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Anabolic Zone Discussion of anabolic steroids; brands, cycles, what works, etc.
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Hcg
07-07-2003, 02:35 PM
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#1
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Dieting I swear!
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Here
Posts: 23,470
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Hcg
HCG FAQ .... Compliments of Superchicken
Quote:
What is HCG?- hcg stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.
Where does hcg come from?-it is extracted from the urine of pregnant women.
Is hcg a scheduled medication?- certain states in the usa it is now a scheduled drug, but mostly its considered similar to having liquidex or clomid.
What is hcg normally used for?-it is used to help females get pregnant, and can be used to stimulate testosterone production in males.
How does hcg work?- hcg mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.
Can I use hcg only after a cycle?-no you shouldnt. it is better than nothing, but clomid or nolva are far better plans. Since hcg mimics lh, your body wont begin producing its own lh, as it sees no need to because test levels are high. You stop the hcg, your balls stop making test until your body begins producing adequate levels of its own lh, and that may take a while if you dont use clomid or nolvadex to stimulate lh production.
Can hcg be used w/out steroids to boost test production above baseline?- yes. It is not recommended however. Continued use of hcg will desensitize the leydig cells to lh, meaning once you stop using the hcg as an artificial lh, you will crash bad. The natural lh production once restored by using nolvadex or clomid, may not be as effective as it once was. to boost natural test above baseline, anastrozole, nolvadex and clomid are better choices.
What should hcg be used for?-hcg is commonly used by bodybuilders on either very heavy or very long cycles, when the hpta gets severely suppressed. Although hcg can be used in almost any cycle, the benefits are most pronounced on heavy/long ones.
How long does hcg boost testosterone for?- hcg can boost testosterone for up to 5 days following the last dose, although the drugs halflife is very short, and its no longer active at that point.
Can hcg cause gyno?-Yes. Estrogen is elevated by two ways from hcg use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly hcg can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatose such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the hpta during hcg therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy.
How does hcg come packaged?-you get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent). The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. Depending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.
If your package is 5000iu, and you add 1ml diluent, you have 5000iu per ml.
If you add 5ml diluent, you final mix is then 1000iu per ml.
If you add 10ml diluent, then 500iu per ml and so on.
This is simple math, and you dont wanna screw it up-know what dose you are taking!
If your package doesnt include enough diluent to make the concentration you want, you have 2 options to make it easy to accurately measure your doses.
1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Ius are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this.
So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.
2-buy some bacteriostatic water off the internet, its easily found. Simply add more to dilute it to the desired conscentration. Making lower concentrations are easier and more accurately dosed. Then it can accurately be measured w/ a regular syringe.
Mix the two together, they dissolve very easily. Keep things sterile folks. Unused hcg can be refrigerated and is ok to use for about a month after the initial mixing. You can purchase empty sterile vials from a few online sites cheap. http://www.getpinz.com is a good place to get insulin syringes as well as bacteriostatic water.
Heres a typical example of a proper post cycle recovery including hcg. Dosage will vary depending on how suppressed your hpta is, and how well you respond to hcg, but this is normally a good starting point, more is not necessarily better. Some will respond better to 750iu ed or even 1000iu ed, actually everyone will respond better to 1000iu ed, but we dont want to desensitize the leydig cells, which would make clomid treatment less effective. Everyone is different, start at 500iu ed, and if after 5-6 days your balls arent noticeably bigger and hanging lower, consider a slightly higher dose. I know I respond very well and quickly to small doses, but that may not be the case for you.
Here is a good link for a profile on hcg. i however dont agree w/ everthing said in it, particuarly the dosing schedule they recomend click here
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Find out when you would normally start your clomid therapy.
Inject hcg 500iu everyday, either intramuscular or sub q, for 10-14 days. Place the hcg so that the LAST hcg shot is about 5 days before clomid therapy starts.
Run clomid like you normally would, which is usually 3-4 wks of clomid therapy in a descending dose. Using 300mg clomid the first day is a good idea.
Anti estrogens should definitely be used during during hcg therapy. Both an anti aromatose such as liquidex, arimidex, letrozole, or aromasin, as well as nolvadex ideally should be used, although just nolvadex can suffice, as well as just an anti aromatose. However everyone is different when it comes to sensitivity to estrogen induced gyno. A combo of both types of anti es is best and ensures your safety from gyno. i highly recomend having nolvadex included ALWAYS!
An example cycle:
Wks 1-10 enanthate 1000mg wk
Wks 1-12 tren 100mg ed
Wks 5-12 winstrol 50mg ed.
Wks 1-16 liquidex 1mg ed
Last shot of enanthate is day 70.
Last shot of winny and tren are day 84.
Hcg is run days 72-82, 500iu ed.
Nolvadex is run 10mg ed days 72-87.
Clomid is run on days 87-108.
Some may prefer to use nolvadex in place of clomid, but thats not the discussion here, although its ok to do so. Some may also prefer to use higher doses and/or longer clomid therapy, which is also ok.
By using the proper combo of post cycle therapy drugs along w/ proper placement and timing, chances of an excellent recovery are maximized. You keep more gains, and you dont crash hard.
Clearance times for various AS for clomid therapy to begin:
Anadrol50/Anapolan50.......8-12 hours
deca Durobolan................3 weeks
Dianabol.........................4-8 hours
Equipoise........................17-21 days
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days
Sustanon.........................3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days
Test Suspension................4-8 hours
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours
If your taking substantial doses ex. 1g+ of test, you may wish to add 1/3 extra time to the above clearance times before starting clomid. This is optional
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12-11-2003, 04:51 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 1
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Good luck finding it, no asking for sources in the open. It is not terribly easy to find, you are correct - not all sources are interested in carrying it.
-mod edit
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12-12-2003, 02:20 PM
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#3
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Member
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 313
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Very good instructions on use and how to make the dilution and the necessity of insulin pins.
Success is measured not by the position that one has reached in life, rather by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed.
Booker T. Washington
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12-18-2003, 12:32 PM
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#4
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IFBB Professional
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: N/A
Posts: 48
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great post! I personnally take HCG mid-cycle. Clomid and nolva post cycle.
N/A
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12-18-2003, 03:35 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: cali
Posts: 644
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any one ever tried Chads theory on hcg based recovery? Hes not the only one I know who advocates hcg only post cycle recovery. just any input?
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12-18-2003, 04:02 PM
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#6
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Dieting I swear!
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Here
Posts: 23,470
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The last time I ran it, since I got it so late, I ran it basically after my last shot - then started PCT immediately after. I would rather avoid the shrinkage though altogether.
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12-18-2003, 11:27 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: cali
Posts: 644
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yeah i normaly only use it every 6 weeks in cycle but this high doesage means hcg on based recovery is fascinating the hell out of me
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