Thread: Question for the big boys.

Originally Posted by Evil Eagle

Ok guys, I am getting ready to run my first cycle which will be test e with a dbol kick. I had my blood work done and it came back as test 686, and estradiol 30.

My question is how much aromasin I should start out dosing with 600mg of test and 45mg of dbol since my estrogen is already on the high side anyway? Should I just start at 10mg and go from there like normal? Thanks for the input.

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Yes, you can start out with 10mg ED and jump to 20mg ED if necessary. I usually have to up my AI when I add d-bol to my test.

Originally Posted by GMO

Yes, you can start out with 10mg ED and jump to 20mg ED if necessary. I usually have to up my AI when I add d-bol to my test.

Thanks GMO!

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I have to run aromasin at 25 mg/day with dbol and test. and my estradiol was at 64.

Dbol fucked my shit up this run. But I was at a higher dose. Just be careful and keep an eye on things.

Originally Posted by SloppyJ

Dbol fucked my shit up this run. But I was at a higher dose. Just be careful and keep an eye on things.

what do you mean, "fucked my shit up." gyno? I had a hard time keeping my e2 in check w 50 mg/day of dbol.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I have to run aromasin at 25 mg/day with dbol and test. and my estradiol was at 64.

64 off cycle?!

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no, when running 25 mg/day of aromasin, my e2 was still 64. Just saying, watch it carefully and get bloodwork.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

no, when running 25 mg/day of aromasin, my e2 was still 64. Just saying, watch it carefully and get bloodwork.

Ohh ok. Who's aromasin were you using? PM me if you don't want to post it.

Sloppy, how much dbol were you running?

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EP's. I've also used researchstop and they "seemed" to be stronger. I can't make an exact comparison though. I was running more aas while on ep's.

25mg Aromasin daily is where I would start with your doses/compounds. You may need more so I would get labs 4 weeks into the cycle to check E2.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

EP's. I've also used researchstop and they "seemed" to be stronger. I can't make an exact comparison though. I was running more aas while on ep's.

Damn, that's what I've got. Hope it's not underdosed.

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Originally Posted by heavyiron

25mg Aromasin daily is where I would start with your doses/compounds. You may need more so I would get labs 4 weeks into the cycle to check E2.

Thanks heavy. Does aromasin kill your sex drive like letro?

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It isn't the actual drug that kills sex drive, it's the lowering of e2 too low. If you keep your e2 between 15-30 you should be fine. And I honestly believe that ep is accurately dosed, I just needed a bit more while running dbol. Heavy is the one who pointed this out to me as well.

Heavy, when you say you need more than 25 mg/day. do you mean taking 25 every 12 hours? or 50 mg every 24 hours?

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

It isn't the actual drug that kills sex drive, it's the lowering of e2 too low. If you keep your e2 between 15-30 you should be fine. And I honestly believe that ep is accurately dosed, I just needed a bit more while running dbol. Heavy is the one who pointed this out to me as well.

Heavy, when you say you need more than 25 mg/day. do you mean taking 25 every 12 hours? or 50 mg every 24 hours?

I didn't know that. This is a very informative thread!

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Originally Posted by Evil Eagle

Thanks heavy. Does aromasin kill your sex drive like letro?

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Low libido is not caused by specific aromatase inhibitors. It's usually a function of an incorrect ratio of E2 to Free T. At least in healthy men. Some men may have other issues so I assume a healthy male in my response.

If E2 gets too high or too low this may cause low libido. If Free T is low this will also cause low libido. Low Free T and low E2 is a disaster from a libido standpoint. Also, certain compounds tend to cause low libido like Nandrolones. However with your proposed cycle, correcting libido is likely very straight forward. Keep E2 above 15pg/ml and lower than 50pg/ml with Free T high. Keep in mind labs are just a snapshot therefore E2 may continue to rise the entire cycle. I prefer my E2 below 30pg/ml but not sure this is realistic with D-bol and Test.

Another factor is SHBG. If its too high free T gets bound so that would be good to see as well on your labs. High Prolactin can cause a longer refractory period between male orgasms also. Therefore, it is complicated but once you dial in these hormones a healthy male should have a good libido.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

It isn't the actual drug that kills sex drive, it's the lowering of e2 too low. If you keep your e2 between 15-30 you should be fine. And I honestly believe that ep is accurately dosed, I just needed a bit more while running dbol. Heavy is the one who pointed this out to me as well.

Heavy, when you say you need more than 25 mg/day. do you mean taking 25 every 12 hours? or 50 mg every 24 hours?

25mg Aromasin every 12 hours would be ideal since the half life of Aromasin is so short in males or individuals administering Testosterone. During the final weeks of contest prep I would advise these doses of Aromasin, as well as in guys experiencing sides from high estradiol.

I was taking 75mg dbol for a 1.5 weeks to experiment and see if it's worth it. Got a little gyno flare up so I stopped the dbol. At the time of the flare up I was on 25mg of EP's Aromasin ED. That seems to be really high to me. But from what Heavy just posted, maybe it's not. Maybe that shit is underdosed? Not really sure.

I started some nolva and letro to handle the gyno. It feels better today but it's not gone. I have a feeling it will take about a week for the dbol to clear then all will be well.

Aromasin

(Exemestane)


Aromasin is a steroidal aromatase inactivator used to lower circulating estrogen. It was developed to help fight breast cancer as estrogen plays a role in the growth of cancer cells. Aromasin binds irreversibly to the aromatase enzyme. This suppresses the conversion of androgens into estrogen. Circulating estrogen can be reduced by nearly 85% in women using Aromasin. A common misconception is that aromatase inhibition is similar in men than women. However in trials when males were administered 25mg of Aromasin daily, maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 hours. The reason for the difference may be related to the the much higher testosterone concentrations in young males than in postmenopausal women and the shorter half-life of exemestane in males. The terminal half-life in males (8.9 h) was considerably shorter than the published value of 27 h in females. This may be a basis for more frequent administration in men (or women administering testosterone) that want maximal E2 supression.

Aromasin acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition." In other words, Exemestane, by being structurally similar to the target of the enzymes, permanently binds to those enzymes, thereby preventing them from ever completing their task of converting androgens into estrogens. When we compare this mode of action against other AI’s the benefit becomes clear. Arimidex can unbind from the aromatase enzyme when you stop taking it but Aromasin will not therefore there is less chance of estrogen rebound with Aromasin.

Aromasin can be employed during a steroid cycle when aromatizing compounds such as testosterone are administered in order to control estrogen from getting out of control. During the course of a typical steroid cycle estrogen can rise quite high. Estrogen has been measured as much as 7 times higher than normal in men on steroids. This is excessive and can potentially cause water retention, gynecomastia (the formation of female breast tissue) or benign prostatic hyperplasia. Therefore in order to avoid these side effects estrogen must be controlled.

Aromasin not only lowers circulating estrogen and sex hormone binding globulin but it also increases free testosterone by a whopping 117%! Total testosterone increases about 60%. Check out the performance of Aromasin after just 10 days of treatment in males.

FIG. 1. Estrogen and androgen plasma levels after 10 d of daily exemestane (25 or 50 mg) in healthy young males (mean ± SD; n = 9–11). To convert to Systeme International units: estradiol, picomoles per liter (x3.671); estrone, picomoles per liter (x3.699); androstenedione, nanomoles per liter (*0.003492); and testosterone, nanomoles per liter (x0.03467).

Aromasin may be used during a steroid cycle with aromatizing compounds and during PCT to help keep the estrogen to testosterone balance in favor of testosterone. Out of all the medications to control estrogen, Aromasin seems to be the most well balanced. It raises testosterone similar to Arimidex and lowers estradiol about 10% better than arimidex in men and is likely to cause less estrogen rebound than Arimidex. Keep in mind that 50mg of Aromasin daily kept estradiol in the normal range for men so if you think using an aromatase inhibitor will crush estrogen too much this science supports the opposite. From the data I have read and my years of experience with this medication 25mg of Aromasin every other day is a good starting point on moderate doses of testosterone. If testosterone doses are raised then 25mg daily may be needed to control estrogen. Since either high and low estrogen can cause side effects such as low libido only labs can determine the appropriate dose of Aromasin.

Written by heavyiron

Just got my blood work back this week been cruising for 6 weeks Test levels 1025 and estradiol 12. I take armidex .5 EOD.

Originally Posted by vannesb

Just got my blood work back this week been cruising for 6 weeks Test levels 1025 and estradiol 12. I take armidex .5 EOD.

How do you feel w an e2 of 12? I found that I didn't like the teens, and preferred mid twenties.

Im thinking of using Epi oral and Test in the future...aromasin still advised?

Originally Posted by Ahrnold

Im thinking of using Epi oral and Test in the future...aromasin still advised?

Yes, test will aromatize to estrogen. 10mg ED would be a good place to start for you...

thanks