Thread: Short blast cycles

Yeah, buddy I've read some good articles about short cycles. However most people are very sceptic about them.
I will start series of short cycles in September. On 4-5wks ON, 4wks OFF basis.

Test P as a base + other fast acting inj or oral.

I think it could work out well.. perhaps even better than long 12-16week cycles for recovery.

Originally Posted by Dannie

Yeah, buddy I've read some good articles about short cycles. However most people are very sceptic about them.
I will start series of short cycles in September. On 4-5wks ON, 4wks OFF basis.

Test P as a base + other fast acting inj or oral.

Nice.
What do u think about cycle that I've outlined? Maybe 2nd would be same as 1st?

When Ben Johnson got caught breaking the Canadian Olympic Teams drug protocol in the Olympics there was a 2 week long 8 hour a day TV show in Canada on how the worlds top track teams use steroids. It was called the Dubin Inquiry. Dr. Jamie Estaphan, Team Canada's drug guru and Charlie Francis the coach of team Canada (which has had 3 different world record holders in the 100 meters) shared the protocol they used for their athletes. It was protocol perfected by the russians and eastern europeans.

In a nutshell the offseason was 3 weeks on Test Suspension and Stanozolol. hit the weights extremely hard....go off for 3 weeks and try to retain 90% of the strength gains from the cycle. Then hit it again and again. Always trying to solidify the gains made on drugs and make them real. It was a stair step approach to making gains and then making them your own.

That information certainly shaped how I utilized drugs while helping bodybuilders train and wincompetitions in the 80's and 90's.

The theory was that you were never on long enough to shut down, get sides or burn out receptors. Drugs were a supplement to intense training and perfect nutrition. Gains had to be real or they were insignificant.

I see lots of guys on here running 750mg to 1000mg of test for 12 to 16 weeks plus a ton of other drugs. Nothing made me happier than seeing those guys show up all distended with swollen nipples and nice acne against my guys.

Night Wolf....Your on the right track.

this made me curious

Originally Posted by Night_Wolf

Nice.
What do u think about cycle that I've outlined? Maybe 2nd would be same as 1st?

1-4 T Prop 150mg /eod
1-4 Winstrol 30mg /ed
1-4 Arimidex 0.5mg /eod
1-4 HCG 500IU /e 5 days
5-7 PCT (Clomid)
1-4 Liv52

Spot on. I will be running Test P and Winny as well as my 2nd short cycle, 1st will be Test P and NPP.
Also you will need 5000IU of HCG so you may as well run it at 500IU e4d for 6 weeks. If you choose to run it for 6 weeks run Armidex for 6 weeks as well.

Not my own writing but very good info on short cycles here.

As many of you already know I have had decent success with short cycles. I, along with some of my friends and clients, have had good results with cycles as short as 14 days long.

I no longer do cycles longer than 4-6 weeks as I am simply sick of the sides that build up after 4-6 weeks and I no longer feel comfortable walking around with a shitty lipid profile for months on end.


WHAT QUALIFIES AS SHORT

"In my book" any cycle 6 weeks or less is a short cycle. Personally I now think that 4 weekers give the best gains to sides ratio.

You can do 2 weeks "on" 2-4 weeks "off"
You can do 4 weeks on and 4-6 weeks off
Or you can do 6 weeks on with 6-8 weeks off.
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off, year round, gives excellent results and you are only "on" half the year.

WHY DO THEM

#1.
If you are one of those bro's that does longer cycles, of say 10-12 weeks or more, and then wisely takes an equal amount of time off, and you are tired of loosing so much of your gains post cycle due to the length of the time off...the yoyo affect....then why not try doing shorter cycles with their corresponding shorter off times...... obviously you don't gain as much with a short cycle but then again you don't loose as much post cycle either due to the shorter off time.

Now... over say a year of doing 4 on 4-6 off you are gong to get very similar results as that seen from doing longer cycles of say 12 "on" 12-14 off but with less yo-yo affect and less sides. In fact most of my clients that do 4-6 week cycles tell me that they are actually getting better gains over a years use.

#2.
Do them to have less of a negative impact on ones lipid profile and to have less total time per year with a poor lipid profile.

Some of you may not know that androgens, taken at even newbie bodybuilding doses, alter everyones lipid profile. Everyone sees their hdl(good cholesterol) take a huge "nosedive" and most also see their ldl(bad cholesterol) go up to some degree but not to the same degree that hdl decreases. Generally hdl decreases 40-70% in as little as 2 weeks and ldl increases an average of 36% in 4 weeks. In my experience this reduction in hdl puts all bro's hdl WELL below the pathological minimum of 35. My ldl does not elevate above the pathological level of 160 but others see ldl's well above 160.
Lipid levels typically normalize within 3-10 weeks after discontinuation.
( details taken from article in Medscape)

Here are my "numbers" from the last long cycle of test 750mg/week and tren 75mg/day. A powerful stack but not a huge dose of gear. It's been as bad with less powerful gear and lower doses. Blood work done after week 7.

Total cholesterol 181...not bad.
ldl 160...not very good
hdl 11.6! CRAPPY big time
Cholesterol to hdl ratio 15.7 to 1...ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! This is when my doc and I had a COW at the same time.
Triglycerides 50...good.

Here is my "baseline" without gear

Chol 152...great
ldl 106...great
hdl 45-48...good
tri 50..good
chol to hdl ratio....3.16 to 1.....good

.As far as I and my endochrinologist are concerned this lipid altering side of gear use is the single worst side of steroid use.
In as little as a week hdl decreases. Personally my brother-in-law and I really see a huge decrease after about 3 weeks "on' cycle. The last time I did a long cycle my total cholesterol to hdl ratio plummeted to 15 to 1!...My doc had a cow and so did I!!

According to current medical thought ones total cholesterol to hdl ratio is the single greatest LIPID indicator for assessing ones chances of developing heart disease. Men with low total cholesterols but with crappy hdl have gone on to develope heart disease WITHOUT ANY OTHER RISK FACTORS such as smoking, or diabetes.

Ideally you want an hdl of at least 40 and a ratio of 3.5 to 1 or better.

My mentor, the late great MIKE MENTZER died of heart disease at age 50 and I know for a fact that ARNOLD had more than valve surgery(I am an operating room nurse as well as a trainer)


#3.
Do them to decrease liver stress.
Generally long cycles with non 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver but sometimes one can get into trouble. The short cycle allows for less total stress on the liver and the frequent "off" times allows the liver to regenerate very well.
Generally a healthy liver can take pretty big "hits" for short periods of time without any problem ...it is long term stress that cause liver damage(as seen with elevated GGT enzyme levels)

#4.
Do them if you want to "tone down" your use of steroids.

#5.
Do them if you do NOT want to use HCG during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. HPTA shut down will be complete in as little as a week "on" but testicualr atrophy is minimal due to the short length of this shut down. This then allows for better HPTA recovery post cycle.
It is small testes that makes HPTA recovery slow because GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH from the pituitary normally rebound pretty rapidly.
* There will be some testicular shrinkage in any cycle so if you do 4 "on" 4 "off" for several cycles in a row then it would be a good idea to use hcg at 500iu's every 3rd day while "on" to prevent testicular atrophy...the 4 weeks "off" may not be enough time to allow for complete testicular recovery and over the span of several cycles this may impact your HPTA recovery.

You certainly can use hcg while on any short cycle to prevent any testicular shrinkage if you like but it really isn't necessary.

#6.
Do them if you do not want to see much in the way of water retention and do not want to use an estrogen inhibitor or an ace inhibitor(diuretic)


#7.
Do them if you get high blood pressure and do not wish to use the above mentioned ancillaries.

#8. Do them if you are sick of androgenic sides such as ance, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss(if prone to hair loss) etc etc.
Androgen sides come on for two reason...dose used and especially length of time "on". I do not get acne until after 4 weeks on and then I get hammered.....and I hate it.

#9.
Do them if you are tired of walking around with high estrogen levels for months on end and do not wish to or cannot afford to use an estrogen inhibitor. High estrogen levels are NOT good for the prostate at all!

You certainly can use estrogen inhibitors if you like if you want to keep estrogen levels down and experience very little water retention.


WHY NOT TO DO THEM

Obviously if you compete at a high level then short cycles are probably not the best for you, BUT I think they are the best way to use steroids for the vast majority of bro's.
Top competitors need to be "on" either all the time or most of the time....thats unfortunate but usually necessary in order to get freaky huge which is now needed to win big.


WHAT TO EXPECT

If one is not yet at ones natural maximum level of muscular developement then very good gains can be seen of up to 15 pounds and 10 pounds kept after a 4 weeker...as long as you train correctly as a natural post cycle.

If one is off gear and has dropped to ones natural max then a short cycle can add up to 10 pounds. If you take no more than 6 weeks off after each four weeker you will not loose much...then in each successive cycle you can still gain but the gains will be smaller the further you get from your natural max.

Those that are off cycle and have not yet shrunk down to their natural max can still gain well with successive short cycles but don't expect to win at the national level.

One of the things I like about short cycles is the short time "off" between cycles.......muscular atrophy is minimal during the off time and you are allowing for frequent bodily normalization after minimal time "on". LESS SIDES IN GENERAL, LESS TIME WITH A SHITTY LIPID PROFILE and LESS MUSCLE LOSS POST CYCLE.

NOTE: You cannot get "freaky big" in this way...that takes very big doses and spending most of the year, for years on end, on steroids as well as GH and slin, and that my freinds is simply not a good idea unless you plan to make your living as a bodybuilder.

Getting pretty darn big in small steps is a safer way to use gear IMHO...and it messes less with one head too. Some guys really get depressed during "off" times of 12 or more weeks waiting to start their next cycle.


GEAR CHOICE and RATIONAL

The idea behind short cycles is to "get in" quick, hit the androgen receptors hard, get some gains, and then get the hell out as fast as possible so as to minimize sides. So with this in mind one should only use orals and rapid acting/clearing injectables. The limited time "on' simply doesn't justify the use of the "slower" esterfied injectables like deca etc. Also, these same roids take too long to clear the system and that too goes against the philosophy of short cycles.

The gear choosen should be powerful for best results and doses need to be decent as well in order to get the most from the short time on.
You can use mild gear like anavar but your results will be reduced.

BEST Gear

d-bol
test prop
tren
anadrol

BEST stacks.

Personally I think d-bol/tren cannot be beat. There is only one roid that is better than testosterone, in the short run, IMHO and that is d-bol...too bad it's 17aa.

test prop/tren
test prop/tren/winny
test prop/anadrol
test prop/d-bol


STACKS AND DOSE EXAMPLES

I like tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).

Some guys think I am nuts for recommending tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than tren.

The only issue with tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)


Novice... tren/D-BOL....

tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day in 4 divided doses per day(one right before bed) for 4 weeks.
Two days after last tren do clomid at 200-300mg on day one in divided doses and then 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg a day for 3 more weeks. OR...Nolva at 80mg on day one in divided doses followed by 40mg/day for a week and then 20mg/day for 3 more weeks.
Have nolva or clomid on hand for gyno protection.

More advanced...200 of tren on day one as a front load to get tren levels up pronto and then 75mg/day for 4 weeks. D-bol 50mg/day in 4 divided doses for 4 weeks. SERMS as above

Novice...test PROP/tren

test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. Nolva on hand.

more advanced.....test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-200mg/day for 4 weeks. tren 75mg/day. An estrogen inhibitor might be needed.

MEGA STACK... ADVANCED
test prop 300mg on day one and then 100mg /day for 4 weeks, d-bol 50mg/day and tren 75mg/day......LOOK THE HELL OUT! Have the nolva on the tip of your tongue he he he ...arimidex at 1-1.5mg/day would be wise even for the short 4 week period.

SINGLE STEROIDS

D-bol really is an unreal roid and as I said it is even better than test in the short run IMHO.
One can get very nice results from d-bol alone at 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks. Don't take it for longer than 6 weeks though as it is a 17aa roid and as such is somewhat hard on the liver.
D-bol for 6 weeks at a time was a favorite cycle length in the old days and produced excellent gains.

test prop can be run all by itself at 75-200mg/day with great results too.



OKAY.....BUT YOU SAY YOU ONLY HAVE sust, EQ, cyp etc

Long chain esterfied roids and tests are not the best choice for the shorty, as explained above, but they can work pretty well IF you do pretty large front loads. FRONT LOADS simply help to get blood hormone levels up more quickly.

ie: Intermediate user doing test cyp ...do a FRONT LOAD of at least 800mg on day one...then 2 days latter do 400mg and then every 4h day do another 400.
400 every 4th day is equal to 700mg per week.

Run the cyp for 4-6 weeks and you'll get some decent gains from it.

* Best to use tren with this cycle....or d-bol (1 mg of arimidex/day if using d-bol and test)

* After the last shot of cyp you are going to have to wait for a couple weeks for androgen levels to drop before you start PCT and this is akin to lengthening the cycle.



BLOOD LIPIDS

You might want to consider taking the worlds best hdl improver while "on" cycle...NIACIN!
Nothing even comes close to niacins hdl incresing powers. Personally it has not helped my hdl while "on' nor has it helped my brother-in-laws, but you might see some level of improvement(don't expect a great improvement though since androgens do such a great job of messing with hepatic lipaze)

Nicain comes in three forms...regular, extended release(Niaspan) and non flush niacin. Niaspan is the best and works well at 1500mg/day taken once daily. Regular niacin works well at 600-1000mg three times a day but it gives a nasty ichy flush for a while after taking each pill.
Non flush works fairly well at 2-3 grams a day but not as good as the others IMHO.


Use nicain while "off" for sure as it will rapidly improve your shitty hdl level.
NOTE*** niacin can be hard on the liver so never use it with acutane which is hard on the liver. You really should have liver panels done if you use niacin for more than 6 weeks and be followed by a doctor(Swale would be good) especially if you are on steroids as well.

ENTER POLICOSANOL

DrVeejay11(real doctor) introduced me to another great lipid protector/improver and it too raises hdl BUT BONUS...it lowers ldl too.. and it's not liver toxic at all so you could use this stuff all the time with no worries.
Do a search at www.medscape.com for abstracts on POLICOSANOL.


I recommed that all be followed by a doctor while on steroids or at the very least educate yourself about the sides of steroid use and how to avoid the pitfalls by following yourself with blood work at labs that do not require a docs script(especially liver panels... and psa for us older guys) And guys at a minimum also watch your blood pressure while on gear at your local drug store monitoring station....keep the BP under 140 over 90 if you can especailly if you are "on" for months on end.


Best of gains and health to you all.

^^ very good reading

I only do short burst cycles.
But I dont have an alternative, because of the job.

The best I found was a 4 week cycle. Ofcourse followed by PCT.

Test prop/Tren Ace/Tbol cycle.

This is doing a good job at changing the body comp.

I like these cycles. I ran a lot of 4 on 4 off cycles with athletes. Often doing two mass oriented cycles followed by a real hard cut for 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. You can hit the dosages a little harder since the duration is shorter. So easy to stay nutritionally focused for shorter phases of training. Keeps it fresh and exciting all the time. Easier on the joints as well. 16 weeks of full bore strength and mass training can fry elbows, hips, shoulders...low back. you name it.

I admit my knowledge of proper use of AI and PCT has been greatly enhanced by being on this forum. Us old schoolers had to be more cautious with dosages and durations as sliding off and keeping gains was far more difficult without access to PCT gear and the knowledge to use it.

During the 4 weeks off

During the 4 weeks off hit creatine and preworkout pump enhancers to keep getting a good pump through the off weeks.

Originally Posted by Dogoa12

I only do short burst cycles.
But I dont have an alternative, because of the job.

The best I found was a 4 week cycle. Ofcourse followed by PCT.

Test prop/Tren Ace/Tbol cycle.

This is doing a good job at changing the body comp.

How long is your PCT and what do you use?

Originally Posted by Dannie

Spot on. I will be running Test P and Winny as well as my 2nd short cycle, 1st will be Test P and NPP.
Also you will need 5000IU of HCG so you may as well run it at 500IU e4d for 6 weeks. If you choose to run it for 6 weeks run Armidex for 6 weeks as well.

Yeah thx. I forgot to write that.

I like your replies

Thats a great post Minimal!

I'd add Test Supension and TBol into the gear list.
There is a great post somehere on here by Heavyiron on Test Suspension.
I personally don't find Test Suspension as painful as real prop. I put a lot of guys on stage using Test Suspension.

Test Suspension, Winny and TBol.....nice short cycle. Quality gains.
I don't use UGL water based products.....I want HG for those.

I like Dog's Prop, Tren Ace, TBol blast as well!

I had a tough time keeping A50 gains on guys after 4 weeks. It's a very powerful drug...Blew guys up hard and crashed hard. I stopped using it in favor of TBol and DBol. Proper PCT may help to keep the gains but that stuff is really toxic. I know guys that took the real brown bottle, red label Anadrol50 and started to see blood in their stool in less than two weeks.

But then again Dianabol and then Methandrostenolone from europe used to come in little blue bottles with 100 little 5 mg tabs in it. 2 with BFast and 2 with supper would blow most guys up with just a little water retention and no other sides. You could slide right off it no problem. Who on here would ever dream of 20 mgs of DBol?

Originally Posted by Dogoa12

Test prop/Tren Ace/Tbol cycle..

Why tbol? Don't it take 3-5 weeks to feel anything off tbol? Id run dbol with an AI

I think anything less then eight weeks isn't worth it. Even a few weeks will shut you down, so you might as well get some bang for your buck. Eight on/eight cruise works well for a blast and cruise, IMHO.

Originally Posted by MDR

I think anything less then eight weeks isn't worth it. Even a few weeks will shut you down, so you might as well get some bang for your buck. Eight on/eight cruise works well for a blast and cruise, IMHO.

I think the duration of suppression also matters. There would be less testicular atrophy and degeneration of HPTA with shorter cycles. With fast acting compounds, I feel that 4-6 weeks is still very reasonable.

I have never experienced an oral that took 3 to 5 weeks to kick in. That was real.

Blast and cruise. Is that just not a nice way to say "I can never stop taking gear." I wonder if all the guys on here on TRT that have totally destroyed their own endocrine systems from long duration, high dose cycles with no time off wish they had experimented with some shorter cycles with faster acting gear and real down time.

I felt the exact same way as MDR years ago. And there are drug choices that 8 weeks would actually be a little too short. All I can say now is that I beat a lot of long cycle guys with athletes doing shorter duration cycles and busting ass between cycles to keep the gains.

There isn't only one way to get it done. Experiment a little. Find what works for you. The goal is to get the desired gain from a cycle with the lowest exposure to gear and the least amount of side effects as possible.

Or it could be the other Bodybuilder's goal....If your going to bury me in a box.....Make sure it's a big box!!

I agree completely Minimal!

Originally Posted by minimal

I think the duration of suppression also matters. There would be less testicular atrophy and degeneration of HPTA with shorter cycles. With fast acting compounds, I feel that 4-6 weeks is still very reasonable.

Shutdown is still a problem at 4-6 weeks, and to me stretching it out to 8 weeks is about right for a short cycle. You end up spending about as much time in PCT running 4-6 week cycles as you do on. Not the best way to go, I don't think. PCT is stressful on the system, too, and spending 1/2 the year in recovery sounds like a nightmare. I much prefer to run a longer cycle, do 4 weeks of PCT and spend some time off completely so everything recovers. The fact is, if you are either on or in PCT all the time, the body never gets a complete break. I also think that maintaining gains during this time is very possible with proper training and diet.

Originally Posted by MDR

Shutdown is still a problem at 4-6 weeks, and to me stretching it out to 8 weeks is about right for a short cycle. You end up spending about as much time in PCT running 4-6 week cycles as you do on. Not the best way to go, I don't think.

It's true that you will spend more time in PCT with shorter cycles, but the upside is that you will be able to jump back on another cycle quicker. At least in theory that is.

Originally Posted by minimal

It's true that you will spend more time in PCT with shorter cycles, but the upside is that you will be able to jump back on another cycle quicker. At least in theory that is.

I hear ya, I'm just not convinced that the theory works too well in practice. The idea of all that time spent in PCT worries me.

Originally Posted by MDR

I hear ya, I'm just not convinced that the theory works too well in practice. The idea of all that time spent in PCT worries me.

What aspects of PCT are that stressful to the body? Aren't we just blocking estrogen from pituitary gland to trigger FSH?

you guys know more about PCT than I do. Would there be the exact same PCT protocol required for a 4 week cycle as for a longer 8 to 12 week cycle?

Originally Posted by Mavrik

you guys know more about PCT than I do. Would there be the exact same PCT protocol required for a 4 week cycle as for a longer 8 to 12 week cycle?

In theory, you should be able to run shorter PCT with shorter cycles. But that may also depend on the individual and only way to know for sure is blood work.

yeah bloodwork is the key to all of it no doubt. It tells the truth. The Canadian track team was running 3 week cycles of winny and aq test because that eliminated the need to run pct altogether. So stretch it out to 4 weeks or 5 weeks and add an ai and some clomid. I know a couple National Level Canadian bodybuilders that won't touch hcg because it affects their nipples worse than gear. Everyones an individual....

IMO I have been cruising for some time, and I have run many "bump" cycles what I call them, If I weren't cruising I would hate to blast for 4 weeks, then pct and repeat each time.

But from my experience, I will cruise 4-6 weeks, then bump 4-6 weeks cruise 4-6 and repeat. Its been pretty effective thus far.

Old school.....what's an example of a cruise and a bump for you?