Thread: How to Keep Gains When Coming Off AAS

carry a good pct. workout,eat right

Originally Posted by Chrisotpherm

To help new member enthusiasts, please help explain.

That's a loaded question, as I am constantly learning better techniques to maintain gains. A solid PCT, of course. Training with less volume, but keeping weight heavy. Eating as much as possible. NO CARDIO!

And most recently, I have found peptides to be a God-send in respect to keeping gains. I am on week four of my PCT and have only lost 1lb. Here is my current regimen:

HCG blast 1000iu eod while test ester clears
Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
Vitamin C 3000mg ED (Cortisol Suppression)
GHRP-6 and CJC 1295 3x /day
IGF-1 DES 75mcg ED

I also believe that running hcg on cycle make a HUGE difference in recovery, as it has been much easier for me after starting this practice.

diet and most important is what did you gain on cycle..if your gains is water,then water will gone for sure..if you gain muscles,then you will save a lot of %!

Eat like you never have before
Good pct

Originally Posted by GMO

That's a loaded question, as I am constantly learning better techniques to maintain gains. A solid PCT, of course. Training with less volume, but keeping weight heavy. Eating as much as possible. NO CARDIO!

And most recently, I have found peptides to be a God-send in respect to keeping gains. I am on week four of my PCT and have only lost 1lb. Here is my current regimen:

HCG blast 1000iu eod while test ester clears
Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
Vitamin C 3000mg ED (Cortisol Suppression)
GHRP-6 and CJC 1295 3x /day
IGF-1 DES 75mcg ED

I also believe that running hcg on cycle make a HUGE difference in recovery, as it has been much easier for me after starting this practice.

GMO,
Your awesome! I know its a loaded question but am seeing a lot of new guys come here ready to come off cycle and know nothing about a PCT regime and freak out because of fear of sides, as they should be. It always helps when senior members as yourself, WP etc... chime in to help mentor the un-educated. I owe all reps here as soon as I get to a computer!


V/R
Chris

Originally Posted by World-Pharma.org

diet and most important is what did you gain on cycle..if your gains is water,then water will gone for sure..if you gain muscles,then you will save a lot of %!

^^^This is very true. One of the reasons my weight is staying up is because I stay very dry on cycle and keep water retention to a minimum.

Originally Posted by World-Pharma.org

diet and most important is what did you gain on cycle..if your gains is water,then water will gone for sure..if you gain muscles,then you will save a lot of %!

True, as for meds you may run Anavar or Primo tabs during last few weeks or as a bridge before PCT and then Clen during PCT.

Expect to lose 6-10 lbs due to water retention and increased glycogen storage acquired during cycle. Aside from that you will experience a drop in performance as your body adjusts. The first 8 weeks sucks, the next 8 weeks is better and the third 8 weeks you are getting to a level where you can make natural gains again. hCG duringg cycle helps a lot to help get over the hump when coming off. I do a fair amount of cario or more accurately athletic activity when I am off than when I am on. I feel the athletic life style helps get the body back in tune. If I go from a steroid induced 210 to an athletic 195 off cycle then I consider that just fine. 6-8 ls of water, another 3-4 lbs of glycogen storage loss, and a few lbs of fat and a little muscle loss gives and estimate of only about 2 lbs of real muscle lost. some people are under the impression that a 15 lb gain on cycle is pure muscle. This is not so. Most of it is increased glycogen storage and other water retention. The true gain in muscular mass is more along the lines of 3-5 lbs. So, if you go on at 190 and 12% BF, max out at 205, and you go off and 5 months later you are 193 at 12% BF then you have netted 3 solid lbs of muscle mass when all is said and done. If you thing that is a small amount of muscle go to the grocer and pick up a 3 lb flat of ground beef. That is how much beef you will have put on your body over an 8 month period. If you slowly creep up to an off cycle BW of 205 and an on BW of 220 with a fairly constant BF then that is a pretty good outcome. Adding a modest amount of peptides can help somewhat but in reality probably only aids in retaining some level of artifical amounts of water as supranatural levels of glycogen/creatine stores etc. However, I have no doubt that things like GHRPs help maintain a better recovery profile tha the more natural recovery. To smooth the recovery process hCG during cycle and a modest SERM use in the first 4-6 weeks off cycle should help.

Originally Posted by World-Pharma.org

diet and most important is what did you gain on cycle..if your gains is water,then water will gone for sure..if you gain muscles,then you will save a lot of %!

Bump, good point WP!


V/R
Chris

Originally Posted by Glycomann

Expect to lose 6-10 lbs due to water retention and increased glycogen storage acquired during cycle. Aside from that you will experience a drop in performance as your body adjusts. The first 8 weeks sucks, the next 8 weeks is better and the third 8 weeks you are getting to a level where you can make natural gains again. hCG duringg cycle helps a lot to help get over the hump when coming off. I do a fair amount of cario or more accurately athletic activity when I am off than when I am on. I feel the athletic life style helps get the body back in tune. If I go from a steroid induced 210 to an athletic 195 off cycle then I consider that just fine. 6-8 ls of water, another 3-4 lbs of glycogen storage loss, and a few lbs of fat and a little muscle loss gives and estimate of only about 2 lbs of real muscle lost. some people are under the impression that a 15 lb gain on cycle is pure muscle. This is not so. Most of it is increased glycogen storage and other water retention. The true gain in muscular mass is more along the lines of 3-5 lbs. So, if you go on at 190 and 12% BF, max out at 205, and you go off and 5 months later you are 193 at 12% BF then you have netted 3 solid lbs of muscle mass when all is said and done. If you thing that is a small amount of muscle go to the grocer and pick up a 3 lb flat of ground beef. That is how much beef you will have put on your body over an 8 month period. If you slowly creep up to an off cycle BW of 205 and an on BW of 220 with a fairly constant BF then that is a pretty good outcome. Adding a modest amount of peptides can help somewhat but in reality probably only aids in retaining some level of artifical amounts of water as supranatural levels of glycogen/creatine stores etc. However, I have no doubt that things like GHRPs help maintain a better recovery profile tha the more natural recovery. To smooth the recovery process hCG during cycle and a modest SERM use in the first 4-6 weeks off cycle should help.

Glyco, great information bro. Hopefully this will help junior and curious folks avoid bad mistakes.


V/R
Chris

Originally Posted by Glycomann

Expect to lose 6-10 lbs due to water retention and increased glycogen storage acquired during cycle. Aside from that you will experience a drop in performance as your body adjusts. The first 8 weeks sucks, the next 8 weeks is better and the third 8 weeks you are getting to a level where you can make natural gains again. hCG duringg cycle helps a lot to help get over the hump when coming off. I do a fair amount of cario or more accurately athletic activity when I am off than when I am on. I feel the athletic life style helps get the body back in tune. If I go from a steroid induced 210 to an athletic 195 off cycle then I consider that just fine. 6-8 ls of water, another 3-4 lbs of glycogen storage loss, and a few lbs of fat and a little muscle loss gives and estimate of only about 2 lbs of real muscle lost. some people are under the impression that a 15 lb gain on cycle is pure muscle. This is not so. Most of it is increased glycogen storage and other water retention. The true gain in muscular mass is more along the lines of 3-5 lbs. So, if you go on at 190 and 12% BF, max out at 205, and you go off and 5 months later you are 193 at 12% BF then you have netted 3 solid lbs of muscle mass when all is said and done. If you thing that is a small amount of muscle go to the grocer and pick up a 3 lb flat of ground beef. That is how much beef you will have put on your body over an 8 month period. If you slowly creep up to an off cycle BW of 205 and an on BW of 220 with a fairly constant BF then that is a pretty good outcome. Adding a modest amount of peptides can help somewhat but in reality probably only aids in retaining some level of artifical amounts of water as supranatural levels of glycogen/creatine stores etc. However, I have no doubt that things like GHRPs help maintain a better recovery profile tha the more natural recovery. To smooth the recovery process hCG during cycle and a modest SERM use in the first 4-6 weeks off cycle should help.

I always stay very dry on cycle, so my gains are never 15-20lbs (more like 7-8lbs), but most of it is actual muscle. I think that is why I retain a high percentage of what I gain. In the old days before I ran AI's, I would gain 20lbs and then lose more than half of it. Today, I prefer lean modest gains and being ripped year round...even on cycle.

here is a secret for u, the problem is u cant keep ur gains when coming off so what most people do they dont come off the hormones, they bridge or use some gh or other hormones but never come off, if u totally come of hormones u will lose a lot of ur gained muscle

these are all good reads

Originally Posted by Patmuscle

here is a secret for u, the problem is u cant keep ur gains when coming off so what most people do they dont come off the hormones, they bridge or use some gh or other hormones but never come off, if u totally come of hormones u will lose a lot of ur gained muscle

^^^That is not true. I was natty for nearly 5 years and kept a great deal of muscle from previous cycles. If your training routine and diet is dialed in, keeping gains will happen.

what will happen to jay cutler if he cut all the hormones flooding through his blood stream , i mean all the hormones (gh, roids, slim, igf, en other shit loads of peps) u really think he can hold that much muscle with his naturel test levels??? wrongggggggggggggg

Originally Posted by GMO

That's a loaded question, as I am constantly learning better techniques to maintain gains. A solid PCT, of course. Training with less volume, but keeping weight heavy. Eating as much as possible. NO CARDIO!

And most recently, I have found peptides to be a God-send in respect to keeping gains. I am on week four of my PCT and have only lost 1lb. Here is my current regimen:

HCG blast 1000iu eod while test ester clears
Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
Vitamin C 3000mg ED (Cortisol Suppression)
GHRP-6 and CJC 1295 3x /day
IGF-1 DES 75mcg ED

I also believe that running hcg on cycle make a HUGE difference in recovery, as it has been much easier for me after starting this practice.

Very nicely detailed answers.

Originally Posted by GMO

^^^That is not true. I was natty for nearly 5 years and kept a great deal of muscle from previous cycles.

That answers a question I have had for a long time. Thanks.

Jay cutler is well beyond his genetic limit so he's a completely different case. In terms of reasonable size limits, I doubt u can't hold onto gains following gmo's protocol.

Originally Posted by GMO

That's a loaded question, as I am constantly learning better techniques to maintain gains. A solid PCT, of course. Training with less volume, but keeping weight heavy. Eating as much as possible. NO CARDIO!

And most recently, I have found peptides to be a God-send in respect to keeping gains. I am on week four of my PCT and have only lost 1lb. Here is my current regimen:

HCG blast 1000iu eod while test ester clears
Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
Vitamin C 3000mg ED (Cortisol Suppression)
GHRP-6 and CJC 1295 3x /day
IGF-1 DES 75mcg ED

I also believe that running hcg on cycle make a HUGE difference in recovery, as it has been much easier for me after starting this practice.

Nice post as always GMO. Amazing the resemblance to my own system. Not too into peptides, but everything else is virtually identical. I think training with less volume and heavy weight while maintaining a solid diet is crucial. I think many people make the mistake of training with less weight and cutting back on food. Other than any water weight gained during cycle, you can hold onto your gains this way.

do not over train when you come off. Just because you were doing a million sets when you were on does not mean you can do it when you are off, ha ha. If you do you need A LOT more food.

Number one rule other than good PCT is keep your diet and training GOLDEN while realizing you gotta do it now without the juice.

I agree. I just finished up my cycle not that long ago and have increased calories and try to not to miss many days of training. As of now havent lost anything. It's been two weeks so only time will tell. A lot of great info and mentorship in here.


V/R
Chris

Originally Posted by Chrisotpherm

I just finished up my cycle not that long ago . . . As of now havent lost anything. It's been two weeks

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I was still gaining strength two weeks after last pin for my first cycle. You are not yet into the losing stage yet - just starting to get there.

Originally Posted by malfeasance

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I was still gaining strength two weeks after last pin for my first cycle. You are not yet into the losing stage yet - just starting to get there.

^^^Correct

You still have a lot of test in your system after only two weeks, bro. The crash doesn't usually happen until weeks 4-6, but if you do a solid PCT protocol, train and eat right, the crash can be minimal.