I have two questions regarding t3.
1. How long can t3 be ran?
2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.
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I have two questions regarding t3.
1. How long can t3 be ran?
2. Is tapering up/down nessesary with dose ive researched and read numerous things it is nessesary and it is not.
So many variables. You shouldn't be running it without AAS. With a high power cycle, maybe 8 Weeks tops. Average cycle, no more than 4 Weeks. I don't taper up or down, but I run 50mcg straight through, only while on high dose Tren. No higher than 50.
I run mine for six weeks, I prefer to tapper my dose up than back down. I never run it with out being on gear.
It is very important to taper your doses. This will help with metabolic ramp up and ramp down. It is a bad idea to go cold turkey off t3 as this will hamper/prolong your thyroid from returning to normal function. It will eventually return to normal function(99% of the time) anyway but will just take longer without proper tapering protocol. The longer it takes to get back to normal the harder it will be to keep weight(fat) off. Also for length...guys have run this stuff for a year straight and returned to normal after. Would I...hell no, but it can be done. You could run it the length of your cycle and be g2g. But, as above posted, it would be in your best interests to run this with gear. I came across a great article not to long ago. I will try to post if I can find it.
I will reply with questions...are you running t3 alone? what will your dosage be? what are your goals?Quote:
Originally Posted by kstar5
Max 4-6 weeks, and max 100mcg daily. Very often less weeks and mcg....
You can run 25mcg-50mcg indefinitely probably and suffer no ill effects. Some people feel tapering makes them feel better and it may or may not help with recovery (which will happen no matter what within a few months), but that hasn't been studied. What has been studied is T3 is completely harmless at responsible dosages and that you shouldn't use it without anabolics because it strips muscle as well as fat. It also flattens you out like crazy at anything over 25mcg per day.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING about running T3 is the slow taper on the back end.Quote:
Originally Posted by kstar5
Oh look tons of different opinions.
Thanks for input ayQuote:
Originally Posted by Agentyes
Thanks for inputQuote:
Originally Posted by the_predator
I feel like you can run it longer than people have stated here.
I taper up to 100 and then back down
You can run it for quite a long time and still recover full thyroid function. I read a write up on this by Nandi that ref a study where after over 9 months of full thyroid shutdown the participants recovered full thyroid function within 2 months. I'm not saying we should run it that long but i wouldn't hesitate to go 10-12 weeks. Tapering is silly if you do it to aid function. Its for comfort and doesn't need to be done as slowly up or down as people do it.
I don't find a need to taper it either.. Also you can run it damn long without much problem.. I like 50mcg myself.
The taper is to allow your own thyroid function to slowly return to normal.
Not to argue, but that has been debated tons of times.. Everyone has their own opinions about it
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstar5
1. You can run it as long as you want.
2. Tapering up in not necessary at all, going down is debateable. I never go over 50mcgs, so I don't need to taper.
Guys running higher amounts of T3 (ABOVE 50-75mcgs) need to focus more on their diets and cardio. The T3 is there to keep your metabolism running high, not do all of the work for you.
Say Im eating 3500 cals daily and I incorporate 50mcg of T3 daily. how much will that effect my metabolism/cal needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ
As in eating 3500 cals with 50mcg T3 is more like just eating 3000 cals daily. Obv I know its dif per person, just looking for a ballpark or in your experience.
P.S. Just trying to adjust my cal needs per day for my cycle. Once i add the T3/Clen i obviously dont wanna be eating too little.
It's impossible to say, it would cause different changes in different people. If your diet and cardio are spot on FIRST, THEN AND ONLY THEN add the T3.Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustWest
That is like saying your gonna drop your test from 1g/week to 750mg to 500mg so testicular function slowly returns to normal. It doesn't work that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentyes
well how do I know my diet is spot on if I dont know what sort of metabolic increasing effect those compounds will have? for now, my diet is spot on. do I basically just go by how my body reacts?Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ
Not exactly. Most sensible people that run a gram of test a week for an extended cycle use hcg on cycle and a pct with clomid after to restart the hpt axis so yiur point is not relevant to T3 unless the is an alternative way to restart natural thyroid function.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup
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It a completely relevant analogy. Tapering doses with either does nothing to promote recovery of function any more quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave 236
No its not. There are varying opinions about this subject. But the irrelevance comes from you comparing two things that are completely different when it comes to the protocol of how they're used. I could just as easily say that tapering does work and thats why you taper down doses of corticol steroids or ssris and that proves it but id be comparing things with completely different mechanisms as well. And it would be irrelevant.
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Yes you could but that would just demonstrate that you are unaware of glucocorticoid withdrawal and why they taper corticosteroids and also unaware of withdrawal symptoms of immediate ssri discontinuation.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave 236
The only reason to taper t3 is comfort. Dropping from 100mg to 50 mcg wont make your thyroid less "shut down"so to speak. You can feel free to disagree - thats fine. However people used to think tapering aas sped recovery of testicular function - till they learned better. Its the same with t3 and thyroid function (albeit Nandi put it to bed around 7 or 8 years ago). Do and beleive what you wish and if you cant see the relevance of that analogy I apologize.
There is absolutely NO NEED to taper once you decide you want to go off. In fact, it is a BAD idea. Gradually reducing your T3 dosage does NOT result in a quicker recovery...it prolongs it by exposing the body to the suppressive effect of the drug for a longer period of time. Just like with AAS, the body will not begin to recover its own production of T3 until exogenous T3 is eliminated...or nearly so.
We also used to believe that tapering steroids was the right thing to do. Bro-science claimed that by gradually reducing the dose, the body would not be exposed to a rapid decline in hormone levels and therefore, would escape the "shock" of a hormonal dive-bomb. In terms of recovery, we also thought that if we gradually reduced the dose, it would "prepare" the body for producing its own testosterone by more subtly bringing our hormone levels back to normal.
However, what we didn't understand at that time is that steroids, even at low dosages, still retain their strong suppressive influence on the HPTA. By gradually reducing the dosage, all we were accomplishing was making recovery take even longer! It is the same with T3. If we want to recover from exogenous T3 as quickly as possible, we must eliminate T3 completely, all at once. This way, the thyroid gland is forced to resume production at full force, as it attempts to correct the deficiency. If we graudally reducing the dose, the body doesn't have any sense of urgency when it comes to restoring maximal production, as it is still being supplied with exogenous T3.
In conclusion, when you are ready to end your cycle, do NOT taper. Tapering with T3 is a myth...100% bro-science with no scientific validation. You should treat T3 just like you treat AAS...get in, hit it hard and when you're done...you're done. None of this fucking around, gradually reducing your dose bullshit.
It is also a myth that using T3 beyond 9 weeks will permanently shutdown one's natural production. Studies have shown that even a full replacment dose of T3 taken for nearly a year did not result in permamant suppression, with users experiencing a full recovery within a relatively short period of time after discontinuing exogneous T3. In the real-world, numerous individuals have run T3 for extended period of time and experienced a full recovery after just a few months. Still, in my opinion, T3 is not a drug which should be used long-term just for the hell of it.
As far as tapering from the start of the cycle, this is generaly a good idea if you plan of going above 50 mcg per day. At doses of 50 mcg and under, a taper is not needed. If you don't know what dose is ideal for you, it is wise to start on the lower end and gradually work up as needed. If you start off higher than what you need, it could negatively affect lean mass retention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup
See bold above: Correct. There is ZERO reason to taper T3.
When you stop losing weight or plateau you'll need to change the diet and then add in some T3 if your carbs are low enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustWest
Subbed. Good conversation guys. I'm in week 7 of T3. No longer going to taper off. I believe thyroid won't slowly startup as T3 slowly decreases.
Nice discussion