Thread: When to start HCG?

Why let atrophy set in? Run it from the first week at 500iu 2x weekly and you'll be good to go!

Originally Posted by SloppyJ

Why let atrophy set in? Run it from the first week at 500iu 2x weekly and you'll be good to go!

He didn't say what he was using. Atrophy doesn't start right away if hes going to be using test-e. When I run test-e I start on my 2nd week, but that's just me. I also only run 250iu x2 a week and bump it up for two weeks (500iu x2) before the last two weeks of a cycle. I have never had problems.

Originally Posted by Life

He didn't say what he was using. Atrophy doesn't start right away if hes going to be using test-e. When I run test-e I start on my 2nd week, but that's just me. I also only run 250iu x2 a week and bump it up for two weeks (500iu x2) before the last two weeks of a cycle. I have never had problems.

Using 250iu 2x a week puts your vial past it's reconstituted shelf life time if it's 5000iu. And the first week is negligible at best. But all of this is just my opinion. It just makes sense to me and it might not for others.

That is true. I generally use 1500iu's unless my source is out. I think a lot of it depends on the user. If you start to atrophy, start sooner. Going over 500iu x2 a week however will be a waste for most people.

Originally Posted by Life

That is true. I generally use 1500iu's unless my source is out. I think a lot of it depends on the user. If you start to atrophy, start sooner. Going over 500iu x2 a week however will be a waste for most people.

Not true. 500x2 is the minimum required.

I've never had atrophy on 250iu 2x/week. Weird.

Originally Posted by Life

I've never had atrophy on 250iu 2x/week. Weird.

How did you test your ITT levels?



This study demonstrates that around 300iu HCG every other day is needed to raise ITT levels to baseline while administering Testosterone. That's 1,050iu HCG weekly.



Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

Andrea D. Coviello, Alvin M. Matsumoto, William J. Bremner, Karen L. Herbst, John K. Amory, Bradley D. Anawalt, Paul R. Sutton, William W. Wright, Terry R. Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R. Zirkin and Jonathan P. Jarow
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (A.M.M.), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (A.D.C., W.J.B., J.K.A., B.D.A., P.R.S.), Seattle, Washington 98195; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (K.L.H.), Los Angeles, California 90059; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (X.Y., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21287; and Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (W.W.W., T.R.B., X.Y., B.R.Z., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21205

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Andrea D. Coviello, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University, Tarry 15-751, 303 East Chicago Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60611-3008. E-mail: a-coviello@northwestern.edu.

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

Study reprinted from a post by Heavyiron.

I usually start on my second week! 500iu x2 a week!

I've seen studies that say 100iu every day is enough to prevent atrophy as well. I've also read that bi-weekly is the best dosing protocol yet other studies say daily injections are best. HCG studies have to be the most conflicting studies i've ever read.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

Here's a blurb from one of the studies on rx muscle.

Originally Posted by Mr.BIG

I usually start on my second week! 500iu x2 a week!

I couldn't have said it better myself. 500iu 2X a wk starting wk 2.



/V

Thanks for the quick replys guys. I'm running test e 500mg per week, with exemestane every other day. Last night I felt a sharp tingle in my left nipple, lasted only one second. I got paranoid and popped an extra 12.5mg exemestane. I don't know if I should do 12.5 every day now for a few weeks or what. I'm a little afraid the hcg will cause gyno symptoms at 1000mg per week. I have 2000IU vials