planned out thoroughly..
will be a waste of time tho![]()

To start off, I've been lifting natty for about 4 years. I'm turning 22 in a few months, and as of a couple months ago I was up to 220lbs at about 20% bf. I've cut down to 195lbs while continuing my lifting routine and dieting very strictly. I have never tried juice and/or PH's before, but after a couple months worth of research I believe I'm about ready for my first cycle.
I've plateaued multiple times, breaking through each one with changes in diet and routine. Lately, I've been stuck in a rut and I'm ready to push past it with a little help. I would prefer to not jump to actual AAS for now, but rather stick to PH's for the sake of legality and inexperience in acquiring such things.
My current stats are:
- almost 22 y/o
- 6', 195lbs
- Bench: 305lbs
- Squat: 415lbs
- Deadlift: 440lbs
My goals are to cut down my bf% from an estimated 16% to closer to 10%, though I won't expect to do all of that on the cycle alone. For this reason, I really want to take 11-oxo, as well as havoc (epi) for the sake of making some gains at the same time. Weight is not my goal, but rather leaning out and replacing fat with muscle.
Here's a rough draft of my proposed cycle: (subject to heavy changes)
- Week 1-2: Pre-game with: cycle assist, fish oil, multi, TUDCA, and cissus (continue all throughout cycle and PCT)
- Week 3-6: Epi at 20/30/30/40 (I would like to start slow to test responsivness, being as it's my first cycle)
- Week 4-9: 11-oxo at ~500mg per day for 6 weeks
- Week 10-13: Nolva at 40/30/20/10, plus Erase, Lean Xtreme, creatine, and D-AA, as well as the supps from week 1-2
What I'm not sure of is redundancy in my PCT and pre-cycle stacks, nor if I have proper doses for my PH's. Also, I'm really looking for more information on when to start the 11-oxo, whether I should start it before, with, or after the epi altogether. I have no idea how sensitive I will be to gyno, so I'm understandably concerned.
Thank you everyone for your input.
planned out thoroughly..
will be a waste of time tho![]()

Care to elaborate on that input please? I can't tell if you frown upon PH's altogether or just what I chose to run.


post your diet and be honest dont make shit up cause im asking. What do you eat every day and do you get the proper macros?
"Stop what you're doing, cuz I'm about to ruin, the image and the sound you're used to. Look here, I love that Humpty song. Stop cramping my style, man." SI
Current Work out Method: Doggcrapp Training

It's a waste because those dosages are really low and the cycle is short. Epi takes 3-4 weeks to fully "kick" in. Grab another bottle and run it 45 days at 40mg/day. And the 11oxo is a weak, WEAK compound. Run it higher dosed for anything besides moderate cort control. Tbh, a better looking cycle would be
11-oxo: 900+ for 8 weeks
Epi: 40-60 for 6 weeks.
Cutting? Throw in clen at 2 on 2 off. This would officially look like my first cycle. I even ran about 50mcg t3 with it too, but I was stupid back then. So don't do that. But it's a weaker cycle than you think.

Thanks for the help guys. My diet is currently 1900 cals a day with 200g of protein. For the sake of simplicity I just follow those numbers for my daily intake while trying to eat fresh and unprocessed meals at spread out intervals.