Estrogen suppression while on

**Mudge** · 02-15-2003, 02:24 PM

This is for you Korn

I've come across a couple others that also say there is no evidence to support needing E while on, so what is your theory and practice on this? The guy is Billy Bathgate, a chem dude, on another board.

crackerjack414 · 02-16-2003, 02:31 AM

personaly iam gyno proof I feel that u should not run an anti e during a cycle unless gyno symptms occur. Basicaly my theory behind this is that u need a certain amount of estrogen in your body for gains to be the best. The only time I run anti es is during cut cycles.

**Mudge** · 02-16-2003, 02:39 AM

I know that side of the belief system, and many still claim that some E is needed, yet others insist there is no proof of that and I haven't seen any either.

So, I'd like to hear his side of things, I am trying to get info out of this chemist guy as well.

crackerjack414 · 02-16-2003, 11:53 AM

keep me posted iam interested in what you find out. I gues if this comes into to big of a debate I could run a cycle with anti es and get my blood tested every 4 weeks like i normaly do. And then do the same without. Maybe if we can get enough guys to do this we can come to some time on consensus

**Mudge** · 02-16-2003, 01:40 PM

Cracker, your only 19?

MJ23 · 02-17-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackerjack414
personaly iam gyno proof I feel that u should not run an anti e during a cycle unless gyno symptms occur. Basicaly my theory behind this is that u need a certain amount of estrogen in your body for gains to be the best. The only time I run anti es is during cut cycles.

I have to agree with the fact that I dont run anti-estrogen during a cycle unless I start to get a little sensitive

Cracker is 19.. Did I miss somthing.. sounds quite knowledgable

MJ23 · 02-17-2003, 07:36 AM

but then Again, I never run anything like 750 of sust a week, or 50mg a day of dbol

**Mudge** · 02-17-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Here are some of my quick thoughts. Im in admist writing some detailed work up on it, so Ill leave ya hangin for that....

1) Total or low enough estrogen is not going to happen unless your a jackass with your doses. Ex 30pg/dl E2 pre-cycle, then 1000mg Test...new level 200pg/dl. Say we take 25mg Aromasin ED, that will bring us to a theortical of oh say 50pg/dl...sufficeint.

2) Nolva. I take it, I dont care if it reduced my igf by 20% big deal. Im on a gram or two of AAS so oh well. It helps out the cholesterol levels and helps even more against gyno.

IMO 25mg Aromasin = 2mg ARi = 3.75mg Let

Aromasin is special. It can be taken up to E3D since the effects are permanent (suicidal inhibition).

I dont like Let at all. It increases aromatic protien enzymes, which means when you come off it you have more estrogen converting that when you started...not good, but maybe if you follow up with nolva.

My guidline

Test

<500mg/wk 25mg Aroma E3D + 10mg Nolva
<750mg/wk 25mg Aroma EOD + 10mg Nolva
<1000mg/wk 25mg ARoma ED + 10mg Nolva

Thats just my staple. I dont like being fat and bloated. I would rather be healthy than high BP, gyno, bloated etc.

Thats my info so far from Billy, plenty of others again say unless they have gyno issues then they dont care, but the BP comment was interesting, didn't think about that.

MJ23 · 02-17-2003, 02:26 PM

rather informative

cornfed · 02-17-2003, 05:10 PM

I'f you want my view, I pm'd ya mudge and you can quote it. cutting E to zero is bad, but any elavated levels are as well IMO byt benefits vs. risk or cost.

crackerjack414 · 02-17-2003, 06:23 PM

Iam 20 now mudge I was 19 when i started

**Mudge** · 02-17-2003, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cornpipe
The only problem is that water retention is not necessary for growth. Saying that it is is basically saying you can't grow on prop, winny, primo, growth, or other non bloating drugs. While there are many that believe like you, there is/has not been any scientific proof that lends that view credibility. estrogen can = higher gross wt gain, but the net benefit (LBM) is not improved. So why would you want the extra E around? I say that you don't and that an anti E can help to keep you leaner while gaining (given that the diet is pretty clean) and therefore prevent the excess non LBM gain and it's subsequent need for removal.

To each their own.

cornfed · 02-18-2003, 01:08 PM

Why thank you sir

I didn't save a copy

02-15-2003, 02:24 PM	#1
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Estrogen suppression while on This is for you Korn I've come across a couple others that also say there is no evidence to support needing E while on, so what is your theory and practice on this? The guy is Billy Bathgate, a chem dude, on another board. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

02-16-2003, 02:39 AM	#3
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	I know that side of the belief system, and many still claim that some E is needed, yet others insist there is no proof of that and I haven't seen any either. So, I'd like to hear his side of things, I am trying to get info out of this chemist guy as well. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

02-16-2003, 01:40 PM	#5
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Cracker, your only 19? Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

02-17-2003, 07:36 AM	#7
MJ23 World's Greatest Lovea Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pimpville Posts: 2,125	but then Again, I never run anything like 750 of sust a week, or 50mg a day of dbol "It is hard to believe a man is telling the truth, when you know you would lie if you were in his shoes."

02-17-2003, 02:26 PM	#9
MJ23 World's Greatest Lovea Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pimpville Posts: 2,125	rather informative "It is hard to believe a man is telling the truth, when you know you would lie if you were in his shoes."

02-16-2003, 02:31 AM	#2
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	personaly iam gyno proof I feel that u should not run an anti e during a cycle unless gyno symptms occur. Basicaly my theory behind this is that u need a certain amount of estrogen in your body for gains to be the best. The only time I run anti es is during cut cycles.

02-16-2003, 11:53 AM	#4
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	keep me posted iam interested in what you find out. I gues if this comes into to big of a debate I could run a cycle with anti es and get my blood tested every 4 weeks like i normaly do. And then do the same without. Maybe if we can get enough guys to do this we can come to some time on consensus

02-17-2003, 05:10 PM	#10
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	I'f you want my view, I pm'd ya mudge and you can quote it. cutting E to zero is bad, but any elavated levels are as well IMO byt benefits vs. risk or cost. - "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

02-17-2003, 06:23 PM	#11
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	Iam 20 now mudge I was 19 when i started

02-18-2003, 01:08 PM	#13
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	Why thank you sir I didn't save a copy - "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
HRT Info	dg806	Anabolic Zone	0	07-17-2006 01:01 PM
staying on AAS for 6 months+ ?	Tha Don	Anabolic Zone	14	08-27-2005 08:03 AM
good big cat post on anti e's	Power Rabbit	Anabolic Zone	3	01-12-2004 12:55 AM
Estrogen	Mudge	Anabolic Zone	1	07-09-2003 12:45 PM
Is 1-AD harmful?	Vale Tudo	Supplements	44	07-11-2002 06:36 PM