Thread: My PCT after 8 months of blasting and cruising

From a guy who used Torm:

when it comes to pure PCT effectiveness, no other SERM out there has impressed me like Toremifene. It just seemed to work so much faster for me than clomid or nolva. Or even clomid AND nolva together. But the absolute BEST PCT effect I've experienced would have to be a combo of Toremifene with a STEROIDAL AI. (exemestane, or ATD.) As an INVERSE taper. Starting with a high end dose of the Torm and a minimal dose of the non steroidal AI, and increasing the dose of the AI while tapering the Torm out. Some people like Formastane instead of exemestane or ATD for that purpose but I've not used it in that particular context so I can't vouch.
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another:

Last PCT I considered the half life of Torem(about 5 days) and decided to dose week 1 and 2 60mg/EOD and week 3 and 4 30mg/EOD.
The emotions were much more in check and maintained strength throughout PCT. Granted the boys weren't raisins (another reason for dosing) but what a difference all the way around.- Show quoted text -

Originally Posted by BP2000

From a guy who used Torm:

when it comes to pure PCT effectiveness, no other SERM out there has impressed me like Toremifene. It just seemed to work so much faster for me than clomid or nolva. Or even clomid AND nolva together. But the absolute BEST PCT effect I've experienced would have to be a combo of Toremifene with a STEROIDAL AI. (exemestane, or ATD.) As an INVERSE taper. Starting with a high end dose of the Torm and a minimal dose of the non steroidal AI, and increasing the dose of the AI while tapering the Torm out. Some people like Formastane instead of exemestane or ATD for that purpose but I've not used it in that particular context so I can't vouch.
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So the reverse taper would keep estro rebound in check when you need it the most?

Originally Posted by bigmoe65

So the reverse taper would keep estro rebound in check when you need it the most?

Yes sir. During PCT you are stimulating the pituitary and testicles. If you did no PCT it could take up to a year for the testicles to rebound by themselves depending on the doses and compounds. Something like DECA could take 18 months. The pituitary will rebound in a matter of month's or less if no PCT.

So the most important thing is to GET DEM BALLS WORKIN. TORM is more effective than this than the other SERMS. Guys have reported their balls growing and hurting and plump using TORM within 3 days!

HCG works well in this regard too. So using HCG during and blasting HCG after the last shot and using TORM in conjunction would be stellar in this regard. After that using clomid/nolva and preventing estro rebound with the AI.

This is interesting.

Originally Posted by BP2000

using TORM in conjunction would be stellar in this regard. After that using clomid/nolva and preventing estro rebound with the AI.

There is no reason to use Torem AND Clomid, pick one and PCT with it...both work very well. I also DO NOT buy into the "reverse taper". You need to taper down your AI dose as you conclude your PCT, not taper it up.

more:

I talked to the doc today on the phone and he answered many questions for me in regards to recovery of the HPTA.
For those of you who don’t know what that is it is “Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis”
After administration of AAS, you have shutdown of the HPTA. Depending on the meds taken shutdown can be severe and much does depend on the person as well.

This is the protocol the doc said he used in literally thousands of users with suppressed HPTA.
First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.
Clomid is also taken but twice a day @ 50mg each dose 12 hours apart.

The reason for the amounts of HCG (which is the most important part, if the balls don’t fire everything else is worthless), is based on his determination to bring the balls back to life, too little wont accomplish this, too much risks damage to the Leydig cells.
So he basically was saying that you do the HCG and around day 10 of the above protocol, you should get a blood test for testosterone. If it is above 400 or greater then this says the balls will be just fine once you get off the HCG and the Clomid and nolva take over. This will accept the LH that you are putting out to maintain testicular function.
He used the term like jumping a car. Your battery (Pituitary gland) if low wont start your car (your testicles), if you use another car and jumper cables (HCG) once the car starts your battery (HP part of the HPTA) will keep your car running.

The clomid by itself he suggested can inhibit either the pituitary or the hypothalamus (can’t remember which one) but if taken with nolva this blocks the estrogen receptors so you wont inhibit that.
So clomid in his protocol is always taken with nolvadex ALWAYS.

He did mention that sometimes the balls just don’t take and then you do the protocol again. He said it was rare that he could not fire up the HPTA.
He said that beings that I have good size difference (balls), feel good, strength gains, and a greasy face he felt I should have no problems with returning the HPTA.

Some things he said was tribulis was actually inhibitory on the HPTA, great I wish I found that out after I bought two bottles.

ZMA, he said if it made me feel good then go for it but it is placebo and the HCG, clomid, nolva was it and all that is needed.

Talked to him about progesterone and he said never take that if you are a man (the last doc prescribed it to me)

I forgot to ask him about the GH question he was saying so much I was just trying to listen.

One thing he did mention (in an article) was that HGH actually helped with the testicular recovery with things and adding that to the Protocol is a good idea and productive.

Avoid aspirin when on HCG as it kind of ruins the effects.

He said oxandrolone was suppressive on the HPTA, but Deca and Anadrol were probably the worst in his opinion. I asked him about tren but he had no knowledge as he never used it.
He did mention that test in itself was not all that suppressive and he has seen guys on 18 months that came off and made a full recovery in 45 days with the above protocol.

He said one of the best ways was 12 weeks of test, followed by the above protocol, then start another 12 weeks followed by the above protocol with a month off after that then start again.

He did say that desensitization to HCG took around 2 months, and the dose of 2500 was fine and no damage or desensitization would occur if you followed his protocol.

well guys good and bad news ha. it has been 5 weeks since my tript shot..got a full lab panel done..RBC and H/H were a bit high so i need to donate blood..all else was good

anyway
total test came back at 527 (348-1197)
estrogen was 16 (7.6-42)
LH .2 (1.7-82.)
FSH .2 (1.5-12.4)

i didnt get free test tested i know but..bad news was that my LH and FSH are low..so im thinking of getting on clomid at 100mg a day for 30 days and 50mg a day for 30 days.

my pct was 200mcg of tript broken into 50mcg shots every 3 days and i ran an ai along side it.

Originally Posted by keith1569

well guys good and bad news ha. it has been 5 weeks since my tript shot..got a full lab panel done..RBC and H/H were a bit high so i need to donate blood..all else was good

anyway
total test came back at 527 (348-1197)
estrogen was 16 (7.6-42)
LH .2 (1.7-82.)
FSH .2 (1.5-12.4)

i didnt get free test tested i know but..bad news was that my LH and FSH are low..so im thinking of getting on clomid at 100mg a day for 30 days and 50mg a day for 30 days.

my pct was 200mcg of tript broken into 50mcg shots every 3 days and i ran an ai along side it.

your total test doesnt look that bad for such a low lh level. how do you feel?

i actually feel quite good..my only concern with that low of lh and fsh is fertility

Originally Posted by keith1569

i actually feel quite good..my only concern with that low of lh and fsh is fertility

kids are overrated.

haha well i have one and i love him to death..we are considering trying to have another in april 2011..

Originally Posted by keith1569

haha well i have one and i love him to death..we are considering trying to have another in april 2011..

Lol, I have 2.

hahah!!

2 kids here too, but also a vasectomy.
I find it interesting that your test is so good but lh and FSh are so low. What's stimulating your testes?
If it were me, I'd do exactly what you're thinking: run a serm for 4 weeks. I have heard dr scally claim that lh and FSh levels vary widely during the day and one test of these does not give a clear picture, and that if test is normal, then your lh levels must be ok throughout the day.

Hmm curious to see the end of this I'm in the middle of a cruise and planning on blasting again soon with test e, TNE, and primo. Hope all goes well for you guys looks like it is.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

2 kids here too, but also a vasectomy.
I find it interesting that your test is so good but lh and FSh are so low. What's stimulating your testes?
If it were me, I'd do exactly what you're thinking: run a serm for 4 weeks. I have heard dr scally claim that lh and FSh levels vary widely during the day and one test of these does not give a clear picture, and that if test is normal, then your lh levels must be ok throughout the day.

Thanks for the info man. Ya I am gonna start off with 50mg a day or clomid for a month. And go from there.
Since wifey and I r thinking about another next April in Feb I may start at 50mg again through April. We shall see though.

Sent from my Samsung Infuse 4G

So its been about 5weeks since your last pin. No? When are you going to get blood work done? Im curious to see what your levels are. We're around the same age and It would really help me out.

Btw how are you feeling with your PCT?

I feel great. I haven't noticed any changes that are significant. My strength has remained flat, but no losses. My libido dropped for a couple weeks, but is back to normal, and I never had any ED. I am getting quite a few big zits though.

I'm amazed at how well I feel, my psychological status is back to normal, especially since being off of tren.

I'm going to wait another 5 weeks and then get bloodowork, that will make it 4 weeks since pct ended.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I feel great. I haven't noticed any changes that are significant. My strength has remained flat, but no losses. My libido dropped for a couple weeks, but is back to normal, and I never had any ED. I am getting quite a few big zits though.

I'm amazed at how well I feel, my psychological status is back to normal, especially since being off of tren.

I'm going to wait another 5 weeks and then get bloodowork, that will make it 4 weeks since pct ended.

Ill follow this log. I need to find some references from people on here and their lab results after a run.

This might be moronic but, if some does a blast cruise and blast again they run the risk of not being able to have kids? Is that right?

Originally Posted by acemon

This might be moronic but, if some does a blast cruise and blast again they run the risk of not being able to have kids? Is that right?

I've heard arguments for both sides of this argument. But, by doing this, I definitely put myself at risk for needing trt for the rest of my life.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I've heard arguments for both sides of this argument. But, by doing this, I definitely put myself at risk for needing trt for the rest of my life.

"trt"? Do you mean hrt? Or is this something different?

Same thing, trt is testosterone replacement therapy, hrt is hormone replacement therapy. Sometimes hrt can refer to hgh therapy as well.

makes me wonder if I should've just given pct a shot instead of continuing to cruise... I've been on some test probably a bit over a year now though so the idea is intimidating lol

Honestly, I was scared to come off too, but it's been a breeze. I am only 5 weeks since last shot, so maybe I haven't crashed yet. I'm just wondering if we just hear the horror stories only.

yeah at 5 weeks just about all the exogenous hormones should be out of your sytem, if they weren't already a few weeks ago. So either you just don't feel that bad having really low T or you've already started to recover IMO. Glad it's going well for you though bro and hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on out.

I assumed they dropped quite a bit ago, considering that I only injected 250 mg the last 2 weeks on. Maybe I've had low test levels along and have gotten used to it? I did a 3 month run of deca only 10 years ago, maybe that ruined my test levels. I have always had a tough time staying slim. Or, maybe I just do well w low test levels? Sorry for rambling, I'm drunk. Lol