Thread: 1st cycle

looks fine to me but im no expert im about to start my first one as well and its very close to yours im curious to see what other people say though good luck!

Originally Posted by sofargone561

Sunday:10mg Aromasin
Monday:10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Tuesday:10mg Aromasin/300mg test E
Wednesday:10mg Aromasin
Thursday:10mg Aromasin
Friday:10mg Aromasin/500IU HCG
Saturday:10mg Aromasin/300MG test E

repeat for 10-12 weeks?? i see a lot of 12 week cycles but i was learning more twards 10? what do you guys think?

PCT'S:
days 1-16 1000iu HCG every other day

100/100/100/50 Clomid
1000mg Vitamin c 3x's daily
10mg creatine daily

ANYTHING ELSE? i want to be healthy keep as much as the gans as possible minamize the sides as much a possible!

added to this would be potien, multi vitamins, fish oil, and joint health products on and off cycle. is their anything i should add or could add to help gains/ keep gains and minamize sides?

my goal is to bulk up but any fat loss and cutting is a plus.

im 6'2' about 200-205 pounds havnt weighed myself in a wile
my guess would be maybe 12-15% bf my goal is a nice 10 nothing crazy here just wanna get gains and look good.

It will be a minute before i start this as i have to buy small parts of it at a time becuase off all my bills are killing me right now also i havnt been able to workout for a while and probably wont be able to for a little bit long becuase i broke up a fight between my two friends and got my ribs fucked up so i have time to locate everything i need and hopefully ill be able to find everything and not spend an arm and leg.

Ive also thought about doin this cycle
WEEK1-5:600mg test E weekly
WEEK6-8:800mg test E weekly
WEEK8-10:1000mg test E weekly

what do you guys think?


any help/comments/suggestion would help and be apreachiated. Criteque welcome but please no bashers im very new to this stuff especially injectables and did my research and figured the next stop is talking to people with experiance.

i wil be honest im nervous about my first cycle so please help me out here

Persoanlly I think your going way overboard for your first cycle.

Why would you even consider running a gram of test on your 1st cycel??!

Stick to a max of 500mg per week. More is NOT nessisary.

The HCG is way to high for this cycle. Most dont even run HCG for 1st test cycles under 14 weeks. If its 10 week, I wouldnt even bother. If you MUST use HCG use 1000mg/week max.

And whats with the Aromasin? are you gyno prone? Aromasin is stronger than l-dex and you run the risk of lowering e too low unless you know how you react to test is the first place...

To sum it up this is what I think you need ur first cycle:

500mg/week Test E - 12 weeks

.5mg L-dex EOD - 12 weeks

PCT - 2 weeks after last shot 100/100/50/50 Clomi 40/40/20/20 nolva

I think your over complicating a simply first cycle.

thats just what ive pieced together from reading some articles and what others have told me. thanks for the help i probably am complicating my first cycle i just wanna make sure i do everything right id hate to fuck myself up because i was to scared to look like an idiot and ask questions

Originally Posted by Ace5high

PCT - 2 weeks after last shot 100/100/50/50 Clomi 40/40/20/20 nolva
.

are you saying i take both clomid and nolva or one or the other?

Originally Posted by sofargone561

are you saying i take both clomid and nolva or one or the other?

Both,and only do 500mg of test for your first, 1 gram is out of the question,, 500mg is good for your first couple of cycle as a matter of fact.

Originally Posted by cottonmouth

Both,and only do 500mg of test for your first, 1 gram is out of the question,, 500mg is good for your first couple of cycle as a matter of fact.

great thanks for clearing all that up =)

Originally Posted by cottonmouth

Both,and only do 500mg of test for your first, 1 gram is out of the question,, 500mg is good for your first couple of cycle as a matter of fact.

Correct. Absolutely no reason to run test over 500mg your first bout. Clomi and Nolva are run together for 4 weeks or better yet get blood test after 4 weeks of PCT to see if you need to continue it.

Just keep it simple. I'd skip HCG for first cycle.

I'd run 500-600mg/wk Test E for 12 weeks with .5-1mg arimidex ED during cycle and 12.5-25mg aromasin ED for PCT.

For PCT 100/100/50/50 clomid. No need for Nolva.

Bro, keep this cycle simple, no need for all the hcg. And run test e at 600 mg a week and you will be good, take some clomid for your pct, I love arimidex cause I'm very sensitive with my gyno and never have a issue with dex. Also you should run some tbol in there for the first few weeks. Love that shit.

Honestly think you should keep test between 300-400/week. People tend to throw out the ol 500-600mg/week because they always hear others saying it.... So heres the thing.

Your going to make large gains with just 300mg/week if you have not run test before. This will do 2 things #1 allow you to be able to judge your tolerance to side effects like water retention and Gyno. #2 Starting low means you can always increase the dose allowing you to gain more in future cycles. Dont just do 500-600mg/week because thats the number people hear and read about. Use your common sense and start slow, you can always go bigger and more later on in future cycles 500/600 is typically just the parrot response.

He will make better gains at 600mg vs 300mg. Sides from test are pretty non-existent if you use correct amount of AI and acne med.

Originally Posted by StoneColdNTO

The following is part of a thread by heavyiron over at MD, the full abstact can be found here..Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone’s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone Enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and IGF-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for IGF-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and IGF-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

IGF-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.


If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.

Good stuff here