Thread: PCT reflections...

Originally Posted by banker23

Okay, one week into PCT and everything seems to be going great (using torem 120, 90, 60, 30 and aromasin 25, 12.5). I rolled out the PWO for the first time in months to keep the intensity up in the gym.

Just kind of looking back on the cycle (first ever on the dark side) and thinking about what worked well and what could have been better and maybe I could get some feedback on my line of reasoning here

Observations:

1. first 6 weeks dosing test at 500 mg ew (250/250) I did not feel particularly enhanced. Not until I bumped the dose to 750 for weeks 7-10 did I really start to feel a difference from normal.

2. first 4 weeks with dbol were impressive at 40mg daily but that possibly contributed to the 500mg dose of test being less impressive.

3. last minute addition of super dmz for weeks 9-12 (last two weeks of inj's and two weeks while test was clearing) was the MOST impressive part of the whole cycle at 20 mg daily. This made me question my initial doses of dbol as potentially being too low as well.

Questions based on observations:

1. Next cycle should I just start test at 750 and bump to 1000 or 1250 at week 7 since 500 didn't really feel like it was doing anything?

2. Should I increase dbol dosage to 80mg daily? even though it felt great, after trying the superdmz it makes me think I underdosed.

stats:

38 years
5'10"
245 lbs.

cycle highlights

flat bench moved from 280lbs for 5 reps to 325 lbs for 5 reps
incline bench from 260lbs for 5 reps to 320 lbs for 4 reps

1 week into PCT these are unchanged

Whats PCT ??

Normally it takes me 4-5 weeks to start really feeling test E by itself. That's why a kickstart is good with long estered test. I love kick starting with prop. So much in fact, my whole entire cycle will be prop based instead of test-e.

Why are you using torem for pct? Clomid is a better option.

Originally Posted by Vibrant

Why are you using torem for pct? Clomid is a better option.

Everyone I know who's used both has preferred the torem. I've never used either before so I just went with what I heard.

Originally Posted by banker23

Everyone I know who's used both has preferred the torem. I've never used either before so I just went with what I heard.

Read this thread: Torem users please chime in

any chance your gear is underdosed? Im feeling 500mg after the end of the third week...

Originally Posted by Coop817

any chance your gear is underdosed? Im feeling 500mg after the end of the third week...

Sure there's a chance but not likely. I am using the same brand and supplier as alot of people here who do just fine. I think it might be one of those uncommon things where one person responds atypically to a normal dose and ends up needing more.

Originally Posted by Vibrant

Read this thread: Torem users please chime in

Now that I read that I realize I've read that before. That was helpful in my decision to run the torem. Most of the negative reports concede questionable sourcing so I can write off alot of the negative stuff. I am on day 7 of torem right now and I gotta say I don't even feel like I am off yet. (120/120/120/90/90/90/90). Even libido seems to be back to normal (maybe a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10) already.

I will start dosing torem at 60mg tomorrow for 2 weeks then wrap up the last week with 30mg. I will do blood tests about 30 days after PCT to see how the recovery really went.

I'm running aromasin at 25mg ed for first two weeks of PCT then dropping to 12.5 every day for the last two weeks.

I know clomid is tried and true but I just had too many people who've used both swear by torem to pass it up.

I will let everyone know how the torem is going since that seems to be what has everyone most interested. I didn't realize it was a questionable quantity in some circles. So far, it seems great but does anyone have any non-torem related feedback on these questions from the original post?:

1. Next cycle should I just start test at 750 and bump to 1000 or 1250 at week 7 since 500 didn't really feel like it was doing anything?

2. Should I increase dbol dosage to 80mg daily? even though it felt great, after trying the superdmz it makes me think I underdosed.

Thanks again.

80mg of legit dbol is way too much imo for a cycle. you'll be risking major

Originally Posted by Vibrant

80mg of legit dbol is way too much imo for a cycle. you'll be risking major

I hear ya bro. Maybe the stuff is underdosed but it's a well-known brand and from one of the most trusted suppliers that sponsor here. No guarantees though and I understand that.

Still, the dbol did its job...just not as well as the super dmz. That leads me to wonder if I need more to get equivalent results.

I've never been prone to gyno, pre-gyno, or even itchy nips, but I dosed aromasin eod at 12.5 or 25 mg to be safe and I could dose it up to twice a day at 25mg if it became an issue. Still, though, I don't expect it to be a problem.

I am thinking more like 60-80. If I do 60, I would prob dose 10 in the a.m., 10 in the afternoon, and 40 pre-workout. 20/20/20 on rest days.

You should NOT need a gram of test per week for a 2nd cycle. I'd consider 750 all the way through but more seems unnecessary if its dosed correctly. Personally I don't get a lot from test but size and weight. A little boost in libido and some strength but not a huge change in either. I had a great ride with SD even ran at a low dose so I can relate to you on both accounts

just about done with week 2 of PCT dosing 60 mg of torem daily right now. Seems to be working fine. Libido seems to be coming back (rolled over and pinned the wife a few times over the last few days).

More interstingly, it's been almost 4 weeks since my last dose of test and nearly two weeks since my last dose of super dmz but my strength is still dialing up. My flat bench has gone from 320 for 5 reps to 330 for 5 reps since starting PCT. (started off at 280 for 5 reps when starting cycle back in October)

Also, all of the joint issues that seemed to be holding me back 3 months ago or so seem to be non-issues now.

I am using a PWO right now though (musclepharm assault) so I am sure that helps. I think it's a good strategy to drop PWO's while on cycle then bring them back in for PCT and Off cycle where they will be most beneficial.

Torem update:

finshed with PCT now. Zero strength loss or lbm loss since finishing cycle (6 weeks since last test injection and 4 weeks since last super dmz dose).

I just ordered the trs ver.2 from primordial performance just because I feel it more directly addresses blood values so I will wait another 30 days at least before getting blood work done. (I used it before as a PH PCT and it was great on its own).

Libido's normal and I have no complaints for torem.

Probably last time I'll use it though. What happened to GMO has got me thinking that I don't want to mess around anymore with injectable stuff (the kind of stuff that wives freak out over). I will stick with legal OTC PH's for now (using primordial performance andro mass for my test base).

Honestly, couldn't tell any difference between injectable test and andromass. Between that, Androhard, and super dmz I should be able to run shorter cycles okay (4-6 weeks) without Pharma grade PCT or ancillaries with respectable results (haven't been disappointed yet).

1 week since my last dose of torem and my strength is still increasing. So far no loss in strength or mass and I increased my bench to 340 for 5 reps last night (assistance on 5th rep).

At this point, I feel like I am going to keep these gains and continue to add to them at a slower rate while training naturally. (As said before, I am using musclepharm assault so that is probably helping pick up the slack a little as well)

That's pretty impressive. I wonder what the strength increases are from?

Originally Posted by SloppyJ

That's pretty impressive. I wonder what the strength increases are from?

The only thing I can guess is the musclepharm and just from keeping up my training intensity and caloric intake high in protein.

I quit PWO's while on then start using them again in PCT and I get a steroid-esque pump from the con-cret and l-argininine in the Assault product. Con-cret's good shit I think.

I think by quitting while on cycle, my sensitivity to PWO ingredients is increased...

...or maybe it's all in my head; in any case I won't complain and will continue to push forward.

I alternate one week incline BP and one week flat BP so I think that is also helping but who knows.

...I've noticed my lats are helping to pop the weights up easier when I superset pullups or pulldowns and BP.

Yes I agree that a strong back makes for heavier bench. But I'm not sure if I agree with the PWO stuff. I take assault also but I don't feel like it can actually help me increase my weight. It just gets me in the zone and I feel like pushing hard when I'm in the gym.

But either way, something is working so keep it up! I've heard that the con-crete was pretty good stuff too. Maybe I will try it.