Thread: Toremifene Citrate improves HDL while Nolvadex improves LDL

Cool

Nolvadex improves LDL? That is new to me

Tamoxifen inhibits arterial ac... [Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

Tamoxifen inhibits arterial accumulation of LDL degradation products and progression of coronary artery atherosclerosis in monkeys.


Abstract

Estrogen replacement therapy reduces the risk of coronary heart disease in postmenopausal women and inhibits progression of coronary artery atherosclerosis in monkeys. Tamoxifen is a nonsteroidal compound with mixed estrogen agonist and antagonist properties. Its antagonist activity is useful in chemotherapy of breast cancer and may have protective effects on plasma lipid concentrations, but its effects on atherogenesis have not been defined. The goal of this study was to examine the effect of tamoxifen on plasma lipids, arterial and hepatic LDL metabolism, and progression of coronary artery atherosclerosis in surgically postmenopausal female monkeys. Thirty-five monkeys were fed an atherogenic diet containing 1.3 mg.kg-1.d-1 tamoxifen (equivalent to the usual dose of 20 mg/d given to women). Thirty-one monkeys were fed the same atherogenic diet with no tamoxifen. Ten monkeys from each treatment group were fed the test diets for 12 weeks to examine the short-term effects of tamoxifen on arterial LDL metabolism. The rest of the monkeys were fed the test diets for 3 years to study the long-term effects of tamoxifen on development of atherosclerosis. In the short term, tamoxifen inhibited the rate of arterial accumulation of LDL degradation products overall (P = .03) and decreased hepatic cholesterol content (P = .003). In the long term, tamoxifen increased plasma concentrations of triglycerides (0.60 +/- 0.67 versus 0.23 +/- 0.02 mmol/L, P = .001) and reduced average LDL molecular weight (5.3 +/- 0.2 versus 4.8 +/- 0.1 g/mumol, P = 0.004) but had no effects on plasma total, LDL, or HDL cholesterol concentrations. Coronary artery atherosclerosis (intimal area, mean +/- SEM) was 0.25 +/- 0.06 mm2 in control monkeys and 0.12 +/- 0.03 mm2 in tamoxifen-treated monkeys (P = .057). We conclude that tamoxifen has antiatherogenic effects that may be modulated in part through direct effects on arterial LDL metabolism.

Even the study that you show in your site states:

RESULTS:

Compared with baseline, at 24 months, the toremifene group (n = 123) showed significantly decreased total cholesterol (P < 0.001) and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (P < 0.001), and significantly increased high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (P < 0.001). Their triglyceride levels were not affected (P = 0.677). The tamoxifen group (n = 120) also showed significantly decreased total cholesterol (P < 0.001) and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (P < 0.001); no significant changes occurred in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (P = 0.297) or triglyceride levels (P = 0.120).

Maybe i'm understanding all wrong, but my conclusions are way different...

LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, also called "bad" cholesterol) <--- Lowering this number would be considered an Improvement.

LDL cholesterol can build up on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting heart disease. That is why LDL cholesterol is referred to as "bad" cholesterol. The lower your LDL cholesterol number, the lower your risk

Originally Posted by AllAboutPeptides

LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, also called "bad" cholesterol) <--- Lowering this number would be considered an Improvement.

LDL cholesterol can build up on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting heart disease. That is why LDL cholesterol is referred to as "bad" cholesterol. The lower your LDL cholesterol number, the lower your risk

Yep, i misunderstood that. I interpreted "Improves LDL" as "Increases LDL". Sorry, my bad

Originally Posted by Robalo

Yep, i misunderstood that. I interpreted "Improves LDL" as "Increases LDL". Sorry, my bad

No worries my man.

That only tells one side of the story as Nolva also supresses IGF, the last t hing you want/need during PCT in my opinion.

Cardio will fix your lipids.

Originally Posted by AllAboutPeptides

LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, also called "bad" cholesterol) <--- Lowering this number would be considered an Improvement.

LDL cholesterol can build up on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting heart disease. That is why LDL cholesterol is referred to as "bad" cholesterol. The lower your LDL cholesterol number, the lower your risk

considered an improvement? yes... actually an improvement? debateable

Always nice to have new info.

I've been using Toremifene for PCT since 2009. didn't have much info on it back then but always felt it worked better than nolva or clomid.
My mood is also better on torimifene but that just might be a personal preference.

Bump for torem