After Many Years of Trial and Error........

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 09:42 AM

I've finally discovered what cutter works best for me. Maybe this can help some of you, I don't know? This has been the most effective stack for me with zero sides, maximum retention of LBM and just an overall healthy feeling.

800mg Test Cyp. EW
100mg Primobolan Depot ED
100mg Anavar ED
5ius GH ED
50mcgs T3 ED

Primobolan - I will only use Bayer Schering Primo as the compound is often faked or severly underdosed. Schering is a HG compound only available in amps. Seeing that 1ml is equal to 100mg the overall volume of oil is significant, using the slin pin method is much easier and also keeps blood levels very stable. You could use it every 3.5 days twice a week, but that's 3.5ml's of oil all at once....no thanks. No A/I is needed with primo.

Anavar - isn't used until I can easily see my abs. Usually at this time the cardio is kicked into higher gear, calories are dropped again and an added compound for retention is a good idea. The anavar is a mild enough compound that you're not doing significant damage to the liver and usually lipids aren't trashed too much (all of the cardio you do will help with that) so it's safe to run it at this dose for 8 weeks (in my opinion). No A/I is needed with anavar.

T3 - Keeps the metabolism firing. With calories and carbs so low you're going to need all of the help you can get here.

GH - The fountain of youth as many have put it. Helps with sleep, getting and keeping you lean and overall repair from all of the stress you're placing on your body (weights and cardio).

Test - King of all hormones. If I really need to explain this, you need to do some more research.

All of that being said, this will help retain LBM while being in a caloric deficit and doing tons of cardio. The most important factor in all of this is having your diet nailed down and making the proper adjustments when needed (which is best left to a pro). HIRE SOMEONE. Guessing and trial and error on your own is a pain in the a$$. You'll get frustrated. You should easily spend more on your diet guy than the actual cycle. If it comes down to money, drop the GH and use winstrol instead of anavar. Diet guys will keep the guess work out of your head so you can focus on the food, training and cardio. Guessing is a sure fire way to waste gear, time, money and patience, trust me I did it for years and wasted a lot of time, money and gear. Once I hired the right people, my results were nothing short of amazing.

The only sides you're going to have are from the test. USE AN A/I AT ALL TIMES. If you feel gyno is coming on you can adjust the test dose or drop it alltogether while continuing on. The primo is enough to help you retain LBM, while you deal with the problem. With only one compound having the possibility of becoming an issue, it takes out the guess work of which compound is the issue at hand.

Good luck.

**Vibrant** · 12-14-2011, 09:48 AM

this sounds like something I would want to try if I had the dough to run primo/var 100mg ed.

**exphys88** · 12-14-2011, 09:49 AM

Awesome, thanks bro. I'm going to be running a very similar protocol, minus the primo. I'm running hgh at 8 iu/day now, and will add in:

test prop-500-600mg/week
Anavar 75-100mg/week
hgh-5-10 iu/week
halo-15mg preworkout
t3/t4 combo
proviron 50mg/day
Aromasin-as needed

I just finished pct, trying to be patient and let myself see the effects of hgh alone.

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Awesome, thanks bro. I'm going to be running a very similar protocol, minus the primo. I'm running hgh at 8 iu/day now, and will add in:

test prop-500-600mg/week
Anavar 75-100mg/week
hgh-5-10 iu/week
halo-15mg preworkout
t3/t4 combo
proviron 50mg/day
Aromasin-as needed

I just finished pct, trying to be patient and let myself see the effects of hgh alone.

That would work. Just be careful with the halo. That stuff is toxic as hell BUT it's a hell of a ride.

**exphys88** · 12-14-2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by XYZ

That would work. Just be careful with the halo. That stuff is toxic as hell BUT it's a hell of a ride.

Yeah, I thought just 15 mg on workout days would be a conservative amount.

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Yeah, I thought just 15 mg on workout days would be a conservative amount.

Problem with that is it leads to flucuation of blood levels, you need it everyday. 15mg ED is fine, 30-40mg is where you need to really be aware.

**OldSchoolLifter** · 12-14-2011, 10:01 AM

Awesome post! Thank you for the insight. Last time I ran primo was a long time ago, but maybe soon it will be tossed in the mix.

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter

Awesome post! Thank you for the insight. Last time I ran primo was a long time ago, but maybe soon it will be tossed in the mix.

The nitrogen retention is second only to tren.

**GMO** · 12-14-2011, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by XYZ

800mg Test Cyp. EW
100mg Primobolan Depot ED
100mg Anavar ED
5ius GH ED
50mcgs T3 ED

..........................

**D-Lats** · 12-14-2011, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by gmo

..........................

x2

**EATSCHILDREN** · 12-14-2011, 11:27 AM

Awesome, I'll plan on the poor man's version of this for a future run. Would you consider trading primo for an equal dose of eq an acceptable substitution? Test, eq, t3 and winny wouldn't be ran as liberally or long as one would Var. Maybe run this out to ~20weeks.

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by EATSCHILDREN

Awesome, I'll plan on the poor man's version of this for a future run. Would you consider trading primo for an equal dose of eq an acceptable substitution? Test, eq, t3 and winny wouldn't be ran as liberally or long as one would Var. Maybe run this out to ~20weeks.

I don't like EQ so no. I would just bump the test up. I would run the winstrol for a max of 6 weeks.

Run it as long as you need to in order to see the results YOU want. After so long, you'll get burnt out. I think 12 weeks is the longest I would go, I tried 16 before and was mentally fried by 12 weeks. The physical side of it is easy but the mental part is a mind fu*k.

**bigmoe65** · 12-14-2011, 12:47 PM

Wouldnt masteron be the closest substitute for primo?

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by bigmoe65

Wouldnt masteron be the closest substitute for primo?

Not really. It works well for people under 8% but the nitrogen retention is next to nothing. Primo is best at that, which will help you retain the most LBM possible. At lease not for me anyhow.

I used over a gram a week of mast prop and I lost LBM, 700mg primo and I could diet my ass off do tons of cardio and be fine....again, it moght just be me.

**exphys88** · 12-14-2011, 01:01 PM

Are there any diet guys that work online? Do you have any recommendations?

**XYZ** · 12-14-2011, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Are there any diet guys that work online? Do you have any recommendations?

I liked T3 and ECA, other than that not really. ECA will kill your appetite and 50mcgs T3 is more than enough. Other than that the biggest thing was cardio and diet. LOTS of cardio.

**exphys88** · 12-14-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by XYZ

I liked T3 and ECA, other than that not really. ECA will kill your appetite and 50mcgs T3 is more than enough. Other than that the biggest thing was cardio and diet. LOTS of cardio.

I meant a dietician for hire that works online. You said hire someone, and I can attest that diet is by far the most difficult Part for me. I'd like someone to tell me exactly what to eat and when to eat it.

**OfficerFarva** · 12-14-2011, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I meant a dietician for hire that works online. You said hire someone, and I can attest that diet is by far the most difficult Part for me. I'd like someone to tell me exactly what to eat and when to eat it.

These guys are amazing, I recommend them.

TotalPackage Forums

**exphys88** · 12-14-2011, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by OfficerFarva

These guys are amazing, I recommend them.

TotalPackage Forums

Do they lay it all out for you and make it easy? Do they actually tell you what meals to eat? I'm looking for an easy way to go about this?

**justhav2p** · 12-14-2011, 01:33 PM

XYZ ....

what was the highest calorie deficit and for how long?

I just picked up T3 to add to the ending of my tren a and prop.....I am thinking of lowering cals to 2,000 = 1,300 calorie deficit

**OfficerFarva** · 12-14-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Do they lay it all out for you and make it easy? Do they actually tell you what meals to eat? I'm looking for an easy way to go about this?

Yes they do. They work with you which is one of many reasons they are good. They don't force you to eat things you really don't like and incorporate the things you do like into the meal plan. They make it easy

**BigBird** · 12-14-2011, 01:50 PM

Whoever is running Halo pre-workout: Buckle up b/c you will feel nearly overcome with pure viciousness like a cornered wolverine. Stuff is 2nd to none as far as inducing pre-workout rage IMO. Methyltest is another option but not quite as "potent" IMO.

For some reason, Mast, being the super highly androgenic animal it is, made me 100000000x hornier than any compound I have ever ran, and I've ran nearly every compound known to mankind.

Between Mast and Primo, the strength gain was more evident with Primo. Mast is lower in the anabolic dpmt but it helpd me retain musculature when on reduce calorie diet however, any strength gains would've been attributed to the other compounds - Not the Mast.

**TGB1987** · 12-14-2011, 01:59 PM

XYZ what are your favorite injection sites with the slin pin technique (You are who turned me on to this method in the first place). I am hooked on Triceps with slin pin but have some issues if I go elsewhere bodyfat is at 9% right now but still feel like I have thick skin. I have been considering pecs. Shoulders are hit or miss with slin pin. Sometimes I don't get it in deep enough other times I do. Quads were not a success. Do you think there is any scar tissue that builds up with slin pins? Love the cycle setup by the way. I am planning on competeing in May and will be using Primo again while Dieting to maintain Muscle while leaning down.

**justhav2p** · 12-15-2011, 06:15 AM

**aminoman74** · 12-15-2011, 06:17 AM

Throw in prop. and you will hold less water if that's a concern of yours.

**XYZ** · 12-15-2011, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

I meant a dietician for hire that works online. You said hire someone, and I can attest that diet is by far the most difficult Part for me. I'd like someone to tell me exactly what to eat and when to eat it.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Total Package did my diet. Like others have mentioned.....money well spent.

Someone will tell you what to eat and when, AND make all of the adjustments for you so there is no wasted time, effort or overthinking. I would just do it once to really see how valuable it truly is.

Good luck.

**XYZ** · 12-15-2011, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by justhav2p

XYZ ....

what was the highest calorie deficit and for how long?

I just picked up T3 to add to the ending of my tren a and prop.....I am thinking of lowering cals to 2,000 = 1,300 calorie deficit

I don't count calories.

I can tell you right now you're not eating enough at all. That is where 99% of people fail.

**XYZ** · 12-15-2011, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by TGB1987

XYZ what are your favorite injection sites with the slin pin technique (You are who turned me on to this method in the first place). I am hooked on Triceps with slin pin but have some issues if I go elsewhere bodyfat is at 9% right now but still feel like I have thick skin. I have been considering pecs. Shoulders are hit or miss with slin pin. Sometimes I don't get it in deep enough other times I do. Quads were not a success. Do you think there is any scar tissue that builds up with slin pins? Love the cycle setup by the way. I am planning on competeing in May and will be using Primo again while Dieting to maintain Muscle while leaning down.

Quads and no scar tissue build up.

**XYZ** · 12-15-2011, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by aminoman74

Throw in prop. and you will hold less water if that's a concern of yours.

That's debatable, as everyone is different and everyone has a different reaction to estrogen.

Thread: After Many Years of Trial and Error........

Thread Tools

Display

After Many Years of Trial and Error........

Similar Threads

Trial & Error w. Calorie Increasing

Error

how to get rid of a Script error

Posting Permissions