-23-2002, 11:45 AM

Gopro, and what about that combination without efedrine? Cool, isnt it? I dont want to be exposed to big troubles.

Martin

**gopro** · 12-23-2002, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Smolinsk
Gopro, and what about that combination without efedrine? Cool, isnt it? I dont want to be exposed to big troubles.

Martin

There is a synergistic affect between ephdrine and caffeine. I don't believe the same synergism occurs with clen and caffeine, so the effect would simply be additive. I personally would use clen for 2 weeks then ECA for 2 weeks, back and forth.

Martin Smolinsk · 12-24-2002, 03:21 AM

Hmmmmmmmmm, I will think about it. Thanks.

Well, Id like to ask you one more question. I can measure my blod pressure whenever I want. And I have some problems with it. It shows 160/80 /I hope these numbers are the same in the US/ which I think is raised, isnt it? Now Im off the first cycle. During the cycle it was raised, too. But now it is raised again, but the point is that I feel really OK, no problems with my head, training, evrythings all right. I was wondering whether it could be due to drinking coffe. Two teaspoons of coffe before every training. Should I not drink it? Or what should I do? Now, Im starting my second cycle with metandienon, depo-test and deca in january and I know it will be raised even more. Can you give me an advice?
How can I influence my blood pressure - to be higher or lower?

Thanks a lot and MERRY XMAS!

Martin

**gopro** · 12-26-2002, 07:19 AM

Normal BP is 120/80. I don't like that you are using stimulants and will be using steroids as well while having a raised BP. All stimulants raise BP and steroids that cause water retention can raise BP even more. Some guys will use diuretics to lower water retention, which may lower your BP, and others will use a drug called Catapres in order to lower BP. Also a low salt diet can help. Be very careful my friend...high BP is to be taken seriously!

Martin Smolinsk · 12-27-2002, 11:57 AM

Thanks gopro, Ive never had problems with my blood pressure until I measured it a few days ago. I dont know whether I should go to a doctor..........because as I said, I feel all right. Really. What you said about steroids and BP - I know that, no news for me, but thanks. Low salt diet is what Im trying to focus on and what about eating garlic? Does it help?

**gopro** · 12-27-2002, 04:51 PM

Garlic is very healthy. Whether it will have any significant effects on your BP is a question. You certainly can try and see!

Martin Smolinsk · 12-28-2002, 08:29 AM

Yeah, and what about the drinking coffee? Should I stop it??? Or maybe restrict?
And the most important question: When shall I see results (lowered BP) if I start eating garlic, no salt, less coffee? Actually Ive already started.
BTW: 150/80 today, good, isnt it? :-)

**gopro** · 12-30-2002, 08:23 AM

Coffee would only cause a temporary rise in BP, but I'd say cut it out. Start taking some precautions and results should come fast...unless there is some problem you are not aware of.

Martin Smolinsk · 12-30-2002, 11:31 AM

OK, Im gonna restrict drinking coffee only before each training of squats and deadlifts it means 2 times in 6 days.

And thank you very much I will tell you how Im going on during my second cycle which Im starting next week

Martin

**gopro** · 12-31-2002, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Smolinsk
OK, Im gonna restrict drinking coffee only before each training of squats and deadlifts it means 2 times in 6 days.

And thank you very much I will tell you how Im going on during my second cycle which Im starting next week

Martin

Martin Smolinsk · 01-01-2003, 03:46 AM

Gopro, one more question comes to my mind: what about raised BP and eating eggs? I eat 7 egg whites and 4 yolks every day before I go to sleep. ..............???

**gopro** · 01-01-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Smolinsk
Gopro, one more question comes to my mind: what about raised BP and eating eggs? I eat 7 egg whites and 4 yolks every day before I go to sleep. ..............???

Only problem with eggs is that they are high in sodium.

12-16-2002, 08:49 PM	#1
CRASHMAN SoCal. Stud Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: in a box on a corner near you Posts: 10,081 Photos: 3	Clen vs. ECA BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com pros? cons? what works better? (i know clens dead about 2 weeks then you have to take 2 off) is it really worth it to find a dealer? what persevers mass better? just general knowlege i need before i try somethin and wiast money on it how much clen would i need? how much comes in a box? trusted brands? Last edited by CRASHMAN : 12-17-2002 at 12:29 AM.
	230_225_220_215_210_205_200_195_190_185_180 \|----\|----\|----\|----\|----\|----\|----\|----\|---\|----\| <- that way about 20 more pounds!

12-17-2002, 02:41 AM	#3
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,948 Photos: 1	Crash, I'm older than you and I wont touch clen, no reason too! Are you actually considering it at all? Unless your seriously seriously overweight, which I'm doubting, I would not even give it a thought at your age, or at mine.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

12-17-2002, 02:43 AM	#4
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,948 Photos: 1	Clenbuterol: Description: Is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta-receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of its effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta-receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals. The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type 3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms." Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol. Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta-receptor down regulation, which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta-receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives. Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again. With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience. If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterol’s results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion. Effective Dose: 80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful. Street Price: $.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box. Effective Dose: A few drops under the tongue and not used for but a few weeks at a time. Street Price: Not a clue. Too hard to find. Even if I could find it I would not buy it.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

12-17-2002, 07:56 AM	#5
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	Also, IP has "superclen" .2g tabs (200mcg). street price $35 for 25tabs
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

12-18-2002, 08:06 AM	#7
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	Well, I'll get back to ya on my final opinion about it in january
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

12-16-2002, 09:32 PM	#2
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	they are both beta 2 antagonisits i preffer clen myself

12-17-2002, 07:51 PM	#6
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	yup super clen is good, ther all other guys who make it. I personaly dont care for IP products

12-20-2002, 10:19 AM	#8
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,465	ECA gives better and more consistent results, especially over the long term. Go with ECA.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

12-20-2002, 01:45 PM	#9
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	What is ECA? I dont know why you are afriad of clen/spiropent/. I used it in my first cycle and Im gonna use it again. It fantastic. No problem with it. But I have to admit that the side effects are more "visible" than those of steroids. Martin

12-22-2002, 05:20 AM	#11
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Thats what I wanted to do, to combine clen, effedrine, caffeine and aspirine. Do you think I should not do it?

12-22-2002, 04:31 PM	#13
Snake_Eyes Real American Hero Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nevada Posts: 221	Just throw in some DNP and he'll be all set.

12-23-2002, 11:45 AM	#15
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Gopro, and what about that combination without efedrine? Cool, isnt it? I dont want to be exposed to big troubles. Martin

12-24-2002, 03:21 AM	#17
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Hmmmmmmmmm, I will think about it. Thanks. Well, Id like to ask you one more question. I can measure my blod pressure whenever I want. And I have some problems with it. It shows 160/80 /I hope these numbers are the same in the US/ which I think is raised, isnt it? Now Im off the first cycle. During the cycle it was raised, too. But now it is raised again, but the point is that I feel really OK, no problems with my head, training, evrythings all right. I was wondering whether it could be due to drinking coffe. Two teaspoons of coffe before every training. Should I not drink it? Or what should I do? Now, Im starting my second cycle with metandienon, depo-test and deca in january and I know it will be raised even more. Can you give me an advice? How can I influence my blood pressure - to be higher or lower? Thanks a lot and MERRY XMAS! Martin

12-26-2002, 07:19 AM	#18
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,465	Normal BP is 120/80. I don't like that you are using stimulants and will be using steroids as well while having a raised BP. All stimulants raise BP and steroids that cause water retention can raise BP even more. Some guys will use diuretics to lower water retention, which may lower your BP, and others will use a drug called Catapres in order to lower BP. Also a low salt diet can help. Be very careful my friend...high BP is to be taken seriously!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

12-27-2002, 11:57 AM	#19
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Thanks gopro, Ive never had problems with my blood pressure until I measured it a few days ago. I dont know whether I should go to a doctor..........because as I said, I feel all right. Really. What you said about steroids and BP - I know that, no news for me, but thanks. Low salt diet is what Im trying to focus on and what about eating garlic? Does it help?

12-27-2002, 04:51 PM	#20
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,465	Garlic is very healthy. Whether it will have any significant effects on your BP is a question. You certainly can try and see!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

12-28-2002, 08:29 AM	#21
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Yeah, and what about the drinking coffee? Should I stop it??? Or maybe restrict? And the most important question: When shall I see results (lowered BP) if I start eating garlic, no salt, less coffee? Actually Ive already started. BTW: 150/80 today, good, isnt it? :-)

12-30-2002, 08:23 AM	#22
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,465	Coffee would only cause a temporary rise in BP, but I'd say cut it out. Start taking some precautions and results should come fast...unless there is some problem you are not aware of.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

12-30-2002, 11:31 AM	#23
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	OK, Im gonna restrict drinking coffee only before each training of squats and deadlifts it means 2 times in 6 days. And thank you very much I will tell you how Im going on during my second cycle which Im starting next week Martin

01-01-2003, 03:46 AM	#25
Martin Smolinsk Martinmax Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Slovakia Posts: 194	Gopro, one more question comes to my mind: what about raised BP and eating eggs? I eat 7 egg whites and 4 yolks every day before I go to sleep. ..............???