Increasing collagen synthesis

**Mudge** · 05-17-2003, 12:49 AM

Quote:

originally posted by AnimalMass

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

gr81 · 05-19-2003, 02:33 AM

very nice MUDGE. That is why I am stackin the EQ with my test. good post though, great for AS newbies that don't already know this!

aceman · 05-20-2003, 01:44 AM

Great research man, that really clears up some of the problems I have been having taking only cyp. I have had some tendonitis around the elbow for along time. Of course now that I think about it, the last cycle before that I did combine cyp and deca and still had some tendonitis problems. My next cycle I am going to add back the deca and see if it helps with the problem. One more question, is there anything out there you can get at a health supplement store to increase collagen growth for the tendons?

slow · 06-01-2003, 12:19 PM

I never knew that. thanks mudge. I am a collegiate hurdler and during my cycle of enan. winny and fina. i would be sore all the time after practice and any workouts. I think my next of season cycle will be test enan 500mg a week and eq, maybe some fina also.

**Mudge** · 06-01-2003, 12:51 PM

Ace, some people go with Chondroitin or a Glucosamine and Chondroitin mix as a way to help with joint pain. I haven't tried it though myself, ask in the legal supplement forum and I think you'll find some people that have. One thing thats true with gear is simply the quick strength gains are going to be a challenge for the body as well.

Here is something I found, hopefully accurate and informative:
http://www.consumerlab.com/results/gluco.asp

aceman · 06-02-2003, 11:37 PM

Thanks for the info mudge. I was already thinking of trying that and have already started doing so. I will let everyone know how it works out. Some people who I have talked to say it works for them and others say it did not. We shall see.

Fit Freak · 06-03-2003, 06:10 AM

Excellent information Mudge

**Mudge** · 06-03-2003, 11:45 AM

05-20-2003, 01:44 AM	#3
aceman Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 88	thanks Great research man, that really clears up some of the problems I have been having taking only cyp. I have had some tendonitis around the elbow for along time. Of course now that I think about it, the last cycle before that I did combine cyp and deca and still had some tendonitis problems. My next cycle I am going to add back the deca and see if it helps with the problem. One more question, is there anything out there you can get at a health supplement store to increase collagen growth for the tendons? Last edited by aceman : 05-20-2003 at 02:08 AM.

06-01-2003, 12:51 PM	#5
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Ace, some people go with Chondroitin or a Glucosamine and Chondroitin mix as a way to help with joint pain. I haven't tried it though myself, ask in the legal supplement forum and I think you'll find some people that have. One thing thats true with gear is simply the quick strength gains are going to be a challenge for the body as well. Here is something I found, hopefully accurate and informative: http://www.consumerlab.com/results/gluco.asp Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-02-2003, 11:37 PM	#6
aceman Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 88	Thanks Thanks for the info mudge. I was already thinking of trying that and have already started doing so. I will let everyone know how it works out. Some people who I have talked to say it works for them and others say it did not. We shall see.

06-03-2003, 06:10 AM	#7
Fit Freak Fit Freak Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,797 Photos: 6	Excellent information Mudge Searching for the right balance...

06-03-2003, 11:45 AM	#8
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

05-19-2003, 02:33 AM	#2
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	very nice MUDGE. That is why I am stackin the EQ with my test. good post though, great for AS newbies that don't already know this!

06-01-2003, 12:19 PM	#4
slow Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 32	I never knew that. thanks mudge. I am a collegiate hurdler and during my cycle of enan. winny and fina. i would be sore all the time after practice and any workouts. I think my next of season cycle will be test enan 500mg a week and eq, maybe some fina also.

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