Mudge

You would have your blood checked out before you ever started a cycle to find out what your natural levels are, although it can fluctuate to some extent. Alot of people find that thier natural test is very low, 50 times lower than normal is not unheard of (I've seen a recent 7 and most people are 300 minimum). This is one reason why blood work is highly recommended for those that are serious about thier long term health, as well as maximum results. I can try and re-find a blood test from someone and will post in a couple hours.

Some others find that after clomid therapy though that thier natural test levels are higher than previously, so some people seem to recover well.

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Mudge

Here is one, not rock bottom levels though (test wise).

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aceman

wow those numbers are pretty out of whack. I don't think I have ever had those kind of numbers in the 2 years I have been on gear. I feel pretty good about my numbers now. Usually my liver enzymes are up slightly. Of course I only do injectables which are not supposed to be as harsh on the body. Have you been to a physician about those numbers. You may have to stay on HCG for a while to get things back up.

Mudge

Droid is not a member of this board.

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aceman

I thought those were numbers you were putting up were for one of your blood tests.

Mudge

Nope, just passing one along that I saw recently I have seen at least one where total test was 6 or 7, I forget how long they were using for, but I would definately say everyone seems to react differently no matter following the same post cycle or not. Fina does not seem to affect as much as people thought, Deca though does, again only from what I've seen.

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Just a guy

Im new to the forum but yes i am registered. I have been reading what you have been talking about on this certain topic.... and you all seem pretty educated......

I'm a 19 yearold still in highschool (2nd year senior), and i have been taking mimic steroids such as D-bol (www.legalsteroids.com)
which are blends of andro's and nor androstene's which were in capps of 266 mg's! at 2-8 times a day. And recently i have ordered some real deal dianabol from across seas and there no fakes.

The question is... What should i do to stay safe? As in liver level's and decrease of Natural testosterone. I have had elevated liver level before... like 12 times as high... but that was because of drug use with mix of steroids prolly (the fake roids).
Any feed back on this would be wonderful. OH yeh and i got 2 different kinds of dianabol..... Anabol (the pink 5mg ones)
and the other one is blue... methadrostenol or something like that.

I appreciate it!

repoj

Well dude I can say this much-if you got your D-BOL from (www.legalsteroids.com), than you probably got ripped off. I have read soo many articles from that website on how they talk a good one, but when it came down to it there shit is just that.
I don't know what gains if any you got from the stuff, real D-BOL will grant you great streangth, and mass. It will also give you some water retention if your not using and estrogen blocker like NOLVADEX or a better one yet PROVIRON. And at 266mg's a tab, that's fucking insane!!!! The first time I tried ACTUAL DIANABOL tabe they were in 5 mg tabs and gave me awesome results with a strict training regemine and diet plan.
A haven't taken any ANABOL or ANADROL as it is also called I believe simply because I have no interest in it fir two reasons: 1-It's allot more harmfull to your liver than the REAL D-BOL, I hear it gives great gains and mass-far surpassing D-BOL, but it is also the most harmfull oral. This is a quote from a reliable website-
"Anadrol 50 is unfortunately also the most harmful oral steroid. Its intake can cause many considerable side effects. Since it is I 7-alpha alkylated it is very liver-toxic. Most users can expect certain patho-logical changes in their liver values after approximately one week."
the second reason that I have never tried it is simply because I am in a stage of my building right now comming off some real D-bol, and my next step is an injectible. I have NEVER tried an injectible so I will not try to diss-prove any of the big-boy's out there that know better. But I will say this much, between an oral and an injectible-injection is the best way to go. It's less-MUCH less harmfull on the liver and gives allot better convenience once you get passed the whole needle-steroid-jock bodybuilder thing. Just decide what you wanna do, be a big boy and do it.
But i think that some things should be concidered for ya here buddy to get the best out of your gear: Make sure that your taking and anti-estrogen or an estrogen blocker such as NOLVADEX, PROVIRON or ARIMIDEX. In my experience, taking anything over 50 mg's of D-BOL a day is futile as it lasts for only 5 hours at best of half life-so push HARD i your workouts. EAT like crazy-DUH, also if your concerned about the water retention that D-bol or ANADROL can give you, NOLVE will help reduse it.
And it sounds like you'v already figured out that taking conventional shit like narcotics and GEAR don't mix. One or the other buddy, at least with roids-the only addiction you get is a bloated ego among the more SERIOUSE side-effects.

Mudge

I think by his post he knows he was buying bunk stuff before.

Anywho, I wouldn't run dbol alone but thats just me. Milk thistle for the liver, couple other substances that skip my mind.

BUSTINOUT

The question right now is not so much how to stay safe health wise, but rather how to stay safe legal wise. Sounds like your stuff still has to make it through customs.

mattydubs

Mudge, I'm a first time sus-250 user too, and have a few basic questions.
First off, I'm 5"10, 165 lbs, slim build, bf% is low, 22 years old. I've only been injecting 250 of sus once a week for a week and a half. I am already suprised with the results. I am not stacking, but am currently happy with what it's been doing for me. A little problem: I live in a 'sober house' required by court, so a lot of the time I'm unable to go to the gym. I'm doing 200 + pushups a day, eating about 5 meals, squats, crunches, and whatever I can with 30 and 40 lb barbells.

1.) should I be seeing resulsts like this so early?
2.) is $75 for 5 amps of sus too much?
3.) should i stack? if so, with what and how expensive is it?
4.) will I be able to maintain my weight/muscle mass after a 12 week cycle of 1 shot per week of sus?
5.) are the excercises I'm doing effective to become shredded with some bulk?
thanks

LAM

sust is overrated for testosterone supplementation for sports or physical enhancement. It was originally designed for HRT as a 1x a month steroid treatment, the different esters contained in sust offer no advantages.

testosterone enanthate or cypionate are much better choices. all you need is 500 mg/wk for 10 weeks.

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

deeno

1. Yes, from the prop in the sust
2. Yes, 15 bucks an amp is pricey
3. As Lam stated, Test is all you need, so there is no need to stack.
4. Maintenance depends on diet and PCT (nolva/clomid)
5. IMO, you need to lift heavy and though I love push ups, they just don't cut it.

mattydubs

thanks for your hepl, guys

"testosterone enanthate or cypionate are much better choices. all you need is 500 mg/wk for 10 weeks."

why are people knocking sus? are those two much better than sus? It's weird because I'm seeing noticeable results, as are other people. especially in my shoulders, back, and chest. i want to be bigger, but mainly i want to be cut the fuck up. i don't wanna be over 200 lbs. any more suggestions or things to consider as i continue this cycle? i mean, i already bought the sus but after this i will consider stacking/switching methods.

LAM

do you know the differences between the various esters of the 4 types of test contained in sust ?

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

mattydubs

no, i'm completely new to this. i'm actually doing research as we speak.

LAM

once you understand how the different esters in sust work then you will know why it is not as effective as a sports supplement when compaired to enanthate or cypionate

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

Mudge

Sustanon is overpriced. That is really the only reason I can see to avoid it. People argue left and right about what the esters do, its still test though - just overpriced test.

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mattydubs

ok. i don't care about the price, but i want to know what will be the best for my goal:

gain 20 lbs
get cut, not big and fluffly
maintain it

1/2) how long of a cycle do you think i will have to do complete this goal, and what stackers would you reccomend on top of sus?

AND

3) should i up the sus from 250 a week to 500?

4) is it safe or even worth it to take nytric oxide during this cycle?

i'm into the second week and doing 250 sus weekly currently (165 lbs, 5"10, low bf%, 22 yrs old)

Mudge

Test is test, there is no real reason to use sustanon over another. When I speak of price, I'm stating that its a waste.

If bottled water from France should cost more than from the USA though hey, whatever. If someone pays the price its obviously not overpriced to them.

You need to decide if you want to bulk or cut, not both.

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mattydubs

ideally i'd like to bulk then cut. this is not possible?

i'd rather be cut, but i want to put on atleast 10 more lbs before i do so.

what do you suggest mudge?

Tha Don

agreed, i'd go with test en or cyp over sust, en and cyp are also gonna give you more test ml for ml so gains should be more pronounced

Tha Don

well run a bulker, 10 weeks of test should be fine for this, take a little time off to maintain your gains, let your HPTA recover etc... then run a cutter

FYI that is what i plan to do later on this year, but i'm cutting without the AS first, because A) i can't stand being at 16% bodyfat, i look chubby as hell being an ectomorph with more than a couple of pounds of fat on me! and B) to reduce the possibility of gyno and edema on my first cycle

mattydubs

young d,

1. what are the names of some cutters?

2. what are the name of some bulkers?

3. what combos should i use?

4. for how long?

cut is what i want, i've made the decision

mattydubs

and can i use sus as a bulker if i cycle for 10 weeks?

Mudge

Of course, but when you say put on 20 pounds AND lose bodyfat you sound like you are asking to do both at the same time. You might be talking 30 total pounds there since you are trying to eventually add 20 pounds to your frame.

Bulking or cutting is almost purely dietary.

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mattydubs

ok so mudge... you are seriously helping me undestand this more and i wanna thank you for that, bro. if i'm an idiot, tell me, but this is what i have in mind:

i'm gonna obviously start off by bulking: i'm THINKING 10 weeks sus 250 a week, THEN upping to 500 week 3-6, THEN back to 250 until week tenth week when i stop. My diet will be mainly carbs.

cut: chicken, fish, meat with little/no carbs using sus 500 mg a week for 6 weeks.

suggestions? accurate for bulk>cut?

Sherpa

Since this is your first cycle, and you havent tried it before. Try Just using diet to cut. Thats what I do. After pct from your first cycle, and some time off "when your weight / gains are stable". Lower you calories by around 500 a day for a couple of weeks, and continue to work out as usual.

If that doesnt work for you, lower your calories 500 more per day, and continue until your as cut as you would like. Then up your calories by the amount you cut out when you started cutting, and you were staying the same weight, then you should stay where you want to be.


Sherpa.

mattydubs

diet is a lot bigger than i though. thankyou sherpa that makes a lot of sense.

Mudge

I would run the same dose throughout, there is no need to taper, it doesn't help recovery.

I have had up to 60% of my dietary calories as carbs, I dont know what you mean "mainly carbs" exactly but keep in mind muscle is made up of proteins, not carbs. So keep the protein somewhat high as well, 1.5 grams per pound or thereabouts is a decent figure.

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