Thread: Test C/Dbol/Var

8 weeks of orals not a good idea

I feel like 8 weeks of anavar would be fine.. I personally would just do 80mg var for 8 weeks with some liver support. Drop the dbol.

Originally Posted by jitbjake88

8 weeks of orals not a good idea

I want to stay lean but increase muscle mass as much as possible and I was hoping by take the var with the dbol it might combat the bloat a little bit and keep the muscle hardness. If you know something else that I could do that is some what of a basic stack I would be more then willing to hear suggestions. I am always up for suggestions.

Extend your cycle and run the cyp for 12-16 weeks then kick start with dbol to get the strength and mass going weeks 1-4. Finish last 4 weeks with var to tighten things up!

Why mix var and dbol? One is known for bloat and the other is known to keep you lean. I'd choose dbol to start at 40-50 mg a day then run the car at the end. It would be a waste to combine them IMO.

Get some metribol. I gained 17lbs while losing 3 belt sizes in 4wks. 1ml test prop, 1mg metribol.

Oh yeah and I didn't train legs that month

isn't that oral tren?

Effective dose: 5-15 mg / day
Average Street-price: Only available for research purposes.
Available Doses: None


Brands & Products: Originally produced by Negma, but never approved for production.

Characteristics:

Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity. So one could refer to methyltrienolone as oral trenbolone. It was first explored quite some time ago by Negma in France, the same company that marketed Parabolan (trenbolone). But the drug was never approved by the French government and was hence never produced. The reason was extreme hepatoxicity. Bill Roberts, the biochemist, once commented that taking methyltrienolone made taking insane doses of anadrol and Halotestin together look mild on the liver. While I was unable to find anything in the literature that describes the extent of the liver toxicity, it's a generally accepted fact. That's also why, to the dissapointment of many, you will never find a commercially marketed methyltrienolone product. Its only sold in bulk to labs and universities for research studies involving androgens.

Mainly because (and those who wish it was available will wish so even more now) its such a potent androgen. There is some conflicting information in that regard however. Organic chemist Patrick Arnold, head of LPJ research, once stated that methyltrienolone was the most powerful steroid ever, and that statement has been blown out of proportion and taken on a life of its own. While androgenically a very potent steroid, methyltrienolone is still basically trenbolone with a 17-alpha-methyl group. A group that has the tendency to actually reduce the androgenic potency. So it may actually be somewhat milder than trenbolone, on the contrary to what many pseudo steroid guru's are now claiming after reading Pat Arnold's statement. I can't find any other documented effects of the 17-alpha-alkylation influencing androgen binding in a positive way. It's a potent androgen, with more binding than even DHT2, but the study that claims that is mild at the very best about quantifications, whereas people have used the term 1000 times more powerful than testosterone, which is surely exaggerated.

What is interesting is that it seems to show nearly no binding for sex-hormone binding proteins, which makes it a por choice in androgen receptor studies3, since it will demonstrate equal binding in all tissues regardless of the presence and amount of these proteins. No doubt this plays a role in its supposed binding capacity. In this instance the 17-alpha-alkylation may have pla a key role, since it has been demonstrated a multitude of times that 17-alpha-methyl groups decrease the binding for sex-hormone binding proteins as well as most other structures, and due to its triple double bond, trenbolone really didn't bind well to these to begin with.

One of the findings made in clinical tests with methyltrienolone was the discovery of high amounts of the dihydrotestosterone-deactivating enzyme 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue4. Once again proof that God meant to keep us humans weak. Hurray for science. Follow-up studies then went on to show that dihydrotestosterone nonetheless showed similar binding in the prostate, and showing little or no presence of the deactivating enzyme. So God would rather have us all die of prostate cancer than gain a few ounces of muscle. It's a comforting thought, no?

What methyltrienolone, despite its amazing capacity, still doesn't overcome are the basic problems with any 19Nor compound. First of all its effects on Libido. Methyltrienolone still seems to affect our sex drive in such a potent manner that the dreaded Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - (temporary impotence) is a very real threat5. Another is that it still binds almost equipotently to the progesterone receptor3. The latter would be of little concern as long as no circulating estrogen is present since methyltrienolone does not aromatize, but could cause problems such as aggravating water retention and gynecomastia (growth of breast tissue in men) if combined with an aromatizing androgen or an estrogen.

While many may wish that an incredibly strong androgenic, non-aromatizing compound as this was available for daily use, its not. And if the indications are true, its probably best. I've warned many people for the toxicity of fluoxymesterone, and everything points to it that methyltrienolone makes fluoxymesterone look like Tums tablets in terms of liver toxicity.

Stacking and Use:

Obviously this section is mostly useless, as any who would use, let alone stack methyltrienolone for any decent period of time, wouldn't really be around long enough to tell us how well it worked. Ideally one would use it alone, while dieting or for the purpose of gaining lean mass. The androgenic potency is slightly higher than that of trenbolone, so the risk for aggravated hair loss, acne, prostate hypertrophy and deepening of voice is not only realistic, but almost likely. If one were to use it, you would probably have to use every trick in the book to protect your liver and stay alive: Alpha Lipoic Acid, Milk thistle, dessicated liver and Vitamin B6. The blood pressure raise would not be mild either. So something to lower blood pressure is advised as well.

Of course the best advice is to refrain from using such a compound, although for 99% of the potion that is not a problem, and I would assume that the 1% that does have access would know better.

References

2 Bonne C, Raynaud JP. Methyltrienolone, a specific ligand for cellular androgen receptors. Steroids 1975 Aug;26(2):227-32

3 Dube JY, Tremblay RR, Chapdelaine P. Binding of methyltrienolone to various androgen-dependent and androgen-responsive tissues in four animal species. Horm Res 1976;7(6):333-40

4 Tremblay RR, Dube JY, Ho-Kim MA, Lesage R. Determination of rat muscles androgen-receptor complexes with methyltrienolone. Steroids 1977 Feb;29(2):185-95

5 Baum MJ, Kingsbury PA, Erskine MS. Failure of the synthetic androgen 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-3-one (methyltrienolone, R1881) to duplicate the activational effect of testosterone on mating in castrated male rats. J Endocrinol 1987 Apr;113(1):15-20

^Can't take credit for this, but very interesting info either way.

Originally Posted by boss

Oh yeah and I didn't train legs that month

negged for not training legs

Originally Posted by D-Lats

Why mix var and dbol? One is known for bloat and the other is known to keep you lean. I'd choose dbol to start at 40-50 mg a day then run the car at the end. It would be a waste to combine them IMO.

exact what i was thinking man...


OP decide water you bulking up or cutting with the cycle if i was bulking id just use the dbol and test and save the money on var for chicken and steak

run ur cyp for 14 weeks and ur orals for 4-6 weeks that would be your best bet and not so hard on ur liver.

So when you say take my orals are you saying to stack them or to take the Dbol for the 1st 4 weeks then take the var?

Originally Posted by [QUOTE=jarhead1616

So when you say take my orals are you saying to stack them or to take the Dbol for the 1st 4 weeks then take the var?

That's what you should do:
the_predator;2980267]Extend your cycle and run the cyp for 12-16 weeks then kick start with dbol to get the strength and mass going weeks 1-4. Finish last 4 weeks with var to tighten things up![/QUOTE]

And IMO, cutting/bulking is mostly diet, not compound related especially with the availability of AIs.
Usually most of the compounds that are said to be for bulking are the ones that aromatize to E2 in high concentration. But if you use an AI on cycle, you can use the same "bulking" steroid, go on a cutting diet and have excellent results.

I didn't train legs because I was recovering from a rugby injury ...

Extend your cycle and run the cyp for 12-16 weeks then kick start with dbol to get the strength and mass going weeks 1-4. Finish last 4 weeks with var to tighten things up!

That's what I'm planning to do next!!!! 2nd cycle

Originally Posted by the_predator

effective dose: 5-15 mg / day
average street-price: Only available for research purposes.
Available doses: None


brands & products: Originally produced by negma, but never approved for production.

Characteristics:

Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (parabolan/finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity. So one could refer to methyltrienolone as oral trenbolone. It was first explored quite some time ago by negma in france, the same company that marketed parabolan (trenbolone). But the drug was never approved by the french government and was hence never produced. The reason was extreme hepatoxicity. Bill roberts, the biochemist, once commented that taking methyltrienolone made taking insane doses of anadrol and halotestin together look mild on the liver. While i was unable to find anything in the literature that describes the extent of the liver toxicity, it's a generally accepted fact. That's also why, to the dissapointment of many, you will never find a commercially marketed methyltrienolone product. Its only sold in bulk to labs and universities for research studies involving androgens.

Mainly because (and those who wish it was available will wish so even more now) its such a potent androgen. There is some conflicting information in that regard however. Organic chemist patrick arnold, head of lpj research, once stated that methyltrienolone was the most powerful steroid ever, and that statement has been blown out of proportion and taken on a life of its own. While androgenically a very potent steroid, methyltrienolone is still basically trenbolone with a 17-alpha-methyl group. A group that has the tendency to actually reduce the androgenic potency. So it may actually be somewhat milder than trenbolone, on the contrary to what many pseudo steroid guru's are now claiming after reading pat arnold's statement. I can't find any other documented effects of the 17-alpha-alkylation influencing androgen binding in a positive way. It's a potent androgen, with more binding than even dht2, but the study that claims that is mild at the very best about quantifications, whereas people have used the term 1000 times more powerful than testosterone, which is surely exaggerated.

What is interesting is that it seems to show nearly no binding for sex-hormone binding proteins, which makes it a por choice in androgen receptor studies3, since it will demonstrate equal binding in all tissues regardless of the presence and amount of these proteins. No doubt this plays a role in its supposed binding capacity. In this instance the 17-alpha-alkylation may have pla a key role, since it has been demonstrated a multitude of times that 17-alpha-methyl groups decrease the binding for sex-hormone binding proteins as well as most other structures, and due to its triple double bond, trenbolone really didn't bind well to these to begin with.

One of the findings made in clinical tests with methyltrienolone was the discovery of high amounts of the dihydrotestosterone-deactivating enzyme 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue4. Once again proof that god meant to keep us humans weak. Hurray for science. Follow-up studies then went on to show that dihydrotestosterone nonetheless showed similar binding in the prostate, and showing little or no presence of the deactivating enzyme. So god would rather have us all die of prostate cancer than gain a few ounces of muscle. It's a comforting thought, no?

What methyltrienolone, despite its amazing capacity, still doesn't overcome are the basic problems with any 19nor compound. First of all its effects on libido. Methyltrienolone still seems to affect our sex drive in such a potent manner that the dreaded deca-durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - (temporary impotence) is a very real threat5. Another is that it still binds almost equipotently to the progesterone receptor3. The latter would be of little concern as long as no circulating estrogen is present since methyltrienolone does not aromatize, but could cause problems such as aggravating water retention and gynecomastia (growth of breast tissue in men) if combined with an aromatizing androgen or an estrogen.

While many may wish that an incredibly strong androgenic, non-aromatizing compound as this was available for daily use, its not. And if the indications are true, its probably best. I've warned many people for the toxicity of fluoxymesterone, and everything points to it that methyltrienolone makes fluoxymesterone look like tums tablets in terms of liver toxicity.

Stacking and use:

Obviously this section is mostly useless, as any who would use, let alone stack methyltrienolone for any decent period of time, wouldn't really be around long enough to tell us how well it worked. Ideally one would use it alone, while dieting or for the purpose of gaining lean mass. The androgenic potency is slightly higher than that of trenbolone, so the risk for aggravated hair loss, acne, prostate hypertrophy and deepening of voice is not only realistic, but almost likely. If one were to use it, you would probably have to use every trick in the book to protect your liver and stay alive: Alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle, dessicated liver and vitamin b6. The blood pressure raise would not be mild either. So something to lower blood pressure is advised as well.

Of course the best advice is to refrain from using such a compound, although for 99% of the potion that is not a problem, and i would assume that the 1% that does have access would know better.

References

2 bonne c, raynaud jp. Methyltrienolone, a specific ligand for cellular androgen receptors. Steroids 1975 aug;26(2):227-32

3 dube jy, tremblay rr, chapdelaine p. Binding of methyltrienolone to various androgen-dependent and androgen-responsive tissues in four animal species. Horm res 1976;7(6):333-40

4 tremblay rr, dube jy, ho-kim ma, lesage r. Determination of rat muscles androgen-receptor complexes with methyltrienolone. Steroids 1977 feb;29(2):185-95

5 baum mj, kingsbury pa, erskine ms. Failure of the synthetic androgen 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-3-one (methyltrienolone, r1881) to duplicate the activational effect of testosterone on mating in castrated male rats. J endocrinol 1987 apr;113(1):15-20

do not listen to this post. Taking 5-15mg of methyltrienolone daily will certainly kill you

jesus i cant believe anyone would actually push methyltrien as a research chem and say to take mg's of it. it is proven effective at 250-500mcg (thats micrograms) daily for no more than 3 weeks, more like 2 tho, and will still destroy your liver enzymes. it is without a doubt the most toxic AAS available.

If you take mg's of this you will end up in the hospital within days from liver failure.

also why not just do dbol for the first 4 weeks, which is also liver toxic and will bloat you.

then the last 4 weeks on var which is liver mild and great for getting lean

"One of the findings made in clinical tests with methyltrienolone was the discovery of high amounts of the dihydrotestosterone-deactivating enzyme 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue4. Once again proof that god meant to keep us humans weak. Hurray for science. Follow-up studies then went on to show that dihydrotestosterone nonetheless showed similar binding in the prostate, and showing little or no presence of the deactivating enzyme. So god would rather have us all die of prostate cancer than gain a few ounces of muscle. It's a comforting thought, no?"

WHAT THE FUCK. where did you find this horseshit. please disregard that post about methyltrienolone.

this is just bad info that could possibly put someones life in danger.

Originally Posted by the_predator

^Can't take credit for this, but very interesting info either way.

dude where did you find that shit? that company/site/person is going to seriously injure someone. disturbing stuff for real

Also unlike that article/write up. it is available through certain labs in tabs of 500mcg. again thats 500 MICROGRAM tabs

dbol as your kick start and var at the end of your cycle keep it simple.

Originally Posted by jarhead1616

So when you say take my orals are you saying to stack them or to take the Dbol for the 1st 4 weeks then take the var?

Glycomann cycling basics: my opinion only

Required; testosterone base, primary anabolic, oral to push gains past the myostatin 8 week lag.
Optional: GH 2-6 iu/d 5 days a week; GHRP-2 + GRF 1-29 100 ug ea 2x/d; hCG 500 iu ETD

1-12 Test C/E 500 mg/w
1-12 Equipoise or Deca 500 mg
6-12 Anavar 80 mg/d or winstrol 50 mg/d
1-12 AI as needed

nolva is a SERM which is to battle prolactin side effects.
You need Adex or Aromisn which is an AI, this wil battle estrogen sides.
When you increase testosterone in you body it will try to counter balance by creating more estrogen. Also dbol can aromatize

Originally Posted by AugustWest

do not listen to this post. Taking 5-15mg of methyltrienolone daily will certainly kill you

jesus i cant believe anyone would actually push methyltrien as a research chem and say to take mg's of it. it is proven effective at 250-500mcg (thats micrograms) daily for no more than 3 weeks, more like 2 tho, and will still destroy your liver enzymes. it is without a doubt the most toxic AAS available.

If you take mg's of this you will end up in the hospital within days from liver failure.

AW.... I'm glad you caught the 5-15mg/day dosage 'recommendation'(I didn't see it, I only noticed it from reading further posts)...
This dosage they are talking about was more than likely mis-transposed along the way somewhere.. since that isn't generally how 'dosages' are listed in scientific trials(and that dose would kill a human possibly within 24 hours.....) More than likely, it was originally written as '.5mcg-15mcg/kg'(this is usually how 'dosages' are written out in scientific studies..... I haven't seen this original study, so I can't say for sure that it was mistransposed somewhere between the original study transcript and the posting here... but that is more than likely the case....)

Also, though this study actually was looking into androgenic effects, the 'normal' use for methytrienolone in research studies is to initiate acute hepatic failure(to test substances that are being studied to help with liver detox/regeneration)... This is what the author of that study means when he says 'research chemical'.. it is not referred to as a 'research chem' in the way that most people on the boards think of as 'research chems'(AI's, SERMS, dopamine agonists(prolactin antagonists), peptides, etc, etc....).. When they say 'research use' or 'research chem' in articles of this nature, it has a VERY strict meaning of being used for 'research purposes' by licensed researchers, in a lab setting(for the purpose of the above study(which is not a common study for methyltren.. but, nonetheless, was conducted...), and other studies(such as for causing acute hepatic failure), as I mentioned above...)

Anyone reading this thread should be FULLY aware of the RISKS with taking methyltren!!! NO INEXPERIENCED AAS USER SHOULD EVEN ATTEMPT USING METHYLTREN!(as they generally have the notion that 'more is better'... or they don't know enough about the substance,and they don't realize that it can seriously put you into liver failure nearly immediately if misused, misdosed, or if liver enzymes are already elevated, and the substance is added in anyway)...
Readers of this thread should also realize that methyltren is NOT used(by bodybuilders.. or anyone that wants to live) in the doses that are listed in the study!!!(like I said, I do believe there was a 'mistake' made somewhere along the line when this study was transposed.... )... Methyltren is available from UGL labs, and it is made in 250mcg(microgram), and 500mcg(microgram) tablets.... most bbers, or powerlifters, fighters(whatever the person's reason for taking it) use it in doses ranging from 250mcg ed(for only two weeks), to 500mcg ed(for one week)(though, obviously, some will exceed this dose, and length of time... it becomes VERY dangerous to do so!!! Especially if you are not having blood drawn weekly to check liver enzymes.... This stuff is used to 'destroy' test animal's livers so they can test 'liver meds' on the test animals.... that should be a clue to it's hepatotoxicity!!!

My attention was drawn to this post, by another member of IJ... so that I could post up the 'correction' on that dosage before a newbie went and took that dosage, and died....

To ALL readers of this thread, please do your research, and DO NOT take methyltren at those dosages(5-15mg), or at any dose, without first THOROUGHLY researching the compound, and realizing what it is capable of, EVEN at doses UNDER 1mg!!!!

Predator.... I'm sure you didn't realize that those numbers were probably wrong... I'm definitely NOT trying to rag on you for posting the study(it is actually very interesting...).. I just wanted to make sure that someone that didn't know much about methyltren, didn't go and start off taking 5 or 10mg ed of this stuff.... Just wanting to clear that up.... Thanks for posting that study up, though.. I only felt it the best thing to do, to correct that 'error'(I don't know what the actual study said.. but I'm sure those numbers were 'messed up' by the time it got posted here...)