Thread: When will the S$%T hit the fan for Pro Bodybuilding

I agree. Aas is awesome and bodybuilding would be nothing without them. But the extremes these guys have gone to is insane.

people drop dead every day from alcohol, tobacco and Rx drugs.

Originally Posted by D-Latsky

I agree. Aas is awesome and bodybuilding would be nothing without them. But the extremes these guys have gone to is insane.

who has ever died from AAS use?

Originally Posted by Glycomann

Thoughts??

my thoughts are that the government should worry about things that are important and keep their noses out of pro sports completely.

Originally Posted by Prince

my thoughts are that the government should worry about things that are important and keep their noses out of pro sports completely.

^This, worry about Rape, Murder, Robbery, so many it would take all night to list!

I'm not saying they will die from aas but slin and diuretics and pain mess wil fuck you up especially when taken at extreme doses for extended periods of time.

Originally Posted by D-Latsky

I'm not saying they will die from aas but slin and diuretics and pain mess wil fuck you up especially when taken at extreme doses for extended periods of time.

^^^ that's right. I'm not saying death from steroids but the extremes that are gone to have and will continue to lead to serious consequences and death. Momo Benazziza comes to mind. Atwood, wood, Don Youngblood, andreas munzer, Tom Prince. There are a lot of guys that bought it or fucked themselves up for life by pushing the limits. I think it's coming. I'm actually shocked that the government hasn't shut the IFBB down by now.

Prince you don't think it's getting to the breaking point? All the pieces of the puzzle seem to be falling into place. Scheduling, anti steroid laws, Congressional attention, media attention, pros that ate bigger than ever. More of them cramping and this and that and not making the night show. Massive force feeding. Huge doses and more and more exotic drug regiments.

Nope, bodybuilding is too much of a sub-culture, it's not mainstream.

i agree! i do think the amout of use has gotten out of hand tho

Originally Posted by D-Latsky

I'm not saying they will die from aas but slin and diuretics and pain mess wil fuck you up especially when taken at extreme doses for extended periods of time.

very very true, steroids never killed anyone, but in high high amounts of aas, gh, slin, diuretics take high toll on body, and can seriously mess up health. mike mattarazo had heart attack at 38. there is no proof or research syaing it was steroids, however years of abuse dose take toll. he admits it himself.

Originally Posted by Glycomann

^^^ that's right. I'm not saying death from steroids but the extremes that are gone to have and will continue to lead to serious consequences and death. Momo Benazziza comes to mind. Atwood, wood, Don Youngblood, andreas munzer, Tom Prince. There are a lot of guys that bought it or fucked themselves up for life by pushing the limits. I think it's coming. I'm actually shocked that the government hasn't shut the IFBB down by now.

Prince you don't think it's getting to the breaking point? All the pieces of the puzzle seem to be falling into place. Scheduling, anti steroid laws, Congressional attention, media attention, pros that ate bigger than ever. More of them cramping and this and that and not making the night show. Massive force feeding. Huge doses and more and more exotic drug regiments.

good call glycoman. he is very right. use of 100mg trene everday very safe and can be very effective. 450mg tren e everyday 5+ months at a time takes toll on body, along with many other compounds. i am for bbing as i am trying to get into ifbb right now myself, but i have also seen it first hand. so i say truths

Originally Posted by sofargone561

i agree! i do think the amout of use has gotten out of hand tho

guys in arnolds day still healthy and kicking!! but guys of todays generation we have yet to see cause its really still 1st generation to abuse this much. they are walking health project right now

Originally Posted by bigdtrain

guys in arnolds day still healthy and kicking!! but guys of todays generation we have yet to see cause its really still 1st generation to abuse this much. they are walking health project right now

I believe that point of view Prince presents has plenty of merit, it is not th government's job to regulate a sport that for all intents and purposes is far from mainstream. That said, if Obama-care comes into play, government involvement in peoples lives in regards to health and what is put into their body will become a big issue. Tobacco and alcohol have HUGE, ridiculous lobbies behind them. Do you know of a steroid lobby? No, there are no real lobbyists fighting for it that get mainstream attention beyond the odd documentary debunking the government's bad information. If the government want's to intervene in the IFBB there is nothing anyone can do. Look at baseball, you think players wanted congressional hearings? No, it was some douche bag Senator that had a hard on for guys using that made it all happen, one guy and the entire players association could do SHIT about it.

I feel there is a learning curve or S curve to most things. I think the best B.B.s are pretty smart and know that they want to leave a legacy. What if no one ever attempted a double backflip on a bike or front flip? yeah some guys broke there necks and are paralyzed for trying to pass what has already been done. They learned new ways to go about getting these record braking things done and they act bravely most the time. Yeah, B.B. is much to small to have anyone care, but us who love the sport, and there friends and families I think. I'm no pro B.B. but I love seeing the new level of freakiness to be honest. Hell, I feel I would be a pro if I could go back to pre Arnold era. But I'd never get to see Jay,Phil,Ronnie,ect. Everything is just fine.

I think some of the exotic compounds are possibly risky. Many of the research chems, peptides, and so on have not been tested in humans and may have negative effects down the road. Many of the Top guys are abusers to the extreme and I am sure others are not as bad. Some of BB are also drug addicts on top of everything else which is deadly with or without steroid use. Prince brings a good point. Steroids are much safer than products citizens of this country can buy over the counter like Tylenol, Tobacco, and Alcohol. I have had numerous relative die from alcohol. They actually drank themselves to death. Alcohol is a serious and deadly drug that is ok in the government standards. Tobacco is proven to have zero benefits and cause cancer without a doubt but can be sold to anyone over the age of 18. So the government is saying it is ok for you as a citizen to slowly kill yourself by using these products as long as we get a kick back out of it. Somehow they have an issue with citizens wanting to pursue healthy lifestyles and push past our natural limits by using steroids. If steroids are used in moderation they can have more positive effects than negative. Not really sure how the government can justify this as being morally wrong but selling cancer sticks and death in brown bottles or cans acceptable. Not even going to get started on Prescription drugs because they are out of control. The way these drugs are being pushed upon the people is sickening. There are pills that are legal heroin (oxycodone) for pain which are being prescribed in doses that will turn you into a junkie if you use them all and with them being so sought after in the streets the person prescribed can sell them and become rich. Money is not easy to come by with our economy why wouldn't a struggling ederly person sell these pills , they can't even use because they are too strong for them, for extra cash to survive. It is a messed up world we live in these days. The Prescription Drug situation is setup so wrong that it isn't even worth going into here. My point is Steroids are not that bad. I group steroids with Marijuanna. In most users steroids actually make the user want to live a healthier lifestyle. By healthier I mean eat better, exercise, take vitamins, and supplements to support good health. I think it would be nice to have doctors that were educated about actual steroid use and how to use them safely that users could go to see regularly. This would prevent everyday users who may not be educated enough to use safely from making stupid risky mistakes that could cause health issues. This would even further the safety record of steroids. All in all it is not right and there is no telling what this or any government will enforce or do. There are many issues that need to be addressed but it may never happen. Take care of yourselves and be safe. That is all we can do these issues are out of hands as of now.

Remember we are the gov. so technically it's our call

Originally Posted by Prince

Nope, bodybuilding is too much of a sub-culture, it's not mainstream.

Bbg is a soft target

Munzer and Benaziza bought the farm in contest shape. Not offseason. My recollection was that their death was more related to heavy diuretic use (Lasix) and Clen etc. I'm sure anyone pounding tons of Lasix on top of a ton of stimulants/thermo's.....slin.....runs the risk of seizing up and dying. The heart is a muscle. Accelerate it chemically and dehydrate it and you could die. High School kids were dying from ephedrine at one point. I think aas can be much safer than the stuff used to get contest shredded in the pro ranks.

Originally Posted by Mavrik

Munzer and Benaziza bought the farm in contest shape. Not offseason. My recollection was that their death was more related to heavy diuretic use (Lasix) and Clen etc. I'm sure anyone pounding tons of Lasix on top of a ton of stimulants/thermo's.....slin.....runs the risk of seizing up and dying. The heart is a muscle. Accelerate it chemically and dehydrate it and you could die. High School kids were dying from ephedrine at one point. I think aas can be much safer than the stuff used to get contest shredded in the pro ranks.

Yes that's my point. It's the extremes of polypharmacy that are the bogyman in this. Everyone jumps on me like I am anti AAS. If you have seen 5 of my post you know that is not true.

Originally Posted by Prince

Nope, bodybuilding is too much of a sub-culture, it's not mainstream.

That's right, and trust me, anybody that has the desire to be a heavyweight IFBB Pro will realize pretty fast if its a realistic goal or not. When they began to take the dosage that is required to be a top dog. The ability to take all the drugs and not get sick is something that is required. I have been Freak status before,and i felt like shit 24/7, no way i could do it year round, i simply don't have the genetics. It is a subculture and the Fed should stay the fuck out of it, as they should all professional sports. But BB'ing is for sure not mainstream by any means.

I agree with you on that glyco. I read about guys on here doing a cut taking a sensible cycle of aas and then adding T3, nyc stack and clen etc. Best of luck to them! Pehaps they should try diet, training and cardio and add one of those fat burners just to boost fat loss. You'd have to take an awful lot of aas for a very long time to match the health risks associated with artificially accelerating your heart or messing with your thyroid. Just my opinion.

You know it's funny... Dorian Yates and Lee Lebrada come out and try to debunk the heavy use in their own careers and they get blasted by every juicer on the planet who cry bullshit. 99% of people on the boards believe that Dorian and probably Lee used enormous doses. So, it is universally believed that doses at the higher ranks are HUGE and VAST. and hey.. a lot of top amateurs and pros use huge doses of lots and lots of different compounds and drug classes. We are talking about stuff like

4+ grams of AAS a week
20 iu GH a week
100+ iu insulin a day
nubain
daily diuretics
hypertention meds
cholesterol meds
heart arrhythmia meds
IGF-1 and other peptides
other narcotic pain killers
NSAIDS
AIs
Cortisol blockers
forced feeding

Then contest comes
heavy diuretics
EPO
exrtreme dieting
other exotics

So you have walking pharmacies and the IFBB judges are looking for mass and increased mass every year. So you have guys 5'8" on staqe at 270+ with blood so thick it barely pumps from the increased red cells and extreme dehydration. Look at Zach Kahn just guess posing and he is shaking like a leaf. Last year Jay and Branch could hardly hold a pose from spasm and shaking.

There is a huge difference between the above kind of abuse and the bodybuilder in his mid 30s that does his 250 g of protein a day, eats super clean, sleeps 6-8 hours a night, trains 5-6 days a week and does his cardio plus uses a little GH and does a mild cycle twice a year. Both life styles could conceivably come crashing down if the government and the media are given the opportunity to exploit the spectacle that is bodybuilding. Let's admit it. Its a spectacle. These chemical beasts are spectacle wherever they appear. You can bet your ass that some scumbag reporter is going to see dollar signs thinking about exploiting something like an on stage death of a chemical monster. Think of all the layers of the rotten onion that is the IFBB that could be peeled back for all the drooling masses to ogle.

This is the world we live in now. Every IFBB pro wants to become Mr. Olympia, and they will use any drug to ensure they get that competitive edge. Would I want all that for me? absolutely not. It's not my game, and it's not the governments.

I hear what you're saying Glycomann, but I doubt anything will be done anytime soon.

I don't think the mainstream/govt or LE really cares at all about the 200 or so Mens IFBB Pro Bodybuilders. Wether they drop dead onstage or after the show. Womens bodybuilding died after Cory Everson and Lenda Murray! The govt and mainstream have a hard enough time understanding how many baseball basketball and football players use aas/HGH etc to bother about a closet sport for freaks. Like us!

Charlie Francis (Team Canada Track Coach) said after Ben Johnson got caught and the Canadian Govt tested him for aas every 30 days that not using gear at the Olympic level was like Johnson setting up his starting blocks 6 yards behind the field. An insurmountable deficit in a 100 M. His point was that every single athlete at that level has to use aas/HGH etc. No one is physically gifted enough to beat the most physically gifted humans on the planet training and recovering on gear. No one.

You can't win the tour de france without blood doping, aas and HGH. (of course...except Lance! lol) The stuff is everywhere in sports. Who cares about bodybuilding?

The gov't, mainstream and LE have far more important drugs to go after than aas. They do go after it for sure but raiding an IFBB show? Not likely. How much worse could it get anyway? Next thing you know we will all have to order gear from Thailand , Russia or Eastern Europe! Whoops....

It's been said. There are MUCH more things for LE to focus their efforts on than a sub culture of aas users. Don't forget, a lot of these elite pros are obsessively complulsed with their bodies to the point they are constantly having lab work done and going over every detail with their doctors including striving to keep all their "levels" in check and in as good of standing as possible. However, this is not to minimize the risk associated with the use (and possible misuse) of some of the more dangerous compounds such as insulin which can easily be fatal if misused regardless of how healthy your labs results are. But I'm willing to bet most of the elite big name pros have become well-versed on the science of "how to use insulin properly and limit the danger."

Pharmaceuticals and street drugs are a much bigger problem and destroy a million times as many lives as gear.

Originally Posted by BigBird

Pharmaceuticals and street drugs are a much bigger problem and destroy a million times as many lives as gear.

as well as alcohol & tobacco.

A statistic is a statistic. Of course more people die from alcohol and tobacco, because more people smoke and drink compared to people who inject AAS.

Originally Posted by ANIMALHOUSE

A statistic is a statistic. Of course more people die from alcohol and tobacco, because more people smoke and drink compared to people who inject AAS.

name one person that has died from AAS use in the past 50 years.

the extremes they go to are nuts but the pressure to look bigger and better every year has made it like this. I don't blame the aas more so the stimulants and diuretics. on the other hand what most of them acheive is amazing. I mean look at jay he's a fing beast