Thread: Read this and let me know if I'm crazy

Fair enough. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but to at least understand what I meant, just so were clear.

Originally Posted by bigbenj

I think you guys are missing my point somewhat, and going off on tangents. I never said diet wasn't important. I also admitted that I have seen my best gains this far from really cracking down in diet. Again, this isn't about second/third cycles and beyond. Of course you'll look your biggest and best with a proper diet, but again, I was making a different point then just run gear your whole life, don't pay any attention to diet and you'll be fine.

This was about guys NOT GAINING A SINGLE POUND ON THEIR FIRST RUN, and people claiming their diet is junk. IF YOU DON'T GAIN A SINGLE POUND YOUR FIRST CYCLE, YOUR GEAR IS BUNK. PERIOD.

Your body is being flooded with testosterone, you should see some gain, even if it's minimal.

Losing weight is COMMON on steroids. Guys who cut (eat below maintenance) lose weight period. Almost every guy you see that steps on stage is juiced to the max and has lost significant weight up until the comp. Why? DIET and training.

This is why we ask guys about their diet because it IS the determining factor of weight gain or loss. Drugs are not magic. You need proper fuel to grow.

Its all good. I Expected you of all people to respectfully disagree, then for people to ride your coat tails(surprised it hasn't happened yet lol). I get your point at the end about needing proper fuel to grow, but contest ready is a far cry from what my OP was about.

My first cycle I was dieting to loose weight lol went from 230 to 195 on just test.

My point wasn't about contest prep it was about eating below maintenance no matter if its a newbie or a guy stepping on stage.

Originally Posted by bigbenj

Its all good. I Expected you of all people to respectfully disagree, then for people to ride your coat tails(surprised it hasn't happened yet lol). I get your point at the end about needing proper fuel to grow, but contest ready is a far cry from what my OP was about.

If you want to look like mini Culter or Arnold...then diet is def key..

But if your not too worried about lookin like those monsters and eat OK (good balance of protein/fats/carbs) and have legit gear you should def gain something if your training hard...if not just like ben said...gear is just bunk!

I know and have known plenty of guys on gear and gave two shits about diet and you can def tell them mofo's are "on" cuz their gear is on point..!...just sayin..

My bad. I'm at work, so I'm speeding reading. I see what you're saying. I should also add that a lot of the guys see no weight gain or strength gain. The guys I'm referring to, who I won't name, we're definitely eating in surplus. I know because I've talked to them personally.

There was a guy who ran a test cycle recently. I know the guys diet, so I know he eats, and he gained just about nothing. His gains were minimal, and any gains he did acquire we're from his caloric surplus. He actually said like he felt he was just getting fat from all the food. He said maybe he just expected too much. I told him not to sell himself short. This is just one guy, but I've got the same report from a couple of guys.

It's just frustrating to see these guys getting attacked somewhat, with claims that theyre lying. People telling them to post blood work to back it up. Why can't we believe people for once? I don't think we need blood work to tell us what we already know, when the evidence is right in front of us.

Heavy, you'll have a pm in a minute.

A few years back I wrote down every meal every day for about 3-4 weeks because a diet guy asked me to. I was appalled at what I saw. Low protein, high fat. My diet was a disaster. I always think about that when a guy tells me his diet is on point. I have learned unless you write down everything that goes into your mouth you likely have no clue what macro's you are consuming.

I challenge every guy reading this to start a journal and record everything they eat. It will be hilarious I'm sure.

Originally Posted by bulldogz

If you want to look like mini Culter or Arnold...then diet is def key..

But if your not too worried about lookin like those monsters and eat OK (good balance of protein/fats/carbs) and have legit gear you should def gain something if your training hard...if not just like ben said...gear is just bunk!

I know and have known plenty of guys on gear and gave two shits about diet and you can def tell them mofo's are "on" cuz their gear is on point..!...just sayin..

I think benny is saying that there is no gear out there these days that are on point, basically saying its all bunk, And from reading between the lines I think he wants to slam a sponsor but don't want to end up like he did at M.D..

Well if the Gear they are running is Legit then i would look into their diet.

Originally Posted by REDDOG309

I think benny is saying that there is no gear out there these days that are on point, basically saying its all bunk, And from reading between the lines I think he wants to slam a sponsor but don't want to end up like he did at M.D..

LOL..I guess..

I have purchased from a select few sponosors on here...I can tell you some are def good and some I question...

I pinned deca and npp from a current sponsor to crash my T levels for TRT then did bloodwork a few days later and my T level came back thru the roof....even tho not bunk, but it didn't do what it was suppose to do..lol

This is why I stay and say homebrew dog

Originally Posted by bigbenj

Ok, so we all know I'm crazy, but this is something that has been on my mind:

Why is it that when we see a guy posting that he saw no results from his first cycle, the first response is always "what does your diet look like?". It's never the gear at first, always the diet.

I've actually come to get a good laugh out of this now. Think of the thousands upon thousands of guys who started a first cycle with no idea what "eating like a bodybuilder" means. No idea that forums like this exist, or maybe these forums didn't even exist in their time. Yet they got their hands on some gear, ate three times a day(or maybe pigged out), lifted balls to the wall, and blew up. They weren't carrying around coolers full of shakes and chicken breasts.

I see a lot of the older guys talk about how they had no clue what they were doing their first time, and they ballooned up. But for some reason, now it seems that's not possible. These days, with all the e-dieticians on the forums, it seems everyone is an expert, and it can't possibly be the gear. It's your diet or training.

If I see a guy say he just ran 500mg of test and didn't see jack shit, I'm calling bunk gear. Period. You can call me a noob if you want, but the evidence is out there everywhere.

Of course, the more advanced you get, the more and more important diet becomes, but that's not what this was about.

End of rant. For now.

Blah blah blah and a blah blah blue, and some more blah blah FART.


NEXT!

Originally Posted by bigbenj

My bad.

Sounds like your dad had the real deal, good shit. Too many bunk/underdosed gears floating around these days.

Too bad they can't approve all gear for human consumption. Then we could get properly dosed stuff all the time. Human grade tren and dbol would be awesome!

Never knew this existed.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

A few years back I wrote down every meal every day for about 3-4 weeks because a diet guy asked me to. I was appalled at what I saw. Low protein, high fat. My diet was a disaster. I always think about that when a guy tells me his diet is on point. I have learned unless you write down everything that goes into your mouth you likely have no clue what macro's you are consuming.

I challenge every guy reading this to start a journal and record everything they eat. It will be hilarious I'm sure.

I just recently started doing this and I was also in shock. I was not taking in enough carbs, wayyyyy too low for my goals.

When i start back up at the end of Jan I will write all my meals down so I know exactly what's going in my body and the macros.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

A few years back I wrote down every meal every day for about 3-4 weeks because a diet guy asked me to. I was appalled at what I saw. Low protein, high fat. My diet was a disaster. I always think about that when a guy tells me his diet is on point. I have learned unless you write down everything that goes into your mouth you likely have no clue what macro's you are consuming.

I challenge every guy reading this to start a journal and record everything they eat. It will be hilarious I'm sure.

EXACTLY!

Sure you can get results without keeping the diet tight, but you'll get better results when it is tight. For guys who only do 1-2 cycles a year I would think you would want the absolute best results you could obtain.

I think Heavy and I used the same diet guys so I know for a fact that diet is the key to everything.

If what you're trying to say is "bunk" gear causes no results, sure I can agree with that but I think your original post is misleading at best.

Originally Posted by heavyiron

A few years back I wrote down every meal every day for about 3-4 weeks because a diet guy asked me to. I was appalled at what I saw. Low protein, high fat. My diet was a disaster. I always think about that when a guy tells me his diet is on point. I have learned unless you write down everything that goes into your mouth you likely have no clue what macro's you are consuming.

I challenge every guy reading this to start a journal and record everything they eat. It will be hilarious I'm sure.

This is True. Most dieting real bodybuilders will actually be eating more than most normal guys who think they are doing a good job bulking. The truth is most of us don't eat enough. I am guilty too. I don't write down everything I eat and I know that if I did it would not always be where I want it to be. That is the why bodybuilding or just building muscle in general is such a challenge. You have to be dedicated more than any other sport. This is a 24/7 job. Weight is not an indicator of whether you have good gear or not. Strength isn't either. If you want to see if your Test is good or at least contains some amount of Test then blood work will tell you. There are some bad gears out there without a doubt so yes this could be an issue but if you are doing things right in the first place and are trying to gain mass just the placebo effect combined with PROPER DIET and TRAINING should yield results of some sort. IF you depend solely on gear to gain and get bad gear you are not going to gain and shouldn't be using AAS anyway IMO. If you question gear then get the bloodwork.

Originally Posted by XYZ

Never knew this existed.

I was saying it would be nice IF it existed. That way REAL pharmaceutical companies could produce it, and we'd always know what we're getting.

Originally Posted by bigbenj

I was saying it would be nice IF it existed. That way REAL pharmaceutical companies could produce it, and we'd always know what we're getting.

OK, I misunderstood you.

I think a reliable source is the best way to solve all of these issues? Guys getting bunk gear?........that's just not good.

It would be nice if AAS were legal, that would put an end to all bunk gears.

I would cry if that day ever came LOL

Originally Posted by heavyiron

I challenge every guy reading this to start a journal and record everything they eat. It will be hilarious I'm sure.

I started using a fitness pal APP 6-8 months ago and was surprised how inconsistent throughout the week my daily % were.
It's a convientant and quick way

I agree with pretty much everybody that has posted. I tend to believe most gear is under-dosed to a point. I have a hard time believe that most tren, mast, deca are all the mg that they say they are. I think most of the test products are usually pretty right on but the more expensive are dosed lower than they say. I have a decent amount of tren ace in my stash from 3 different sponsors here and elsewhere and I have a hard time believing they are all 100mg/ml and not 75mg/ml. Maybe im just cynical.........

For anyone who's posted in here, please read my first post, let it soak in, and tell me what you don't agree with in my post....and please remember that this is pertaining to first time users.

I don't think many of you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I need to clarify.

Do you believe a FIRST TIME user can see gains from 500mg of test and 3 square meals a day? Or do you truly believe that a first time user needs to eat 5-6 meals a day? And please don't tell me what is optimal, we all know whats optimal, but thats not the question.

do you or do you not believe they should see results?

Originally Posted by bigbenj

For anyone who's posted in here, please read my first post, let it soak in, and tell me what you don't agree with in my post....and please remember that this is pertaining to first time users.

I don't think many of you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I need to clarify.

Do you believe a FIRST TIME user can see gains from 500mg of test and 3 square meals a day? Or do you truly believe that a first time user needs to eat 5-6 meals a day? And please don't tell me what is optimal, we all know whats optimal, but thats not the question.

do you or do you not believe they should see results?

I agree with some of your points in your original post, most definitely. Though, diet is essential.

Originally Posted by bigbenj

For anyone who's posted in here, please read my first post, let it soak in, and tell me what you don't agree with in my post....and please remember that this is pertaining to first time users.

I don't think many of you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I need to clarify.

Do you believe a FIRST TIME user can see gains from 500mg of test and 3 square meals a day? Or do you truly believe that a first time user needs to eat 5-6 meals a day? And please don't tell me what is optimal, we all know whats optimal, but thats not the question.

do you or do you not believe they should see results?

Just say what sponsors sell bunk gear so I dont order from there.

Originally Posted by bigmoe65

Just say what sponsors sell bunk gear so I dont order from there.

lol, yeah ben tell us what you really feel. no reason to beat around the bush.

Originally Posted by bigbenj

For anyone who's posted in here, please read my first post, let it soak in, and tell me what you don't agree with in my post....and please remember that this is pertaining to first time users.

I don't think many of you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I need to clarify.

Do you believe a FIRST TIME user can see gains from 500mg of test and 3 square meals a day? Or do you truly believe that a first time user needs to eat 5-6 meals a day? And please don't tell me what is optimal, we all know whats optimal, but thats not the question.

do you or do you not believe they should see results?

Hell yeah someone should be able to gain with 3 square meals (quality meals) a day with gear that is on point...now a days...your diet has to be in check tho dog!

My first go...I didn't know what I was doing and ate "dirty" per say and I still gained and looked like I was on something people would tell me all the time I looked bigger and what not..

I'm not going to bash any sponsor. I already went through that phase lol

I know a guy that complains that he's been on a gram a week of test and he's only gained 5 pounds after 10 weeks. I insisted that his gear was bunk until I saw facebook pictures of him from a few months back and the difference was profound. He became much more masculine looking, more muscular, and less fat. He was hoping for numbers on the scale, and so he was disappointed, he instead recomped really nicely. Should have eaten more!