1/2MAN50AMAZING

thanks guys how much sus should i start iut with 500mg a week? also i forgot to tell you i dont know if it will matter but i have a prexisting gyno issue it was when i was fat i mean big as fuck! use to be 5'8 280lbs remember im now 5'9 202 in boxers and empty stomach. i got there doing a lot of cardio running 3 miles tae kwon do, wrestling 5 days a week at least 150 pushups and 600 crunches a day very little weight lifting (didnt have access or the money to join a gym) BUT with all the weight droped 85lbs total (use to be 195 during wrestling) My upper chest is very tight and tone but i have that little flap of skin that makes me look i have a pair of tits!! ive done just about every puchup you can think of diamond, knuckle, fingertip, bar pushups using pushupbars so your chest dips lower than the ground decline bench incline bench, dips evrything!!! it tightend it up that was it.... i havent done none of those excersies in a while do to the fact i work and go to school but now i want to get back into the game and come back with a vengince! ive been keeping my weight in check though thats one thing i do pretty good. i still have pepperoni nipples though and thats shit bothers me especially when one of my buddies comes up filcks them..... will the anti esto clear this shit up if i do a cycle? thank guys you have been a big help.

Robert Woodard

dangit

One thing I found about sust is that since it's got a mix of dif esters, then it's better to do it multiple times a week. But taking one 250mg shot twice a week should be fine.

I'd def hit the nolvadex if you're worried about bitch tits. I'm taking a 20mg tab of nolvadex a day and it works great for reducing bloat and lowering estrogen levels.

I think that gyno from being overweight and gyno from roids is a wee bit different though. When you get gyno from roids, your nips hurt and you get a hard mass under the nipples. It'll feel like a you've got a dime under them and it'll be hard.

Just eat clean and keep the bodyfat down and you should be fine. You shouldn't really show any signs at 500mg a week unless you're really prone to it. Remember that if you start off with nolvadex, then you have to run it the entire cycle or you'll get a rebound effect and you'll def get gyno

1/2MAN50AMAZING

hmmm you know a lot of people i talk to prefer clomid of nolva they say its more effective heck some of the suppliers are totally against using nolva and dont even carry it!

Robert Woodard

Mudge

Its an ongoing argument, I hate clomid in higher doses though, nolvadex rocks.

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dangit

Ummm... never heard of using clomid to stop gyno. Then again, I'm no expert by a long shot

Power Rabbit

yea nolva is the gyno stopper...though i hear some have good results with letro(femara)..

if your scared about estrogen run arimidex or femara during the cycle....expensive, but effective

BUSTINOUT

Like dangit said, test is test. Sust sucks IMHO. Stick with single esters. Primo is a waste for your goals. Unless you are a girl that is.

BUSTINOUT

Watch cholesterol while on arimidex.

Mudge

Letro is even more dangerous than arimidex, it is apparently significantly better, to the point some people induce temporary impotence from shutting down estrogen excessively. I ordered some last week.

Mudge

They are both SERMs, but nolvadex would be preferable. I just plain dont like clomid for anything. Nolvadex has been shown to suppress IGF levels which is "bad," but to such an insignificant extent that I am willing to use it over clomid any day.

BUSTINOUT

Well we all know you have the estrogen to spare. lol

ST240

test only would be good for a first timer? does that mean sust only would be good too? how long should the (test) cycle last

dangit

The only reason I don't lean towards sust is that it's a blend of short and longer estors and if I were going to use it, then it would be like every 2 days to get the benefits of the short acting esters. I think sust is good for starting a cycle and taken every 2 days for a few weeks, then to switch over to enathate or something.

Straight enathate is usually cheaper so why not just go with that If you do sust like only once a week, then I don't think it's worth the extra money.

I've seen people make good gains on sust only cycles too though, so it does work. I just think it's not worth paying the extra money for it.

dangit

oh, I've done a sust cycle only cycle before, an enathate only cycle before and now I'm doing a prop only cycle.

They're all test and they all seem to work the same. Some just kick in quicker then others and some are more of a pain in the ass (like the prop since you have to inject more often).

ST240

thanks dangit
how often does enan have to be shot?

Mudge

Enanthate is often shot once a week due to its 10.5 day active half life, but the true half life is 5 days. I am running cypionate which is slightly longer lasting, and I shoot it E4D, partly by neccessity.

ST240

ok so if i did 300 mg per week for 10 weeks of just test enan what should my post cycle look like (im not totally clueless i know roughly what to do im just looking for opinions)

dangit

Yeah, I shoot enathate every 3-4 days just because I'm used to shooting more often, but I've seen tons of people only shoot once a week.

I've heard people say that if you shoot it more often then the concentrations stay more constant in your bloodstream instead of spiking up and then going down, but I don't think it's all that bad.

I just like shooting twice a week, then I only have to put half as much in the seringe and if I'm stacking it with something, then I'm not shooting a huge amount of juice all at once in a bodypart.

Mudge

Yep, blood levels are better with more frequent injections. After all, if you are waiting for blood levels to get to only 35/40% of what they were before you shoot again, that seems rather lame. This is also one of the reasons it takes 5 weeks or so for enanthate to really show real results, it takes so damn long for blood levels to peak if you keep letting the level hit the floor.

ST240, run a post cycle like any other, there is a sticky at the top. PCT is simple unless you run into complications, like "where are my nuts" syndrome.

ST240

uh oh.... is it a big crisis if i cant get my hands on any HCG? think i could pull it off with nolva alone?

dangit

I've done Nolva alone and it's worked for me. Now everyone is diffrent though. I've never used HCG. I've tried clomid too.

There's a lot of talk of weather Nolvadex is as good as Clomid post recovery so it goes to personal preference.

I've done a few cycles and never bothered with post recovery too. Wasn't very bright, but it turned out okay... just a little bit longer for the boys to do their magic again My gf was a wee bit pissed at me and thought she just wasn't doing it for me anymore... ha ha...

Mudge

You could recover with nothing if you wanted, it just takes longer. Thats what the HCG is good at.

I dont get nad shrinkage all that fast without certain compounds, say tren, but everyone is different. Some people using PH compounds get it within weeks, which to me is insane because it takes months for test to hit me like that.

ST240

yeah but if you recover with nothing your test levels are low for so long that you would basically lose all your gains wouldnt you?

ST240

ive heard sooo many ppl say how horrible the sides are from clomid so im just gonna stay right clear of it

Mudge

Fair chance of it, all the more reason to not do deca, not by itself and NOT in these massive gram a week gear newbie doses, thats insane. Deca doesn't just shut down test production but likely progestin too, which is supposedly why libido is so screwed up with this drug (chemical castration of choice).

A 22 year old who observed traditional protocols with PCT and deca in his cycle, had test levels on the floor for 11 months after his cycle had ended. It wasn't until he used some pretty heavy HCG + nolvadex that he started to normalize again. I dont know the exact details of his PCT after the fact, but he is still on the boards, the advice he received was from a doctor.

ST240

i know but im talking about me doing 300 mg of test per week for 10 weeks

Mudge

I know, same thing with test though in terms of no drugs vs drugs for PCT. HCG just makes things faster/easier/better/whatever.

With such a low dose of test though you may very well be fine. "Complete" shutdown if there is such a thing, seems to come from extended use and higher doses, maybe 700mg or so a week +, complete at least meaning noticeable atrophy if not truly complete. When your nuts dissapear in 2 weeks or so, thats pretty bad.

ST240

if my nuts disappear at 300 mg per week in 2 weeks i will be greatly disappointed in myself haha

anyways thanks mudge and dangit for the info

this is what im shootin at

300mg of test enan for 10 weeks
40mg of nolva per day for 2 weeks
30mg of nolva per day for 2 weeks

sound ok?

Mudge

I suspect you wont notice anything at all any time soon, at the worst maybe 5 weeks in. I dont know what it is about PHs that hit people like that, maybe they are jerking it 15 times a day I dont know.

30/20 for nolva sounds good, 40/30 is probably overkill for such a cycle. I might even suggest just going longer instead of using "more," studies point that longer is better, not more dose.

ST240

is test cyp cheaper? how often do you gotta stick yourself with that