AAS HTPA Risk in

**xJolt** · 11-08-2011, 08:15 AM

Hello All!

I got my source for the Test-e I previously proposed but decided that I will start with a Tbol only cycle, if anything.

Old Idea

5'1" 190lbs @ ~%13B.F.
22 years old (minimum 23 when I run anything)
No previous AAS/PH/DS use.
2 years of consistent training (always been active though)

Anyways, I'm now thinking more along the lines of:

Oral Turinabol for 5 weeks @ 25/50/50/50/50
Along with Fish Oil, Preloaded Hawthorn Extract, Milk Thistle, NAC, Na-R-ALA, Red Brewer's Yeast, B5 (P-5-P) and Policosanol.

Then PCT with Torem @ 120mg for 3 days then 60mg for 11 days.
Along with LCLT 3g/day, Creatine, and all the stuff from on cycle.

I have Aromasin too. Should I add this to the PCT? Save it if Gyno symptoms appear from rebound E2?

Anyways that's all background.

My question is:
What are the risks of permanent damage to my HTPA. I'm still doing research and not just going to run AAS without fulling thinking it through. I'm having a hard time finding studies on pubmed or webofscience that discuss the longterm effect short and infrequent AAS cycles have on LH and Test Levels much after PCT.

I think this would be an ideal way to accelerate my gains and bring me closer to my natural max and perhaps past it. My goal would be to then try and hold onto my natural max and maintain it for years to come. Perhaps running another cycle if everything went well and my LH and Test were 100% back to normal a few months after PCT.

I'm worried by anecdotal reports of permanent HTPA shutdown after only a few cycles. I'm curious about the line of reggresion is on the HTPA toxicity for AAS. If AAS abuse = TRT does "dabbling" = sub-optimal Test/LH for life? Is there a "safe(er)" dose?

I would be much more likely to run the Tbol or the Test-E if I knew the risks. Its hard to find any data on what post-PCT Test/LH levels are expected to be. Do most people who wait at least a year between cycles return to 100%? Or is this whole thing a crazy train towards lifelong TRT?

I'm a Pharmacology Major with more interest in the subject than action. Thus, I hope you do not mind entertaining my questions even though I may not ever run a cycle. I am just very curious and now, I have the compounds around, I am tempted.

Please share your opinions on the topic of HTPA damage/risk in a people in their early/mid 20s who use less than once a year and exhibit ideal usage protocols.

If you have links to research that supports a position on the subject I would GREATLY appreciate it!

PS:
Please don't state "Go big or go home", "You have to run a Test base", etc. I have no intention of using injectables on and off for the rest of my life and ending up on TRT. Long term use/abuse of injectables is not the topic; please limit the discussion to short-term, responsible use, with no intention to be on and off for life.

Thanks!

**Vibrant** · 11-08-2011, 08:21 AM

Imo theres a bigger chance of hpta damage using orals only than injectables.

**ANIMALHAUS** · 11-08-2011, 08:35 AM

5' 1" @ 190lbs and 13% body fat?

Do you mean 5' 11"??? You're to young for AAS anyways.

**xJolt** · 11-08-2011, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by ANIMALHOUSE

5' 1" @ 190lbs and 13% body fat?

Do you mean 5' 11"??? You're to young for AAS anyways.

Seems to be that I am unable to post on a forum without making a confusing typo. I am 5 11 not 5 1.

So beyond just "your too young" what is the rational for 23 being too young. Is it that my test is already high? Because I've been tested at the bottom of the normal range (normal for all men not just 23 year olds!).

I'm taking a graduate level course in hormones (mostly estrogen though

) next year and I am curious about the specifics in this matter.

Furthermore, what rational is there in orals being more damaging to the HTPA than IM? Some mechanism via the liver? I was unaware of differential activity specific to route of administration outside of delivery mechanism and bio availability (first pass etc).

**Digitalash** · 11-08-2011, 09:58 AM

You're a bit on the young end, but I'm sure many guys started earlier than you. If you're going to do anything though I would follow this to a T First Cycle and PCT

**~RaZr~** · 11-08-2011, 09:59 AM

Dude search around the forums. There is a guy here who I replied to last night, who has Secondary Hypogonadism because he ran a huge ass cycle and is under 25.

Seriously, some guys think that this shit is a game. You are supplementing large amounts if exogenous hormones onto a body that, at your age, is producing its highest levels ever.

Unless you have labs drawn and your diagnosed with low levels of test, I'd hold off on the Yates/Coleman cycles. Like I tell everyone else, if your hell bent on using ....make sure you do everything simplistic and to a T.

**xJolt** · 11-08-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Digitalash

You're a bit on the young end, but I'm sure many guys started earlier than you. If you're going to do anything though I would follow this to a T First Cycle and PCT

Thanks. This cycle recommends 1g Test/week for the last two weeks! Pretty Heavy I believe.

Originally Posted by djlance

Dude search around the forums. There is a guy here who I replied to last night, who has Secondary Hypogonadism because he ran a huge ass cycle and is under 25.

Seriously, some guys think that this shit is a game. You are supplementing large amounts if exogenous hormones onto a body that, at your age, is producing its highest levels ever.

Unless you have labs drawn and your diagnosed with low levels of test, I'd hold off on the Yates/Coleman cycles. Like I tell everyone else, if your hell bent on using ....make sure you do everything simplistic and to a T.

Thank you for your highly relevant reply. That is truly unfortunate about the Secondary Hypogonadism. I hope he is able to restart his HTPA, or is he moved to TRT?
I do not think of medicine as "a game". I was unaware OT at 25/50/50/50/50 would be a "heavy" cycle as per the likes of something a professional bodybuilder would use. Am I mistaken?

Originally Posted by Vibrant

Imo theres a bigger chance of hpta damage using orals only than injectables.

Interesting. What is the logic here?

**TonyMack** · 11-08-2011, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by xJolt

Seems to be that I am unable to post on a forum without making a confusing typo. I am 5 11 not 5 1.

So beyond just "your too young" what is the rational for 23 being too young. Is it that my test is already high? Because I've been tested at the bottom of the normal range (normal for all men not just 23 year olds!).

I'm taking a graduate level course in hormones (mostly estrogen though

) next year and I am curious about the specifics in this matter.

Furthermore, what rational is there in orals being more damaging to the HTPA than IM? Some mechanism via the liver? I was unaware of differential activity specific to route of administration outside of delivery mechanism and bio availability (first pass etc).

Speaking from my own experience, guys that start at the low end normal have a tougher time recovering from cycles and are quicker to lose their gains. I'm cruising cause I have to, not cause i want to.

You're too young to be contemplating this. You should find a way to enjoy the gift of youth; and not fuck up your endocrine system. Trust me, you have lots to lose, maybe you just don't know that yet.

**xJolt** · 11-08-2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by TonyMack

Speaking from my own experience, guys that start at the low end normal have a tougher time recovering from cycles and are quicker to lose their gains. I'm cruising cause I have to, not cause i want to.

You're too young to be contemplating this. You should find a way to enjoy the gift of youth; and not fuck up your endocrine system. Trust me, you have lots to lose, maybe you just don't know that yet.

Start with less T -> have harder times getting it back. That makes sense and if you say you've seen it first hand then I'll assume I could have the same issues.

Yeah I suppose everything is pretty damn good right now; it seems greedy to want more.

Fair enough. I'll hold off until things start to fall apart.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

I suppose my study of Pharmacology and love of weight training led to the inevitable intersect that is AAS. I'll continue to read through this forum and the literature because I enjoy the idea of better living through chemistry whilst knowing it is not for me. Maybe it will even help me out in my course.

I still would like to know though: has anyone every developed HTPA issues from light & responsible use of Hdrol and/or Tbol (OT)?

Also, I've been searching quite a bit and failing...

...do SERMs aid in HTPA issues or cause further damage?

**~RaZr~** · 11-08-2011, 12:32 PM

Yes you might be starting with just OT, however like most others...once you get the needle, you don't go back. What I'm saying is, is that once you see how the gains are with just an oral, you will probably want to try the injectable. As it is, you already stated that you have a source for some Test.

I am not lecturing you, as you are an adult. I'm just giving my own insight from what I have seen throughout the years....

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