Roid rage

**Mudge** · 09-27-2003, 07:25 PM

Steroids Don't Cause Rage

BOSTON - Body builders already believe it, and science has finally proved it: Steroids make big muscles. But researchers found no evidence that steroids make users prone to outbursts of anger known as "'roid rage." The carefully controlled study showed convincingly for the first time that a few weeks of male sex hormone injections substantially beef up arms and legs and increase strength.

Men who exercised and took steroids for 10 weeks put on an average of 13 pounds of virtually pure muscle and could bench press an extra 48 pounds. In addition, psychological tests and questioning of the men's spouses found no evidence that steroids made them angrier or more aggressive.

Steroids are widely thought to cause extreme mood swings, and people charged with violent crimes have pleaded roid rage as a defense. But among steroid users who are mentally healthy, "testosterone doesn't turn men into beasts," said Dr. Shalender Bhasin of Charles R. Drew University in Los Angeles. Bhasin left open the possibility that in people who are mentally unbalanced to begin with, steroids can make them worse.

Bhasin and his colleagues said their results in no way legitimize steroid use by athletes. But they do suggest steroids might be a good way to help AIDS patients and others whose muscles waste away because of disease.

Possession and distribution of steroids without a prescription is a federal crime, punishable by up to a year in prison and a fine of at least $1,000. Doctors have warned that the potential side effects include sterility, testicular shrinkage, acne, abnormal liver function, baldness, high blood pressure and heart disease. In 1991, former football star Lyle Alzado publicly blamed steroid use for his inoperable brain cancer.

Despite the seemingly obvious evidence of weightlifters' bulging pecs, some doctors have doubted whether steroids really work. They argue that exercise, not injections, explains their muscles. "Intense debate on this issue has been raging for 30 or 40 years," Bhasin said. Earlier studies were flawed, in part because researchers gave only small amounts of steroids and failed to control the volunteers' exercise or diets.

To help settle the question, Bhasin and colleagues recruited 43 male volunteers and put them on a standard diet. They randomly assigned them to get either dummy shots or moderately high injections of testosterone enanthate, one of several anabolic steroids used by athletes.

Throughout the study, no one knew who was getting the real steroid shots. In both groups, half the men were either put on a weightlifting program or asked not to work out. The results, published in Thursday's issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, were clear and dramatic.

Those who took steroids but did nothing else improved their muscles and strength about as much or more than did those who exercised but got dummy shots. By far the most impressive change was seen in men who both exercised and got steroids. By the end of the experiment, men who got steroids but didn't exercise could bench press an extra 20 pounds, about the same as those who worked out but didn't get steroids. However, those who both took steroids and exercised could bench press an additional 48 pounds, a 23% increase.

Those who got steroid shots but did not exercise gained seven pounds of fat-free mass, which is mostly muscle, compared with an extra four pounds in those who exercised without steroids. Men who both exercised and got steroids put on 13 pounds.

The researchers saw similar differences in the size of the men's thigh and forearm muscles and in their ability to lift in squatting exercises. "The major implication is not to rationalize the abuse of steroids by athletes," Bhasin said. "It provides a rationale for testing the idea that short-term, cautious use of testosterone may prevent muscle wasting in cancer, HIV, obstructive lung disease and other chronic illnesses."

In the study, the men took weekly injections of 600-milligram doses for 10 weeks. This gave them about six to eight times more testosterone than their bodies produced naturally. Dr. C. Wayne Bardin of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development said the study also holds good news for athletes who don't resort to steroids. "It shows what a powerful stimulant to muscle growth exercise is," he said. "It ought to reassure athletes that if they exercise and train properly, they will get big muscles."

**firestorm** · 10-11-2003, 02:14 AM

So Mudge let me get this straight.... If your running low on Test you don't have to buy it anymore. You just wait for homo with AIDS to leave a free clinic with a little vial in his hand and then roll em'- n ' run. Be sure to roll the boyfriend too,, he is holding the box of syringes. lol

**firestorm** · 10-11-2003, 02:21 AM

I like the article Mudge but I have to disagree with it. I think those docs need to re-try that test again. This time, don' limit it to a little bit of Test Cyp. bodybuilders stack as did the ones that used it as an excuse in court. (I saw that special on 20/20 years ago). So write the doctors back and tell them to add some d-bol, sustenon, Anadrol-250s and Decca (if they still make it). I'm not crazy and I experienced top knotch roid rages that any mega enhanced juicer would be proud of. I don't care what that test says, I experienced it 1st hand. I certainly didn't imagine all those incidents.

**Mudge** · 10-11-2003, 02:40 AM

I am willing to now go along with the statement that mood changes can happen, but I still feel they should be controllable. Test doesn't seem to affect me much in that dept other than positively, but fina has hit me a little bit, thankfully the aggression seems to do me very well in the gym.

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 01:41 AM

Mudge, I'll also bet your not taking 1/3 of what I used to take either. I'm telling you the amount has alot to do with it. I couldn't tell you today which one actually caused me to explode the way I did because I would be on 5 and 6 different drugs as one time. I know though when I took the anadrols I totally felt the difference. I know they were a major factor. I also took several at a time. I don't remember the exact doses though.

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 01:43 AM

I kinda miss those rages now that I think about it! boy it was nice to just let things go and get shit off my chest. Now I just keep my composure and sit on the chair. hahahahaha I'm just kidding man. this was a joke. I dont' miss them at all.

**Mudge** · 10-12-2003, 02:03 AM

I'm so damn passive it half way does me good, but I would agree dose plays a role. You can do HRT kind of doses or then you have 10-20x normal, and a quicky guess would tell me if something is massively out of whack it has consequences.

I think there is 25mg anadrol, but most is 50mg and 1-3 is the common dose per day. However some medical journals had suggestions of "no more than 10" or something of that effect. One woman had liver lesions after about 6 years on drol but she had a genetic liver issue, so why she was kept on for so long I dont know. Her case is the one often cited though when talking about liver toxicity.

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 02:52 AM

So in all I think it is safe to say that we both agree that the test mentioned above was either incomplete or biased.

**gr81** · 10-12-2003, 03:01 AM

actually fire I just happen to think that "roid rage" really only expresses itself in patients that alreay exhibit a predisposition to be angry,........... hint hint

ha ha j/k

It is hard to say b/c I am a relatively bad tempered person sometimes, I certainly am not cheery and bubbley so when I was runnin I would get going pretty good if things pissed me off. But on the flip side my best friend was runnin the same amount and he really had no roid rages to speak of. I do think it depends on the persons disposition in the first place and possibly a bit of self-fullfilling prophecy.. what do ya think?

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 03:17 AM

hahahaha that 1st line was great. I'm still laughing.
and yea I suppose what you say there could be part of it. A persons tollerance level too. Same with alcohol ya know. You have 6 shots of tequilla and I have 6 shots and one of us may be lying on the floor yet the other may not seemed phased. ya feel me?

**gr81** · 10-12-2003, 03:30 AM

no doubt. Everyone is different. it is too bad man, my tolerance level for everything is so f'n high man, it sucks

. I never drink but I could sit down and pound a fifth and probably a half rack before I get really drunk, maybe. I pop like a 60 mg Oxycotton and I am totally cool, same with everything else I have ever done, eatin mushrooms by the oz and shit. It doesn't make for a cheap night I tell ya what.

Maybe it is the Russian and Irish in me, haha. oh well

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 03:38 AM

naaaa I think it's the gangsta' Gman not the ruskie, mick origins. hahahahahaha I'm Italian/Irish

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 03:38 AM

Italian/Irish = Dumb/Drunk hahahaha just kidding. I don't drink. hehehehe

**gr81** · 10-12-2003, 03:52 AM

Irish baby yeah! Everyone tells me that the russ/irish combo is not very common. I am like a darker skinned redhead, very unique I have been told. thats right ladies

hey your italian so you got some of that mob shit in your backgroud at least, haha. you gotta love that.....oops, I guess that is a stereotype, we are hopeless!

**firestorm** · 10-12-2003, 04:01 AM

hahaha actually I can not tell a lie, there is some of that in my family as well as my wifes.

**Mudge** · 10-12-2003, 01:47 PM

Halotestin and cheque drops are the two that I remember people sometimes using directly for 'motivation,' cheque drops being used in boxing and such.

**rachelmstark** · 10-12-2003, 02:52 PM

High Mudge et al. I am new to thi site trying desperately to get my facts straight. Hoping you can help me one way or another.

I have a long time (5 years) 42 year old boyfrined who's 6'5" and about 250 lbs. Always been a workout maniac, actually thats what got us together as I too love to work out.

Problem is this... i have suspected him using steroids especially recently. When he was in his twenties he took them orally but said he quit. I notice a hard mass on his ass, seriously enlarged breats, very small testicals, baldness and most traumatizing...serious bouts of just being plain crazy/irrational (maybe roid rage?)

Now i have recently found out he's been with several women over the last three years and had problems...if you know what i mean. The two of us haven't but we've had a lot of practice.

To complicate matters, he is a cocaine sniffer about 10 grams a week and also takes cyopaite (sp?) some human growth hormone. The steriods he's on is durodelobin (sp?).

Bottom line is he's georgeuos, but seriously insecure or he wouln't be doing all this..he denies everything and I am tired of dealing with it. I've read you're chats and see that you are not convinced that seriods cause rage, irrational behavior etc but what do you think about the combo?

I love him desperately and just want to do everything I can to make sure he doesn't kick off. At a minimum I need some education.

Any advise/info?

**Mudge** · 10-12-2003, 03:10 PM

Honestly I think cocaine is far worse than any steroids, but if he is on durabolin as you say that would explain limp dick as well as hard shutdown of the nads, he needs some HCG 500iu twice a week to keep the balls in check. To avoid deca dick testosterone is highly suggested to go along with it.

If a man can't be honest with you and you've been with him for awhile I think thats a problem, period. If you've been dating for a couple months or something then I might not talk about my experimentation either, because that can bring alot of trouble down on him. But Cocaine? Gee whiz, maybe it sounds ridiculous to you but I fully believe steroids are tremendously safer to "play with."

If the hard mass on his ass is recent and there for 2-7 days then its probably a reaction to something he shot there recently. Unless its heavily discolored or doesn't go away he is probably ok.

Growth hormone is very expensive, I only know of a few brand names, unless you are talking about Cypionate which is testosterone not GH... The patent for hGH only recently expired so other companies are expected to start making it, previously it was more $ for companies as they had to pay royalties.

**rachelmstark** · 10-12-2003, 03:22 PM

You are a doll. Thanks for getting back to me. I guess I just gotta cut him loose its been five years. I think that's enough leeway. I agree with the cocaine vs. steroid opinion. But its the entire combo as well as the irrational and abusive behavior that concerns me. No feeling on roid rage other than its a myth

**Mudge** · 10-12-2003, 03:27 PM

I ran fina for a few weeks and noticed a mood change @ 100mg EOD, but for me its pretty mild and controllable. I think the longer someone is on, and the more they use, the more this can perhaps become a problem. So I will admit that I feel that mood changes can occur, fina is famous for it, again the more used and the longer the more likely someone may see something with it.

If telling him you have had enough is the only way to get him to at least come clean about stuff then maybe its the best thing for both, wether he comes clean or not is up to him. I find it weird that he hides steroid use but is in the open about coke? But again I assume that to you maybe its not so black and white and its just a matter of drugs period, which I can understand. For me though there has to be honesty in a relationship especially after so long... Better to be honest and disagree on something I think than to lie about it in hopes of having the other person not notice anything.

As much as it sucks, sometimes its the goodbyes we say in this life that help people the most, for both. If you cant sit down and say hey, be honest with me, then what do you have.

**rachelmstark** · 10-12-2003, 03:42 PM

Thanks. The clincher is that I had a cocaine problem (now resolved (thank god!)) so that was acceptable between the two of us. I really don't have a problem with steroids but it is DRAStically effecting his body and his sperm production and to be honest I'd like to have a child in this century.

Most of all is the mood swings I just never know which person he is going to be one moment to the next and its tough to live life that way.

I am so glad you were on-line today. You are a good man and keep up the good work!

Rach

**Mudge** · 10-12-2003, 03:56 PM

Thanks for the kudos, either way I hope things workout for the best...

I have a friend that did coke some years ago before he got married, he says he still thinks about it, and its things like that which kept me away from the stuff, then again I did acid several times and alot of people are afraid of that.

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